Solomani Tech level
- Thread starter gchuck
- Start date
And the TL17 is a xenophobic society.
The CT alien module, set in 1111, states that the "maximum tech level of the Solomani Confederation is 14" (30). The MT Solomani and Aslan book, set in 1122, raises this to 15 (41). The Dark Nebula sector data from that book has only a couple of TL 15 Confederation worlds: Dranweis (2624 A100632-F) and Hynri-lavo (303S A539543-F).
But that said, MT had a more liberal definition of TL than T5, so it's not 100% clear to me how common TL 15 would be in the Confederation at the time of the Collapse. My guess is "fairly rare." Darsei (Aldebaran 1401 A765845-F), as shown in Imperial Lines 2 is described as "one of the few TL 15 worlds in Solomani space" (7).
But that said, MT had a more liberal definition of TL than T5, so it's not 100% clear to me how common TL 15 would be in the Confederation at the time of the Collapse. My guess is "fairly rare." Darsei (Aldebaran 1401 A765845-F), as shown in Imperial Lines 2 is described as "one of the few TL 15 worlds in Solomani space" (7).
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Which begs the question of why the SolConfed wouldn't put more resources into lifting more critical facilities or systems to TL15? If it was a state more centralised than the 3I couldn't it have had a greater chance of that occurring?
epicenter00
SOC-13
From the general evidence in various sourcebooks and so on, the Solomani appear, like the Zhodani, to be a convenient one TL behind the Imperial military.
So their front-line naval warships are TL14 while their front-line ground forces are TL13.
If this trend continues (and it seems to as the Rebellion sourcebook has a certain 'assembly line' mentality to it), then it's likely the average Solomani TL is 11, one below that of the Imperium's 12.
The following is my conjecture, so take it with a grain of salt:
From evidence in the Rebellion sourcebook and the TNE materials, TL14/13 manufacturing base of the Solomani was much less robust than the Imperium's. It was likely a strain for the Solomani to build and support a TL14 navy even during peacetime. A fairly large number of higher-tech planets exist in the Solomani Sphere, but their presence is insufficient to used as a manufacturing baseline for the Solomani military.
* There is a lot of attention paid to TL12/TL13 warships and vehicles turned out by the Solomani in the late Rebellion period. Meanwhile, there is much less emphasis on lower-tech warships and equipment for the Imperium. This is despite the fact the Imperium had fractured and was fighting a civil war before the Solomani got involved. While this may just have been Dave Nilsen's bias of putting emphasis on the Solomani to be different from other Traveller settings, it helps paint a pretty reasonable picture.
* Continual Solomani defeats to Imperial factions during the Rebellion. While it's likely that this is again, just Traveller's line authors being lazy and overusing "defeating generic bad guys tho show how cool their favorite faction is" trope, the idea of a TL14 navy that can't really be supported by the Solomani and most of their navy being TL13 or TL12 might also explain the performance disparity and subsequent defeats.
* There are various designs in Hard Times. However, these interesting designs appear to be things being done in the civilian realm or at best on the level of individual planets. They do not appear to be have been adopted and mass-produced designs by any of the factions in the Imperium.
So their front-line naval warships are TL14 while their front-line ground forces are TL13.
If this trend continues (and it seems to as the Rebellion sourcebook has a certain 'assembly line' mentality to it), then it's likely the average Solomani TL is 11, one below that of the Imperium's 12.
The following is my conjecture, so take it with a grain of salt:
From evidence in the Rebellion sourcebook and the TNE materials, TL14/13 manufacturing base of the Solomani was much less robust than the Imperium's. It was likely a strain for the Solomani to build and support a TL14 navy even during peacetime. A fairly large number of higher-tech planets exist in the Solomani Sphere, but their presence is insufficient to used as a manufacturing baseline for the Solomani military.
* There is a lot of attention paid to TL12/TL13 warships and vehicles turned out by the Solomani in the late Rebellion period. Meanwhile, there is much less emphasis on lower-tech warships and equipment for the Imperium. This is despite the fact the Imperium had fractured and was fighting a civil war before the Solomani got involved. While this may just have been Dave Nilsen's bias of putting emphasis on the Solomani to be different from other Traveller settings, it helps paint a pretty reasonable picture.
