Traveller Universe Expansion

[Ackehece]

T5 is a new era (OTU) with new technologies and new places to go


so some thoughts on role play, new races, and new places

1. Psionic Races - more of them?
2. Pocket Universe Empires
3. Quantum Bound Races
4. Temperature - Cold Races, Hot Races
5. Not So Lost Ancients
6. Known Races Alliance against big outside threat
7. Hivers Rule all
8. Virus is now your friend
9. Jump 1 to 3 routes dominated by preprogrammed collector ships (as we know virus is capable of navigating....)

 

[pendragonman]

T5 is a new era with new technologies and new places to go

Not a new era, it is "settingless". Same eras previously covered are compatible with some updating of rules, with a continuum of technologies so we can go higher if we want.

 

[Nathan Brazil]

1. Psionic Races - more of them?
2. Pocket Universe Empires
3. Quantum Bound Races
4. Temperature - Cold Races, Hot Races
5. Not So Lost Ancients
6. Known Races Alliance against big outside threat
7. Hivers Rule all
8. Virus is now your friend
9. Jump 1 to 3 routes dominated by preprogrammed collector ships (as we know virus is capable of navigating....)

Your implication of new era implies Galaxiad yes?

Psionic Races? Yes sure but with good explanations as to why this advantage does not make them the most prolific/dominant race in the area.
Pocket Universe Empires? Maybe not, look at the TL needed to create. If they were not created, how were they found? If they can be pinched off ala Secret of the Ancients, TL again. Tactically if it is small enough, a pocket universe leaves little space to hide in a war?
Quantum Bound Races? Please clarify
Temperature - Cold Races, Hot Races, Sure, but where are they in 1105?
Not So Lost Ancients - No. If Galaxiad is TL 21, the Ancients are still too powerful to deal with on a regular basis.
Known Races Alliance against big outside threat - OK
Hivers Rule all - Maybe. Resolve the current situation with the Second Rule of Man (SRoM) with the destruction of the Solomani Imperium. Also, the Hivers must maintain secrecy or both the Freedom League and the SRoM will be a bit uppity to find they were both used as experiments.
Virus is now your friend - By 1900 they should be.
Jump 1 to 3 routes dominated by preprogrammed collector ships (as we know virus is capable of navigating....) - What a boring job, like being an xBoat pilot. Might drive Virus insane again.

 

[Ackehece]

Just thoughts...thoughts.. so what do you see as possible going forward in the OTU.

As for ancients, do you think all precursors were of higher Tech level?

 

[robject]

As for ancients, do you think all precursors were of higher Tech level?

Fun topics. Thanks for starting this!

"No". Just about every world which can support life, has developed (long ago) or will develop (far in the future) intelligent life, and will die out before it can build interstellar ships, millions of years before it could meet anyone else. Within a certain volume of the galaxy (call it 4 x 4 sectors, or call it anything you like), each race typically develops millions of years after the preceding intelligent race developed, and millions of years before the next race develops.

That Charted Space has a sudden flowering of Major Races simultaneously can only be explained by the meddling of the Ancients.

There were two other known sophonts who achieved high technology:

The Primordials, which may have simply gone extinct, or may have reached Singularity. They predated the Ancients by 1D million years, and reached at least high enough to pinch off small (mainworld-only) pocket universes. The only canon information we have on them is in Knightfall, which itself is not entirely trustworthy regarding them.

The Kursae, which post-date the Ancients by 100,000 years, reached into the TL20s before dying out. They arguably did not develop the jump drive, but apparently did develop Hop.

 

[mike wightman]

Fun topics. Thanks for starting this!

Isn't it just

That Charted Space has a sudden flowering of Major Races simultaneously can only be explained by the meddling of the Ancients.

It could also be explained by meddling by races that pre-date the Ancients; who seeded the galaxy with psionic potential that would result in the droyne and then a supergenius droyne?

The most interesting thing I have read about starfaring races that pre-date grandfather is in the MT Referee's Manual - the first starfarers.

