Here's a little tidbit of a weapon that I've never heard of until just last night;
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1xh2tfZrhB0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1xh2tfZrhB0
The infamous LAG
- Thread starter Blue Ghost
- Start date
Can you ship-mount that on a dorsal pop-out turret?
iron warrior
SOC-12
Was the LAC a 20mm weapon? Have a look at this:
http://world.guns.ru/grenade/gl29-e.htm
http://world.guns.ru/grenade/gl29-e.htm
LAC? or, LAG?
bromdenlong
SOC-12
LAG, for Light Assault Gun
Around 1980, I had an aviation magazine that mostly consisted of ads by various defense contractors. There was an ad for a 20mm semiauto rifle that matched the description of the LAG perfectly, IIRC. The ammunition options were the same, too, right down to the muzzle velocities and projectile weights. It wasn't a grenade launcher, just a big slug thrower. I think it had a recoil spring in the stock.
Around 1980, I had an aviation magazine that mostly consisted of ads by various defense contractors. There was an ad for a 20mm semiauto rifle that matched the description of the LAG perfectly, IIRC. The ammunition options were the same, too, right down to the muzzle velocities and projectile weights. It wasn't a grenade launcher, just a big slug thrower. I think it had a recoil spring in the stock.
It's funny, because I always thought the .50 Barret was LAG prototype. It was the "anti material" weapon of choice for the US military, and I couldn't imagine a larger caliber weapon.
Then I come across this thing on Youtube. Wow. I'm guessing the 20mm rifle is not addressed in the Traveller rule set. Heck, it's not in any of the FPS games I've ever played.
Traveller gun-geeks, here's your golden opportunity to create it. Have at it.
Then I come across this thing on Youtube. Wow. I'm guessing the 20mm rifle is not addressed in the Traveller rule set. Heck, it's not in any of the FPS games I've ever played.
Traveller gun-geeks, here's your golden opportunity to create it. Have at it.
Ask and ye shall receive - I posted this a while ago in the Library:
http://www.travellerrpg.com/CotI/Discuss/showthread.php?t=20073
Scroll down to the SSG-88 for a 20mm rifle that fires conventional and collapsing round sub-tactical nuclear shells. It requires battledress, but since it has a small optional gravsled that carries the ammo, damper box, and a gun shield anyone can fire it if mounted on the sled. Ground the sled and it becomes a gun carriage.
http://www.travellerrpg.com/CotI/Discuss/showthread.php?t=20073
Scroll down to the SSG-88 for a 20mm rifle that fires conventional and collapsing round sub-tactical nuclear shells. It requires battledress, but since it has a small optional gravsled that carries the ammo, damper box, and a gun shield anyone can fire it if mounted on the sled. Ground the sled and it becomes a gun carriage.
And here are pics of two variants:
The first is the CPR (caseless) version with the pneumatic recoil compensation and belt-fed box magazine.
And the second in the Gauss version with a smaller magazine but requires and external power source - typically the battle dress or a laser rifle backpack.
Other than magazine capacity and power sources there isn't much difference between the two. The damper box for the collapsing rounds can use a linkless feed to rapid fire the rounds through the gun for mass area suppression, or the rounds can be fired by manually loading them using a manually operated charging handle on the left side of the receiver.
The first is the CPR (caseless) version with the pneumatic recoil compensation and belt-fed box magazine.
And the second in the Gauss version with a smaller magazine but requires and external power source - typically the battle dress or a laser rifle backpack.
Other than magazine capacity and power sources there isn't much difference between the two. The damper box for the collapsing rounds can use a linkless feed to rapid fire the rounds through the gun for mass area suppression, or the rounds can be fired by manually loading them using a manually operated charging handle on the left side of the receiver.
far-trader
SOC-14 10K
Actually no need, though conversions might be handy for some rule sets. It's been around since LBB4 Mercenary (c1978):
Light Assault Gun (LAG): Essentially a heavy rifle, the LAG fires a 20mm, 30 gram bullet at velocities of 400 to 500 meters per second. A magazine containing 5 rounds is inserted into the underside of the weapon, ahead of the trigger guard... One round is fired per pull of the trigger. Ammunition includes HE, flechette, and 20/9mm discarding sabot rounds... Due to the weight and recoil of the weapon, individuals with a strength of less than 9 (unless wearing battle dress) suffer a DM of -2 when firing the LAG.