* Continual Solomani defeats to Imperial factions during the Rebellion. While it's likely that this is again, just Traveller's line authors being lazy and overusing "defeating generic bad guys tho show how cool their favorite faction is" trope, the idea of a TL14 navy that can't really be supported by the Solomani and most of their navy being TL13 or TL12 might also explain the performance disparity and subsequent defeats.
* There are various designs in Hard Times. However, these interesting designs appear to be things being done in the civilian realm or at best on the level of individual planets. They do not appear to be have been adopted and mass-produced designs by any of the factions in the Imperium.
Well, there is a fundamental question of just how centralized the Confederation really is compared to the Imperium. And there's an inherent contradiction on this point that runs through canon.
When we think of the Confederation we tend to think of a monolithic autocracy with strong central control. And I think that at Class A or B starports, or on high population, high TL worlds this perspective probably holds true: the Party drives policy and government and informs local culture. SolSec keeps a tight rein on citizens, like the East German Stasi.
But there is also a strong line of canonical sources that show a fractured, culturally diverse Confederation that is barely held together, like the former Soviet Union. Both DGP and GURPS materials in particular emphasize these elements; in the Lorenverse timeline, the Confederation appears on the verge of a Soviet-style breakup after 1120.
I think there is strong support for both perspectives and they aren't mutually exclusive. The Party exerts strong control over a very narrow and visible band within the Confederation, but outside this band you see much more powerful local control.
And economically, the Confederation is only a pale shadow of the Imperium. Alpha Crucis is a strong sector but what does the Confederation really have beyond that? Post Rim War, the Imperium holds the strongest worlds in the Rim, Daibei, and Magyar -- the portions of those sectors that the Confederation kept are much weaker with regards to population, TL, and economy. Dark Nebula, Ustra Quadrant, Spica, and Langere are all frontier areas bordering large and potentially dangerous polities. Canopus, Aldebaran, and Neworld also frontier areas with subsectors that have seen little development.
So all told, I suspect there are individual sectors within the Imperium that have comparable economic output to the entire Confederation.
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Condottiere
SOC-14 5K
1. There could be member states within the the Confederation that have a technological level fifteen industrial base.
2. I think that the Confederation is more interested in raising as many worlds as possible to technological level fourteen, than concentrating on favouring a couple of cutting edge industrial parks, outside of black budget programmes.
2. I think that the Confederation is more interested in raising as many worlds as possible to technological level fourteen, than concentrating on favouring a couple of cutting edge industrial parks, outside of black budget programmes.
So, you know, I'm just going to beat this drum.
TL gaps don't, per se, bother me.
What bothers me is how long they last.
It's not like the Imperium reached TL 15 6 months ago. It's been running TL15 for, what, 100+ years?
Solomoni don't have spies? They don't have folks that can steal tech, or starships, or, heck, just go BUY high tech goods and bring them back for reverse engineering.
I remember stories of the USSR buying Intel 8080 CPUs from Radio Shack and smuggling them home. And stories of walking around the Farnborough Air Show with "1 meter canes", standing next to aircraft, while other took photos to provide scale. (Funny, when they could have probably just picked up the latest copy of Jane's, but the, for that matter, perhaps Jane's staff were some of those with the 1 meter canes walking around...)
TL is simply knowledge, and sophonts are, by definition, "smart" and suss things out. Especially with access to working examples.
Anyway, rant off.
TL gaps aren't created by solely by lack of access to information -- they are also created by serious, structural infrastructure limitations.
If I live on a TL 10 Imperial world with a class A starport, I don't necessarily lack access to TL 15 goodies because I don't know how TL 15 tech works. I might very well have access to library data files that can give me a PhD level understanding of TL 15 gravitic theory. But for whatever reason my world doesn't not have an infrastructure that allows us to create our own.
The reason might be demographic (we don't have sufficient population base) or economic (our planetary government is crippled by offworld debt that prevents reinvestment in education and infrastructure) or commercial (we are 1 parsec away from a high pop TL 15 manufacturing powerhouse) or cultural (we like our rural, tourism-driven economy).
