I wrote this up a while ago to help me with understanding Characteristics.
Hope you can use it.
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Characteristics
Hope you can use it.
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Characteristics
General This could help with understanding Characteristics...
- Thread starter Spinward Scout
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mike wightman
SOC-14 10K
Education does not grant wisdom...
wisdom comes from critical thinking (Int perhaps?) and experience...
wisdom comes from critical thinking (Int perhaps?) and experience...
Condottiere
SOC-14 5K
It's a holistic trait.
Intellect, Wisdom, and Education are all three different things.
(This is why some people can be educated beyond their intelligence
). For games like D&D and others that have separate INT & WIS scores, I always make sure that I call INT = "Intellect" and make actual "Intelligence" a derived secondary statistic based on a combination of the Intellect & Wisdom scores. (Thus, in D&D for example, an average Intellect / high Wisdom Cleric could be much more "intelligent" than a high Intellect / low-average Wisdom Wizard).
From D&D to Traveller, Wisdom is a separate trait. Wisdom would have Insight from Education and Wits, Intuition, & Awareness from Intellect. That's kind of based on the Skills that use Wisdom as their base Trait.
For example, the smart fool or wise simpleton when Int. & Wis. are separated by a big enough gap.
I remember reading about extra Abilities in older D&D products and Dragon magazine and considering if I should use them or not, but right now Traveller (20) is the only RPG that I use more than the base 6 Abilities Str, Dex, Con, Int, Wis, & Chr, with Soc & Edu.
For example, the smart fool or wise simpleton when Int. & Wis. are separated by a big enough gap.
I remember reading about extra Abilities in older D&D products and Dragon magazine and considering if I should use them or not, but right now Traveller (20) is the only RPG that I use more than the base 6 Abilities Str, Dex, Con, Int, Wis, & Chr, with Soc & Edu.
Condottiere
SOC-14 5K
Sub characteristics.
Either a combination of other characteristics, devolved from a single characteristic, or created separately.
Either a combination of other characteristics, devolved from a single characteristic, or created separately.
You refute your own argument, what is experience other than education?
Also critical thinking is also a learned skill....
kilemall
SOC-14 5K
I tend to use them in a very different way than the base definition. EDU as database of taught knowledge and problem solving plus social standing, INT to do/create/figure out something new and ‘CPU’ and SOC as emotional intelligence.
For the physical stats I use them as indicators for damage as to what medical problems present to the medic. Since I do hit location, STR for instance will translate to muscle or bone damage on an arm or leg, possibly heart for chest hits. DEX is nervous system/autonomous function, END is digestive/immune system/liver and possible infection.
For the physical stats I use them as indicators for damage as to what medical problems present to the medic. Since I do hit location, STR for instance will translate to muscle or bone damage on an arm or leg, possibly heart for chest hits. DEX is nervous system/autonomous function, END is digestive/immune system/liver and possible infection.
You beat me to it. Learning from Experience is definitely Education. You are Learning...
Critical Thinking throws me.
Is analysis a type of reasoning? Or do you learn how to analyze? My Systems Analysis class in college showed me how to analyze systems. So I learned how, right? Or can I analyze intuitively?
I'm definitely going to have to look at this differently. The mind boggles at this one.
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Consider this to basic places one receives education in Critical thinking is in English (primary language) and Geometry classes, both teach the system of making and proving arguments.... Though to be honest a certain amount of native intelligence is required for both of those routes...
Timerover51
SOC-14 5K
The problem I have always seen with Intelligence and Wisdom, is that really depends on the player, and not what the dice roll up. The same holds true for Education. I once was in a Morrow Project game where the kid running the game gave me a demolition set, and freaked out when I promptly pulled out my demolition reference card and started determining what I should use to take down a locked door, if needed. He was used to player, who according the die roll had demolition knowledge but really did not have the foggiest idea of what to do with a charge set.
Condottiere
SOC-14 5K
I can think of a number of interesting concepts, such as epiphany and out of the box thinking.
Either of which could be described as a spark, meaning the answer came out of nowhere, or organic, in that you apply intelligence, experience and/or random observations.
Either of which could be described as a spark, meaning the answer came out of nowhere, or organic, in that you apply intelligence, experience and/or random observations.
mike wightman
SOC-14 10K
Context.
Education in Traveller means school/college/academy/correspondence course etc.
You can become ridiculously well educated by reading, watching instructional videos and the like, but fail every time you try to actually do something because you lack the real world experience.