Length: 900mm Weight, unloaded: 4000 grams (loaded magazine weighs 500 grams) Base price: CR 600 (loaded magazine: CR 20) Tech level 8
Not exactly what the video shows, but there you go Length: 900mm Weight, unloaded: 4000 grams (loaded magazine weighs 500 grams) Base price: CR 600 (loaded magazine: CR 20) Tech level 8
far-trader
SOC-14 10K
Nice gun ⌧ saberdog 
Major B
SOC-14 1K
Actually, 20mm rifle designs go back much further. The earliest I know of is a Finnish Anti-tank rifle developed in the late 30's.
Here is the link to the Wiki site that has a good photo: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lahti_L-39
Imagine trying to haul that around the bettlefield.
Actually no need, though conversions might be handy for some rule sets. It's been around since LBB4 Mercenary (c1978):
Light Assault Gun (LAG): Essentially a heavy rifle, the LAG fires a 20mm, 30 gram bullet at velocities of 400 to 500 meters per second. A magazine containing 5 rounds is inserted into the underside of the weapon, ahead of the trigger guard... One round is fired per pull of the trigger. Ammunition includes HE, flechette, and 20/9mm discarding sabot rounds... Due to the weight and recoil of the weapon, individuals with a strength of less than 9 (unless wearing battle dress) suffer a DM of -2 when firing the LAG.Not exactly what the video shows, but there you go
Length: 900mm Weight, unloaded: 4000 grams (loaded magazine weighs 500 grams) Base price: CR 600 (loaded magazine: CR 20) Tech level 8
... oops
Well then what's the Traveller equivalent of the .50 Barret sniper rifle?
far-trader
SOC-14 10K
I don't recall the specifics, only that it was a big bore single shot heavy rifle, somewhere in CT. Described as a big game hunting rifle iirc, but it might fit the needs of a .50 sniper rifle. I don't recall where it is though.
Traveller (CT at least) is grainy enough that close will do
That said I never felt the LAG above was quite big enough as described. Figured it should be about twice as long and 10 times as heavy* and I think I adjusted the ranges and to hit as well. That would make it more like some real world LAGs.
* but that would be ridiculous under CT encumbrance rules, so it led me to believe that "weights" in CT were not necessarily actual weight but just an encumbrance rating, I think I had penciled in 20kg at one time
Traveller (CT at least) is grainy enough that close will do
That said I never felt the LAG above was quite big enough as described. Figured it should be about twice as long and 10 times as heavy* and I think I adjusted the ranges and to hit as well. That would make it more like some real world LAGs.
* but that would be ridiculous under CT encumbrance rules, so it led me to believe that "weights" in CT were not necessarily actual weight but just an encumbrance rating, I think I had penciled in 20kg at one time
Major B
SOC-14 1K
I've finally been able to see the video linked in the OP, at least the beginning (download speed on my personal computer is slow and I can't access youtube at work).
That is a Lahti they are firing. The video says it is modified but then again the video calls it a Vulcan which is a multibarrel antiaircraft weapon that looks nothing like a Lahti.
Dan, 10 times as heavy is (I think) a better figure. I think the book version had 4 kg, and 40 is closer to what wikipedia has listed for the Lahti:
And that is unloaded weight. Add over 2 kg for the magazine.
That is a Lahti they are firing. The video says it is modified but then again the video calls it a Vulcan which is a multibarrel antiaircraft weapon that looks nothing like a Lahti.
Dan, 10 times as heavy is (I think) a better figure. I think the book version had 4 kg, and 40 is closer to what wikipedia has listed for the Lahti:
wikipedia said:
And that is unloaded weight. Add over 2 kg for the magazine.
Well, based on what I saw in that video, it seems to be an unwieldily weapon for practical purposes. At least in a Snap Shot like vein.