The Confederation isn't stuck at TL 14 because they don't have access to the Imperium's tech knowledge. The Sollies probably get detailed intel on most tech breakthroughs shortly after the Imperium makes them. They just lack the capability to replicate these at scale.
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Timerover51
SOC-14 5K
If I recall correctly, the Solomani developed Jump-2 drives prior to the Vilani Imperium. That was well over 1100 years ago. I am not up to the current Imperium timeline. If they were ahead then, why would they be behind now, especially after the disaster of the Imperial Rebellions and Virus?
As for the issue of the inability to reach Tech Level 15 on high-population planets, how did Tech Level 14 high population planets in the Imperium make it to Tech Level 15? If the Solomani cannot manage it, how does the Imperium?
As for the issue of the inability to reach Tech Level 15 on high-population planets, how did Tech Level 14 high population planets in the Imperium make it to Tech Level 15? If the Solomani cannot manage it, how does the Imperium?
Xerxeskingofking
SOC-13
you recall somewhat incorrectly.
the vlani got J2 just before the Consolidation wars that founded the Ziru Shirka, about -5400 Imperial, or about 8th century BCE (or about the time that the first settlers founded Rome)
what the terrans developed was J3, which they did so about -2280 or so (sometime between the eighth and ninth Interstellar Wars), which is specifically because of deliberate Vlani conservatism locking them in near tech stasis for thousands of years, and preventing them from doing so.
the vlani got J2 just before the Consolidation wars that founded the Ziru Shirka, about -5400 Imperial, or about 8th century BCE (or about the time that the first settlers founded Rome)
what the terrans developed was J3, which they did so about -2280 or so (sometime between the eighth and ninth Interstellar Wars), which is specifically because of deliberate Vlani conservatism locking them in near tech stasis for thousands of years, and preventing them from doing so.
Why would that be?
Because canon says it is. The people are so xenophopic that they don't even meet face to face.
Ref's Data:
Spoiler:
What follows is pretty meta-gamey, but I suspect there are some underlying sociological principles that result in the OTU as we know it. These principals are not hard, absolute laws but they are strong structural tendencies that help create the familiar but somewhat unexpected lags and disparities in tech we see in Traveller.
Somehow, population and technology are inter-related in a special way within all known interstellar societies based around the jump drive.
If we look at various interstellar societies across Charted Space (and even when we compare these societies across history), we may note remarkable structural similarities that occur between TL 8 and at least TL 16. These similarities hold across time periods: we see them in the Ziru Sirka and we see them in the Third Imperium. These similarities hold across species: we see them in human societies and we even see them in non-human societies such as the Aslan Hierate or the Hive Federation.
What are these similarities?
It seems that any society requires some level of critical mass before it can achieve a specific TL. This critical mass has many components, including cultural dynamism, mechanisms to efficiently record and transmit information, and available infrastructure, but the critical mass is most strongly associated with population. Higher TLs seem to require progressively larger population bases but it is not simply a matter of numbers: the larger population base also has to represent a community that encourages an active exchange of ideas across worlds. Scholars have argued that the Hive Federation and the Imperium are able to support TL 15 not just because of their large population bases but because their societies support particularly vibrant interworld trade and cooperation.
This also explains why many worlds have experienced population explosions without commensurate increases in tech; population is a necessary fuel for TL advancement but insufficient by itself. The Aslan, for example, have a large population base but an inherent cultural conservatism and inefficient interclan dynamic limits tech growth. At the other end of the spectrum, the Terrans of the Interstellar Wars period had a relatively small population base but were able to advance through tech levels with unprecedented rapidity due to an exceptionally adaptive culture and a society almost perfectly structured for mercantile expansion.
There is something inherently inefficient about the Jump drive that exacerbates the uneven distribution of population and tech across different worlds and retards the propagation of information and tech; this inherent inefficiency also acts as a natural governor on the rate of tech advancement. Once an interstellar society reaches a new TL it can normally take centuries for these new advancements to be disseminated and assimilated into the wider society.