Yes and no. You can be taught critical thinking, you can do a degree in it, you can gain a doctorate, and never apply a single thing due to your own personal, social and cultural biases.
Board rules prevent further discussion.
mike wightman
SOC-14 10K
No, if it were defined as such in Traveller then your Edu stat would increase with each skill you gain. Edu represents all the stuff you "learn" due to study.
Wikipedia
"Critical thinking is the analysis of available facts, evidence, observations, and arguments in order to form a judgement by the application of rational, skeptical, and unbiased analyses and evaluation"
You have to ignore your own personal, societal and cultural biases and just consider "facts, evidence, observations,"
mike wightman
SOC-14 10K
Condottiere
SOC-14 5K
Sure, the process of 'Gaining Experience' is a part of what Education is, but in Traveller Education is based on a 'Formal Education' in a school and/or university or a home school or self study situation.
In T20, I roll 3d6 for 3-18 range with a -4 to +4 modifier to Education. a low Edu could mean the character has a learning disability or a delinquent who spent their time doing other things rather than learning stuff in school. A high Edu could be someone who studied really hard or found it easy to soak up lots of information and/or went to higher education, like a university.
Experience is learning how to do things by trial and error or being trained/taught/apprenticed by another. This is where the Skills, Feats, Combat Ability, Saving Throws, and similar things come from.
so it would be possible to have a low Edu character be trained as a Ships Engineer, they just wouldn't be as good as a character with an average or high Edu score. For example an Engineer on a Tramp Trader who barely keeps the ship running, but also a trickster playing pranks on the other crew, has an amazing holo-vid collection of every planet visited, and somehow has an uncanny way of talking the crew out of trouble when there is a bar fight.
It's also possible to have someone with little life experience but with a high Edu. This character might have Skills focused on their Education but average or even terrible at things outside of what they were educated on. For example an Engineer who got a degree in engineering and then went to an Engineering Trade School for practical experience would be an amazing Engineer, but be awful at interacting with others or just kind of indifferent to anything not having to do with engineering or just a narrow band of interests outside of anything Engineering, maybe only interests that intersect with Engineering.
Just my Cr0.2 on the subject.
I remember coming across sub abilities for the ability scores for AD&D and how they affected different things that the main ability didn't really cover. I really thought about using some of them because they were interesting, but being lazy stayed with the basic abilities.
In T20, I roll 3d6 for 3-18 range with a -4 to +4 modifier to Education. a low Edu could mean the character has a learning disability or a delinquent who spent their time doing other things rather than learning stuff in school. A high Edu could be someone who studied really hard or found it easy to soak up lots of information and/or went to higher education, like a university.
Experience is learning how to do things by trial and error or being trained/taught/apprenticed by another. This is where the Skills, Feats, Combat Ability, Saving Throws, and similar things come from.
so it would be possible to have a low Edu character be trained as a Ships Engineer, they just wouldn't be as good as a character with an average or high Edu score. For example an Engineer on a Tramp Trader who barely keeps the ship running, but also a trickster playing pranks on the other crew, has an amazing holo-vid collection of every planet visited, and somehow has an uncanny way of talking the crew out of trouble when there is a bar fight.
It's also possible to have someone with little life experience but with a high Edu. This character might have Skills focused on their Education but average or even terrible at things outside of what they were educated on. For example an Engineer who got a degree in engineering and then went to an Engineering Trade School for practical experience would be an amazing Engineer, but be awful at interacting with others or just kind of indifferent to anything not having to do with engineering or just a narrow band of interests outside of anything Engineering, maybe only interests that intersect with Engineering.
Just my Cr0.2 on the subject.
I remember coming across sub abilities for the ability scores for AD&D and how they affected different things that the main ability didn't really cover. I really thought about using some of them because they were interesting, but being lazy stayed with the basic abilities.
By that take then Edu would automatically increase with age also.
Hum consider the Int+Edu skill limit....
Also in Traveller you roll Edu randomly. Consider the breadth of attributes as described, pigeon holing it as only one thing is probably not the best idea. Honestly in games I give the players the choice between Int and Edu for a lot of rolls that could be covered by either.
Well we have a much different view of education then. Knowing stuff isn't education, Knowing stuff and applying it functionally is.
Yep. EDU for a "what, if anything, does my character know about this?" angle, INT for a "even if the character has no info, can they figure it out from first principles?" one.
I also like the idea of using # of terms of service as a DM to know relevant info from experience.
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