TNE FF&S Mass Driver Design: Set-up

[snrdg082102]

I'm very confused with part of Mass Driver Step H. Set-up.

Question 1. Does towed = carriage from Step A-5?

Question 2. Is a self-propelled weapon = vehicle mount or self-propelled = carriage/towed mount?

Question 3 has a couple of questions based on the each line item in Step H.

Are vehicle mounted weapons included in the "all guns must be set up before conducting indirect fire" requirement?

If towed = carriage mount then the Set-up formulas:
Indirect Fire = Bore Size x 8
Direct Fire = Bore Size x 4

A self-propelled gun's Set-up formulas:

Indirect Fire with Land Navigation Systems < TL 8 = Bore Size x 4
Indirect Fire with Land Navigation Systems TL 8+ = Bore Size x 2
Direct Fire = ?

Vehicle Set-up formulas:
Indirect Fire = ?
Direct Fire = None?

Running late for an appointment so this might be continued later

 

[shield]

I can do Q1 & 2

Q1 Towed does equal carriage mounted.
Q2 Self propelled is vehicle mounted
Q3 will have to wait until I have FF&S infront of me

 

[snrdg082102]

I can do Q1 & 2

Q1 Towed does equal carriage mounted.
Q2 Self propelled is vehicle mounted
Q3 will have to wait until I have FF&S in front of me

Top of the Morning (PDT or close facsimile) shield,

I wish I had managed my time better, the post needs editing the "running late for an appointment so this might be continued later" should have been at the end and badly miss spelled vehicle. Edit coming up.

While Question 1 and Question 2 has not stopped my progress I'm glad to know I was on track with them.

Question 3 is kind of messy, but I put the formulas in as stated by the text. I have also dug out and dusted off my T4 FF&S and CT: Striker Book 3 to see if I can get unconfused.

From T4 FF&S MD Set-Up Time p. 46

Indirect Fire:
Towed guns = Bore size (cm) x 40
Mortars = Bore size (cm) x 20
Vehicle mounted = Bore size (cm) x 20
Vehicle mounted with TL 8+ Land Nav System = Bore size (cm) x 10

Direct Fire
Towed guns = Bore size (cm) x 20
Vehicle mounted = Do not need to be set up and can fire whenever motionless.
The ability of the vehicle to fire while moving is determined by the gun's stabilization system.

Except for the numbers and possibly including mortar, I think T4 clearly defined Set-up Time.

 

[shield]

I'm very confused with part of Mass Driver Step H. Set-up.

Question 1. Does towed = carriage from Step A-5?

Question 2. Is a self-propelled weapon = vehicle mount or self-propelled = carriage/towed mount?

Question 3 has a couple of questions based on the each line item in Step H.

Are vehicle mounted weapons included in the "all guns must be set up before conducting indirect fire" requirement?

If towed = carriage mount then the Set-up formulas:
Indirect Fire = Bore Size x 8
Direct Fire = Bore Size x 4

A self-propelled gun's Set-up formulas:

Indirect Fire with Land Navigation Systems < TL 8 = Bore Size x 4
Indirect Fire with Land Navigation Systems TL 8+ = Bore Size x 2
Direct Fire = ?

Vehicle Set-up formulas:
Indirect Fire = ?
Direct Fire = None?

Running late for an appointment so this might be continued later

Yes all guns require set up for indirect fire and all towed weapons require set up for direct and indirect fire.

Your formulas for indirect fire towed wepon are correct.
Your formulas for indirect fire from a self propelled system are correct.
A vehicle mounted weapon is self propelled.

vehicle mounted weapons in direct fire mode take zero set up time.

 

[whartung]

The basic premise they're trying to model here is that towed guns need to unlimbered (i.e. removed from the truck or whatever, moved in to place, etc.), then properly set up in terms of anchoring the gun, getting all of the bits and parts set up etc.

Mortars are easier to set up than a towed gun.

A vehicle might do something like ready ammunition, lower stabilizers, etc.

The final part of set up is not just preparing the gun, but locating it. Especially a battery of guns they need to know where they are in relation to everything else. Ideally with something like GPS etc, that should be relatively quick. But clearly, that's part of the whole setup process for indirect fire.

Direct fire doesn't have that location step -- just point it at the target and blast away, but it will have the unlimbering aspect for a towed gun.

 

[snrdg082102]

Yes all guns require set up for indirect fire and all towed weapons require set up for direct and indirect fire.

Your formulas for indirect fire towed weapon are correct.
Your formulas for indirect fire from a self propelled system are correct.
A vehicle mounted weapon is self propelled.

vehicle mounted weapons in direct fire mode take zero set up time.

Thanks shield for getting back with more details to answer my questions about Mass Driver Set-Up. The answers have helped clear up the fog I was under.

While technically correct that a vehicle mounted weapon is self-propelled the military has a different view. Usually a self-propelled (SP) weapon is an indirect fire weapon, artillery piece, mounted on the vehicle instead of being pulled/towed behind. There is a big problem if a SP weapon is employed in the direct fire mode, of course when the hit, even a near miss, they do a wonderful job. The main gun on an Abram's is not considered to be self-propelled being designed as a direct fire weapon that can be employed as an indirect fire weapon.

 

[snrdg082102]

The basic premise they're trying to model here is that towed guns need to unlimbered (i.e. removed from the truck or whatever, moved in to place, etc.), then properly set up in terms of anchoring the gun, getting all of the bits and parts set up etc.

Mortars are easier to set up than a towed gun.

A vehicle might do something like ready ammunition, lower stabilizers, etc.

The final part of set up is not just preparing the gun, but locating it. Especially a battery of guns they need to know where they are in relation to everything else. Ideally with something like GPS etc, that should be relatively quick. But clearly, that's part of the whole setup process for indirect fire.

Direct fire doesn't have that location step -- just point it at the target and blast away, but it will have the unlimbering aspect for a towed gun.

Afternoon whartung,

Thanks for the additional details about TNE FF&S MD Set-up.

I agree that a towed gun, like the M119A1 105-mm lightweight gun, takes the longest to set-up, for both indirect and direct fire, based on all the steps to go from being hauled into place and then delivering a package of hurt down range to ruin the other guy's day.

A Self-propelled (SP) weapon, like the M109 155-mm howitzer, takes less time to set-up for indirect fire since the vehicle stops, disengage the travel hook, get the fire commands, load, and fire. Of course if the SP has Land Nav system then the time gets a bit quicker. To set-up for direct fire would be a little longer than the main gun on a MBT, especially if the SP has to stop moving. Of course an SP firing directly at a target means the crew is having a very bad day .

The Abrams acting as an indirect fire platform is only slightly faster than a SP.

Mortars, either carried by the troops or a vehicle, would take the least amount of time to set-up for indirect fire. Being used as direct fire weapons means the enemy is way too close.

Again thank-you for the assistance.