As we have seen with the Terrans, exceptions can and do occur that allow for more rapid tech advancement, but these occurrences are fairly rare and limited to relatively short bursts of development; further, such bursts are often unsustainable. (See, for example, the Darrians.) Hypothetical interstellar societies based on an FTL tech that is not associated with the Jump drive may not demonstrate similar features. A sophont species that is significantly dissimilar to Humanitii would not necessarily suffer from similar limitations. A species with inherited memories or hive-mind consciousnesses, or a radically different lifespan, might be able to progress through TLs at vastly different rates.
Somehow, population and technology are inter-related in a special way within all known interstellar societies based around the jump drive.
If we look at various interstellar societies across Charted Space (and even when we compare these societies across history), we may note remarkable structural similarities that occur between TL 8 and at least TL 16. These similarities hold across time periods: we see them in the Ziru Sirka and we see them in the Third Imperium. These similarities hold across species: we see them in human societies and we even see them in non-human societies such as the Aslan Hierate or the Hive Federation.
What are these similarities?
- Mainworld populations are unevenly distributed across space
- Mainworld TLs are unevenly distributed across space
- TL advancement requires specific conditions that are unevenly distributed across time and space
It seems that any society requires some level of critical mass before it can achieve a specific TL. This critical mass has many components, including cultural dynamism, mechanisms to efficiently record and transmit information, and available infrastructure, but the critical mass is most strongly associated with population. Higher TLs seem to require progressively larger population bases but it is not simply a matter of numbers: the larger population base also has to represent a community that encourages an active exchange of ideas across worlds. Scholars have argued that the Hive Federation and the Imperium are able to support TL 15 not just because of their large population bases but because their societies support particularly vibrant interworld trade and cooperation.
This also explains why many worlds have experienced population explosions without commensurate increases in tech; population is a necessary fuel for TL advancement but insufficient by itself. The Aslan, for example, have a large population base but an inherent cultural conservatism and inefficient interclan dynamic limits tech growth. At the other end of the spectrum, the Terrans of the Interstellar Wars period had a relatively small population base but were able to advance through tech levels with unprecedented rapidity due to an exceptionally adaptive culture and a society almost perfectly structured for mercantile expansion.
There is something inherently inefficient about the Jump drive that exacerbates the uneven distribution of population and tech across different worlds and retards the propagation of information and tech; this inherent inefficiency also acts as a natural governor on the rate of tech advancement. Once an interstellar society reaches a new TL it can normally take centuries for these new advancements to be disseminated and assimilated into the wider society.
As we have seen with the Terrans, exceptions can and do occur that allow for more rapid tech advancement, but these occurrences are fairly rare and limited to relatively short bursts of development; further, such bursts are often unsustainable. (See, for example, the Darrians.) Hypothetical interstellar societies based on an FTL tech that is not associated with the Jump drive may not demonstrate similar features. A sophont species that is significantly dissimilar to Humanitii would not necessarily suffer from similar limitations. A species with inherited memories or hive-mind consciousnesses, or a radically different lifespan, might be able to progress through TLs at vastly different rates.
epicenter00
SOC-13
Traveller authors are like most authors (and really most of us) when it comes not having a very good grasp of time's passing.
There's a quote-ish thing about "after a certain point, people who lived in the past become contemporaries." Cleopatra and Alexander the Great could have somehow met each other in the minds of many as they both lived "back then." Pharaoh Tutankhamun lived around 1330BCE while the Great Pyramid were constructed around 2570BCE. 1240 years is frankly not a period of time most of us can really grasp except abstractly. To put it into perspective: Someone in the modern day and Tutankhamun would have shared one indelible thing as both would have thought the Great Pyramid as ancient. (Or: 1240 years is like saying Queen Victoria and King Arthur were contemporaries). Yet, for most of us, we somehow have this hazy impression that Tutankhamun was reigning shortly after the Great Pyramid was constructed; perhaps "in your grandfather's day", an impression that isn't helped when any history book about the "history of Egyptian civilization" always has some cover with the image of the Pyramids along the Nile with the mask of Tutankhamun set to 60% transparency in the background rising up like some Bejing smog behind the Pyramids.