I think the only "vulcan canon" part was the barrel tacked onto the main weapon.
I think the only "vulcan canon" part was the barrel tacked onto the main weapon.
I don't recall the specifics, only that it was a big bore single shot heavy rifle, somewhere in CT. Described as a big game hunting rifle iirc, but it might fit the needs of a .50 sniper rifle. I don't recall where it is though.
Traveller (CT at least) is grainy enough that close will do
*sniperoo*...
Yeah, I seem to recall the CT weapon analogy being "an elephant gun" as an example. I guess the Barret could fall into that catagory.
Yeah, the CT version in Mercenary appears to have been modeled on the Boys ATR or a similar anti-tank rifle. In fact, the stats on the Boys are almost spot on, including the magazine capacity.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boys_anti-tank_rifle
Beasties like the Grizzly and Barret weren't around when the game came out other wise the weapon would have been slightly handier, but no one would ever be able to fire one offhand. Eve off a bench rest I imagine it would hurt like heck unless is had some good pneumatic recoil compensation , or some other means of dampening the recoil.
Barrett is currently working on a critter called the XM-109 which the company says may or may not be actually put into production, but has been used as a testbed for heavy caliber sniper and special purpose infantry longarms. The thing shoots a 20 or 25mm round that comes in ball, expanding, HE, HEAP, gas, and API versions and, while is still has to be be realistically shot form a prone position it also provides the shooter with enough stand-off distance that with a gun like this he could really put the hurt into some armored or bunkered in troops.
Which, while I always thought the LAG was pretty low-tech for even the relatively non-exotic Traveler armory I also imagined it would be a cheap and effective way for low tech types to fight combat and BD -equipped troops. And since the CT system is kinda all or nothing when it comes to damage having somebody bounce 20mm AP rounds off you from half a click away is pretty nerve-wracking. Less so in AHL or Striker where there is range and armor attenuation on the damage the weapon does.
And I must confess, I once allowed a creative player back in the day to use an LAG to punch a hole in the windscreen of another ship that was coming alongside to board them - killing the pilot and giving the players a chance to snipe the pirates who then spilled out of the open airlock that hadn't connected yet. I know, I know, it was unrealistic but tend to reward ideas that are "crazy enough that it might just work!" by letting the players try it once.
When I saw Firefly years later with a similar thing happening in the "Our Mrs. Reynolds" episode I didn't feel quite so bad.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boys_anti-tank_rifle
Beasties like the Grizzly and Barret weren't around when the game came out other wise the weapon would have been slightly handier, but no one would ever be able to fire one offhand. Eve off a bench rest I imagine it would hurt like heck unless is had some good pneumatic recoil compensation , or some other means of dampening the recoil.
Barrett is currently working on a critter called the XM-109 which the company says may or may not be actually put into production, but has been used as a testbed for heavy caliber sniper and special purpose infantry longarms. The thing shoots a 20 or 25mm round that comes in ball, expanding, HE, HEAP, gas, and API versions and, while is still has to be be realistically shot form a prone position it also provides the shooter with enough stand-off distance that with a gun like this he could really put the hurt into some armored or bunkered in troops.
Which, while I always thought the LAG was pretty low-tech for even the relatively non-exotic Traveler armory I also imagined it would be a cheap and effective way for low tech types to fight combat and BD -equipped troops. And since the CT system is kinda all or nothing when it comes to damage having somebody bounce 20mm AP rounds off you from half a click away is pretty nerve-wracking. Less so in AHL or Striker where there is range and armor attenuation on the damage the weapon does.
And I must confess, I once allowed a creative player back in the day to use an LAG to punch a hole in the windscreen of another ship that was coming alongside to board them - killing the pilot and giving the players a chance to snipe the pirates who then spilled out of the open airlock that hadn't connected yet. I know, I know, it was unrealistic but tend to reward ideas that are "crazy enough that it might just work!" by letting the players try it once.
When I saw Firefly years later with a similar thing happening in the "Our Mrs. Reynolds" episode I didn't feel quite so bad.