We place the age of the universe at more than fifteen
billion years.
The oldest stars in Charted Space are dim red dwarfs
some ten billion years old
Intelligent life first appeared in Charted Space more than
two billion years ago
Intelligent life first began sublight travel between the
stars more than a billion years ago. Short-lived beings
found sublight travel tedious and frustrating and contented
themselves with confinement to a few star systems. Longer
lived races ranged far and wide using generation ships,
cold sleep, and even electronic personality transfers.
The first jump drive was an unrealized dream until only
300,000 years ago. By a fluke of evolution, a single
supergenius was born to the pastoral Droyne, and under
his leadership this ancient race travelled extensively
throughout a region nearly 1000 parsecs across. The race
worked wonders throughout Charted Space and then
destroyed themselves in a wide-ranging war that shattered
worlds and destroyed civilizations
Today, the Droyne live in independent communities on
many separate worlds. They avoid entanglements and
political disputes; they live peacefully with their neighbours;
and their hand-built jump drives are the best that can be
found anywhere.

We know that they didn't invent jump drive - that was grandfather (and note the Kursae may have invented hop but only after grandfather had made the multiple dimensions of jump space accessible ) - but they did have methods for travelling from system to system. STL (probably at high relativistic speed) and electronic personality transfer interest me; you would have to send your receiver station and 'body maker' via STL first, or just send the machines with the stored personality wafers and the body makers. And these are just the old races in the region we now call Charted Space. There could be races that evolved near the galactic core, races on the other side of the galaxy, even races from other galaxies.
I have my own pet theories for MTU (explaining psionics, jump discovery by grandfather, what the empress wave really is) - chances are Marc already has his own ideas.

 

[robject]

chances are Marc already has his own ideas.

Without a doubt.

On the other hand, Marc's Method is to let everyone speculate and brainstorm, then he revises his own plans by picking the best speculations that help him.

 

[77topaz]

Not a new era, it is "settingless". Same eras previously covered are compatible with some updating of rules, with a continuum of technologies so we can go higher if we want.

T5 isn't entirely settingless, it has been implied that a new Galaxiad (~1900 Imperial) setting will be designed.

 

[Ackehece]

I agree that ancient does not mean higher tech - I was just pointing that idea out as we tend to lean that way.

so post OTU Galaxaid is post TNE-virus

Do you feel this means less automation (hard to go less) or more?

Will the imperial descendants trust AI or hate it with even more of a passion
both are likely scenarios​

I feel it really depends on how the final collapse ended with virus and how the recovery came about.
(AKA TNE needs and endstory )

AI Player Characters?
Fully Autonomous Ships?
Planets of AI with no organic life?

 

[Nathan Brazil]

Fun topics. Thanks for starting this!

"No". Just about every world which can support life, has developed (long ago) or will develop (far in the future) intelligent life, and will die out before it can build interstellar ships, millions of years before it could meet anyone else. Within a certain volume of the galaxy (call it 4 x 4 sectors, or call it anything you like), each race typically develops millions of years after the preceding intelligent race developed, and millions of years before the next race develops.

That Charted Space has a sudden flowering of Major Races simultaneously can only be explained by the meddling of the Ancients.

I agree with robject's view, but would like to add three things.

• In a campaign we will only care about if they or their artifacts have impact to the galaxy beyond their own star system(or at least players can have them). Or sophonts transplanted or kidnapped or whatnot.
• It may be better to further detail the Primordials and Kursae before going on to a new species of "Ancients". They are an untapped resource and local.
• If you accept the Kardashev scale and existential danger stuff, there may not be too many civs out there that qualify as "Ancients", period. Humans in Galaxiad I do not forsee as being more humane or ethical (like a Star Trek UFP), and technologywise make it to TL21? They are Scrubbing at TL D (Agent of the Imperium), and True Scrubbing is a TL or two away..If the universe is driven by economics with finite resources is your civ going to "share"?

 

[Nathan Brazil]

I feel it really depends on how the final collapse ended with virus and how the recovery came about.
(AKA TNE needs and endstory )

AI Player Characters?
Fully Autonomous Ships?
Planets of AI with no organic life?

Do you mean Virus and the Gods of Tunder? (Go MLPoD :devil While not complete, it seems the other Civs in 1248 are leaning toward acceptance of Cyms if not already there.