Fantasy worlds have these kinds of issues in droves. Empires that last thousands of years, unbroken. Worlds frozen in some vaguely middle ages society and technology for tens of thousands of years without the fundamental understandings between the connections of technology and change; if for instance, the entire army King Argle can be armored in steel plate and even the infantry are in half-plate (and all of them with steel weapons) it means that steel-making has become reliable and the price of steel has come down. It's not cheap enough to use as a building material yet, but it has come down in price so that people can start experimenting with other uses for steel rather than just the most expensive and exclusive uses.
I think Traveller is no different. They wanted the Third Imperium to last 1000 years. When this was the very vague, hazy Imperium of the earlier materials it was fine; GMs were free to arrange things as they wished and there wasn't really much of a history to poke a bunch of holes in. The game occurred in a snapshot of time without much regard to what came before or what came after.
As Traveller's history becomes increasingly fleshed out, all the weird UWPs that come from random charts (again, it's not that weird UWPs exist to be explained away - the number of them which beggar belief), technology standing still for centuries, and so on become increasingly common and things become less logical, not more.
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I think that the real reason the Solomani Confederation's tech level lags behind the Imperium's is because the Imperium is the star of the show, so to speak. What remains is to find a reasonable in character explanation for the contradictions in the characters' world/setting/universe.
IMO, the 3I being the most technologically advanced polity contradicts the anti-innovation cultural attitudes of the Vilani, who are probably the Imperium's majority population by a long shot. The Solomani/Vilani-descended military-industrial-financial upper class could be the driving force behind the 3I's technological advancement. Unfettered trade, the free exchange of ideas, military advancement and megacorporate profit would all facilitate and encourage even greater technological advancement.
But, the Solomani have had these same structural advantages for thousands of years without any anti-innovation cultural bias.
From the height of Terra's power at the formation of the Rule of Man through the Old Earth Union joining the 3rd Imperium in 588 is about 2000 years of uninterrupted technological civilization in the core of the Solomani Sphere.
Additional advantages that the Solomani had were:
1. The Solomani way of life was imposed on the populations of the former Ziru Sirka, not the other way around. Vilani populations suffered massive economic and social upheavals as their ancient traditions and economic structures were swept away.
2. The Solomani didn't suffer from the killer plagues they carried that wiped out many Vilani populations living in the Solomani region, and they probably benefited from the horrifying depopulation apocalypse on many worlds. Traveller source material mentions this a little then says medical procedures prevented further outbreaks, but realistically this could have had catastrophic effects on the Vilani populations throughout the former Ziru Sirka. Critical people like government officials, business leaders, and scientists could have been especially hard hit since they would have more contact with Terrans than regular people. Plagues contracted from Terrans could have incapacitated whole Vilani military units. Imagine the flu tearing through a confined population like a battleship crew that has no resistance and no idea what is happening to it, or an invasion force trying to deal with a pinkeye outbreak with no idea what's causing it or how to stop it. STDs would've ripped through Vilani populations wherever Terrans went. The effects of disease can be terrible, even on a rl modern army. The Soviet army lost about 600,000 troops to diseases like hepatitis and dysentery during their Afghan war (killed or crippled). 30% of Soviet artillery was out of action at any given time because their crews were incapacitated due to disease. IMO, the Vilani regions of space which suffered this onslaught would have taken centuries to recover. IMTU, Vilani still look on Terrans with resentment, fear and disgust a thousand years later.
3. Greater commercial competition within the Solomani region which could have stimulated innovation, rather than the megacorporate influence prevalent in the Imperium which could have discouraged innovation in favor of established economic interests.
4. The Old Earth Union joined the Imperium in 588 and had 350 years of stability, prosperity, and access to Imperial technologies and markets before the political problems which led to the Solomani Rim War. The Solomani Autonomous Region should have been completely equal to the Imperium in technology during this time, if not being a high tech center for the Imperium.
So, how did the Solomani Confederation go from being at least technologically equal to the Imperium before the Solomani Rim War to being one or two tech levels behind, despite having all the advantages of the Imperium and an urgent motivation to at least maintain technological parity?
IMO the Confederation wouldn't have fallen behind, but if I had to explain it to a group of players who asked the question I would say:
1. Most of the Solomani Confederation's vital high tech worlds were centered around Terra, and many of them were devastated and/or conquered by Imperial forces by the end of the war. The Confederation is still recovering from the loss of these R&D facilities, educated populations, and high tech industrial centers. Most Imperial high tech centers were far from the fighting and so they were unaffected.
2. The Confederation's economy was driven into ruin by the war and it's only getting back on its feet 100 years later. In the post-war period, many Confederation worlds were wracked by economic collapse due to wartime economic policies, infrastructure damage inflicted by Imperial forces, and the loss of many of their best and brightest in the battles of the Solomani Rim War, and these worlds focused on restoring economic prosperity instead of R&D. Rimward worlds weren't developed enough to carry the Confederation's high tech economy. The Confederation government had to urgently rebuild its military after the war despite the state of the economy, so it was forced to use cheaper technologies despite having the capability to build TL15 equipment. The Confederation continues to improve, but at the current time the funding isn't available for a widespread modernization of the Confederation's fleets and armies.
IMO, the 3I being the most technologically advanced polity contradicts the anti-innovation cultural attitudes of the Vilani, who are probably the Imperium's majority population by a long shot. The Solomani/Vilani-descended military-industrial-financial upper class could be the driving force behind the 3I's technological advancement. Unfettered trade, the free exchange of ideas, military advancement and megacorporate profit would all facilitate and encourage even greater technological advancement.
But, the Solomani have had these same structural advantages for thousands of years without any anti-innovation cultural bias.
From the height of Terra's power at the formation of the Rule of Man through the Old Earth Union joining the 3rd Imperium in 588 is about 2000 years of uninterrupted technological civilization in the core of the Solomani Sphere.
Additional advantages that the Solomani had were:
1. The Solomani way of life was imposed on the populations of the former Ziru Sirka, not the other way around. Vilani populations suffered massive economic and social upheavals as their ancient traditions and economic structures were swept away.
2. The Solomani didn't suffer from the killer plagues they carried that wiped out many Vilani populations living in the Solomani region, and they probably benefited from the horrifying depopulation apocalypse on many worlds. Traveller source material mentions this a little then says medical procedures prevented further outbreaks, but realistically this could have had catastrophic effects on the Vilani populations throughout the former Ziru Sirka. Critical people like government officials, business leaders, and scientists could have been especially hard hit since they would have more contact with Terrans than regular people. Plagues contracted from Terrans could have incapacitated whole Vilani military units. Imagine the flu tearing through a confined population like a battleship crew that has no resistance and no idea what is happening to it, or an invasion force trying to deal with a pinkeye outbreak with no idea what's causing it or how to stop it. STDs would've ripped through Vilani populations wherever Terrans went. The effects of disease can be terrible, even on a rl modern army. The Soviet army lost about 600,000 troops to diseases like hepatitis and dysentery during their Afghan war (killed or crippled). 30% of Soviet artillery was out of action at any given time because their crews were incapacitated due to disease. IMO, the Vilani regions of space which suffered this onslaught would have taken centuries to recover. IMTU, Vilani still look on Terrans with resentment, fear and disgust a thousand years later.
3. Greater commercial competition within the Solomani region which could have stimulated innovation, rather than the megacorporate influence prevalent in the Imperium which could have discouraged innovation in favor of established economic interests.
4. The Old Earth Union joined the Imperium in 588 and had 350 years of stability, prosperity, and access to Imperial technologies and markets before the political problems which led to the Solomani Rim War. The Solomani Autonomous Region should have been completely equal to the Imperium in technology during this time, if not being a high tech center for the Imperium.
So, how did the Solomani Confederation go from being at least technologically equal to the Imperium before the Solomani Rim War to being one or two tech levels behind, despite having all the advantages of the Imperium and an urgent motivation to at least maintain technological parity?
IMO the Confederation wouldn't have fallen behind, but if I had to explain it to a group of players who asked the question I would say:
1. Most of the Solomani Confederation's vital high tech worlds were centered around Terra, and many of them were devastated and/or conquered by Imperial forces by the end of the war. The Confederation is still recovering from the loss of these R&D facilities, educated populations, and high tech industrial centers. Most Imperial high tech centers were far from the fighting and so they were unaffected.