 

[mike wightman]

(AKA TNE needs and endstory )

It has one, like it or loathe it, in the form of the 1248 setting material produced for T20

 

[robject]

It has one, like it or loathe it, in the form of the 1248 setting material produced for T20

Mike's right, and 1248 is canonical IIRC. I don't know if I like it or not, but at least we have "closure", trading one big problem for a possibly-less-problematic big problem. Apparently, Virus was always a tad messier in implementation than on paper, and there are scars.

Traveller5 Core Rulebook is rules neutral with setting notes in sidebars, like MegaTraveller. The Traveller Book, meanwhile, bunches setting material in the back of the book. LBBs 1-3 have no setting information.

As for automation: I think robots are ubiquitous to the point of not being noticed. Underscoring this are the synthetic people which are for all intents and purposes engineered life. But on the other end, note that T5 allows "robots" to be put through the character generation process.

Finally, at TL16 I think Traveller5 has artificial intelligence. Thus a starship might talk back to you, have hobbies on the side, and be able to plot its own jump course. Makhidkarun, in whatever forms still exist, might have crewless freighters.

I suppose the Cyms are somehow absorbed into this continuum of clones, synthetics, organics, and robots proper.

 

[Ackehece]

Mike's right, and 1248 is canonical IIRC. I don't know if I like it or not, but at least we have "closure", trading one big problem for a possibly-less-problematic big problem. Apparently, Virus was always a tad messier in implementation than on paper, and there are scars....

so.... I need to pick up T20? for Gal background? Ok. FFE here I come!

 

[robject]

so.... I need to pick up T20? for Gal background? Ok. FFE here I come!

Not necessarily - again, quite a lot could happen in +700 years. For example, 2016 versus 1316, 1316 versus 616, and 616 versus 116.

At the risk of devolving, here's what our history is like in 700 year chunks.

14th century. Political and natural disaster and black death ravaged Europe, as well as the four khanates of the Mongolian Empire. Consequently, the Mongol court was driven out of China and retreated to Mongolia, the Ilkhanate collapsed in Persia, the Chaghatayid dissolved into two parts, and the Golden Horde lost its position as great power in Eastern Europe. The transition from the Medieval Warm Period to the Little Ice Age.

7th century. The Muslim conquests began with the unification of Arabia by Muhammad starting in 622. In the Iberian Peninsula, the 7th century was the Siglo de Concilios, that is, century of councils, referring to the Councils of Toledo. Harsha united Northern India, which had reverted to small republics and states after the fall of the Gupta Empire in the 6th century. In China, the Sui dynasty was replaced by the Tang dynasty, which set up its military bases from Korea to Central Asia, and was next to the Arabian later. China began to reach its height. Silla allied itself with the Tang Dynasty, subjugating Baekje and defeating Goguryeo to unite the Korean Peninsula under one ruler. The Asuka period persisted in Japan throughout the 7th century.

1st century BC. In the course of the century all the remaining independent lands surrounding the Mediterranean were steadily brought under Roman control, being ruled either directly under governors or through puppet kings appointed by Rome. The Roman state itself was plunged into civil war several times, finally resulting in the marginalization of its 500-year-old republic, and the embodiment of total state power in a single man—the emperor. In the eastern mainland, the Han Dynasty began to decline and the court of China was in chaos in the latter half of this century. Trapped in a difficult situation, the Xiongnu had to begin emigration to the west or attach themselves to the Han.

 

[Ackehece]

hmmm more errata.... Technology-1 chart page 502 - Collector is TL 18


So we are assuming ubiquitous AI

Data casters are available at TL10+... used to send virus (common tactic now?)

so what other assumptions can we make?


xboats are hop 1 at the very least... of course thus allowing more centralization of control.
This might lead to a lessening of nobles power (as was the case on earth. With greater centralization of power nobles lost ground in power struggles.

Tractor/Pressor Beams

Black Globe Beta variant
Black Globe Alpha common.

Fusion Rifles...
Prototype personal dampers and disrupters - the battle fields of the high end polities would be damn scary.

Grav scramblers? Lots of potential change here...

Early model Antimatter plants. They are TL18 so prototype stage (TL16) or early (TL17) would exist potentially

and holy moly.... Skip drive is potentially available... Skip 1 is TL 20 so TL 18 would be required for experimental! it would be skip 0 so it would do 1/2 the distance Skip 1 would do... 50 lights years is nothing to sneeze at....
(hows that for an XBoat...)

something we have not yet discussed... TL16 is Jump7!

 

[Nathan Brazil]

so.... I need to pick up T20? for Gal background? Ok. FFE here I come!

For the history to 1248 for background, you will need TNE CDROM-2

I do not have the T20 CDROM, I have the printed T20 books and PDFs when they came out. They do not have Galaxiad material. Does one of the new PDFs have Galaxiad stuff?

 

[aramis]

Mike's right, and 1248 is canonical IIRC. I don't know if I like it or not, but at least we have "closure", trading one big problem for a possibly-less-problematic big problem. Apparently, Virus was always a tad messier in implementation than on paper, and there are scars.

Traveller5 Core Rulebook is rules neutral with setting notes in sidebars, like MegaTraveller. The Traveller Book, meanwhile, bunches setting material in the back of the book. LBBs 1-3 have no setting information.

As for automation: I think robots are ubiquitous to the point of not being noticed. Underscoring this are the synthetic people which are for all intents and purposes engineered life. But on the other end, note that T5 allows "robots" to be put through the character generation process.

Finally, at TL16 I think Traveller5 has artificial intelligence. Thus a starship might talk back to you, have hobbies on the side, and be able to plot its own jump course. Makhidkarun, in whatever forms still exist, might have crewless freighters.

I suppose the Cyms are somehow absorbed into this continuum of clones, synthetics, organics, and robots proper.

The 3LBBs have no prosaic setting information, but a lot baked into the tables.

 

[Ackehece]

For an interesting take on Empire change.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/resources/idt-95a417ab-0982-4512-b550-20d68fd53f87

It sounds like the media (and much of the population) regrets their country's economic and social focus change. Trade within the commonwealth did not bring the social obligations that political marriage with their neighbours did.
.

 

[maksimsmelchak]

Not necessarily - again, quite a lot could happen in +700 years. For example, 2016 versus 1316, 1316 versus 616, and 616 versus 116.

At the risk of devolving, here's what our history is like in 700 year chunks.

14th century. Political and natural disaster and black death ravaged Europe, as well as the four khanates of the Mongolian Empire. Consequently, the Mongol court was driven out of China and retreated to Mongolia, the Ilkhanate collapsed in Persia, the Chaghatayid dissolved into two parts, and the Golden Horde lost its position as great power in Eastern Europe. The transition from the Medieval Warm Period to the Little Ice Age.

7th century. The Muslim conquests began with the unification of Arabia by Muhammad starting in 622. In the Iberian Peninsula, the 7th century was the Siglo de Concilios, that is, century of councils, referring to the Councils of Toledo. Harsha united Northern India, which had reverted to small republics and states after the fall of the Gupta Empire in the 6th century. In China, the Sui dynasty was replaced by the Tang dynasty, which set up its military bases from Korea to Central Asia, and was next to the Arabian later. China began to reach its height. Silla allied itself with the Tang Dynasty, subjugating Baekje and defeating Goguryeo to unite the Korean Peninsula under one ruler. The Asuka period persisted in Japan throughout the 7th century.

1st century BC. In the course of the century all the remaining independent lands surrounding the Mediterranean were steadily brought under Roman control, being ruled either directly under governors or through puppet kings appointed by Rome. The Roman state itself was plunged into civil war several times, finally resulting in the marginalization of its 500-year-old republic, and the embodiment of total state power in a single man—the emperor. In the eastern mainland, the Han Dynasty began to decline and the court of China was in chaos in the latter half of this century. Trapped in a difficult situation, the Xiongnu had to begin emigration to the west or attach themselves to the Han.

The more I think about, 100-year chunks seems pretty reasonable.

I have been brainstorming story arc to lead in-between 1200 and 1900.

I wish that the Wiki had better timelines. I love's Don timeline.

Shalom,
Maksim-Smelchak.