2. The Confederation's economy was driven into ruin by the war and it's only getting back on its feet 100 years later. In the post-war period, many Confederation worlds were wracked by economic collapse due to wartime economic policies, infrastructure damage inflicted by Imperial forces, and the loss of many of their best and brightest in the battles of the Solomani Rim War, and these worlds focused on restoring economic prosperity instead of R&D. Rimward worlds weren't developed enough to carry the Confederation's high tech economy. The Confederation government had to urgently rebuild its military after the war despite the state of the economy, so it was forced to use cheaper technologies despite having the capability to build TL15 equipment. The Confederation continues to improve, but at the current time the funding isn't available for a widespread modernization of the Confederation's fleets and armies.
mike wightman
SOC-14 10K
My take on it.
Just about every CT source is written from the Third Imperium's viewpoint, so they often don't tell the whole or even a true story - there are secrets such as the Aslan's minor status, the Zhodani not being bad guys, that sort of thing. The Solomani are not the fascist/communist/totalitarian state that the Imperium want to portray them as.
They are a confederation, some Solomani polities are democracies, some ore corporate empires etc.
There is even the myth of a long night. There was no long night from the Old Earth Union point of view - the First Imperium was conquered, the Terrans took over for a while but the far away Imperium fell - effect on Earth and the pocket empires springing up around Earth, next to nil.
The Third Imperium invented the concept of a long night for the Sylean region of space because that is what they suffered. While trade within the region of the first Imperium was now just about dead, the far off Solomani pocket Empires continued to expand - they encountered the Aslan and began border wars with them - not exactly the actions of a defunct polity.
Was there technological stagnation within the Solomani area during this so called 'long night' period? Probably not too much actually. By the Time the Sylean Federation - sorry - Third Imperium recontacted the Solomani region there were probably many TL13 or even 14 worlds within Solomani space.
The Third Imperium has two things to offer, fusion+ and a much larger economy to trade with and partner with. That the Third Imperium was heavily 'solomani fanboy' (and of solomani ancestry) probably helped a lot, the Imperium wanted the Solomani to join, which they agreed to.
We know from Agent of the Imperium that you should take the overall TL of an empire with a pinch of salt. The supposedly TL13 Imperium was using jump 5 engines in scout cruisers long before the empire as a whole was elevated to a TL14 base, and similar jump 6 ships would appear by the 700s, three centuries before TL15 became Imperial standard.
The Imperium has one other ace - they have access to the secret Vilani database repositories of technologies and cultures encountered by the Vilani during their five millennia in space - the Vilani locked these secrets away, frightened of the paradigm shift TL12 would bring (I have an essay on that
) and deliberately stagnated their TL to 11.
The Syleans had no problem adopting TL12, quickly elevating themselves to TL13 and then experimenting with TL14 all within a few centuries of the founding of the Imperium.
Those secrets allowed Imperial r&d to perfect the meson screen, nuclear damper technology, access higher jump dimensions, but the Solomani didn't have the secret Vilani repositories to call upon for the rapid development of the 'black ops' Imperium for want of a better term.
The Third Imperium did still shy away from intelligent machines - artificial sentience may be TL16/17 but you can emulate/run a human personality from TL13, build robots and computers that can learn from TL11/12 - there are examples in AotI of TL12+ world computer networks achieving sentience and the world having to be scrubbed as a result.
Meanwhile the Solomani, now within the Imperium, consolidate their area as TL13, are slowly building to TL14 all through original research. Rather than rely on machines the Solomani go in for genetic engineering and their much greater average world population - people do the jobs instead of machines.
The Solomani Rim War was the major reason for the Third Imperium to push their industrial base to TL15 - the early war had a TL13/14 Solomani fleet facing a TL14 Imperium. The Imperium had the r&d to roll out TL15, the Solomani didn't.
Post Rim War the Solomani consolidate to T14 and begin the climb to TL15 on capable worlds, but they are a way off having a TL15 base.
Just about every CT source is written from the Third Imperium's viewpoint, so they often don't tell the whole or even a true story - there are secrets such as the Aslan's minor status, the Zhodani not being bad guys, that sort of thing. The Solomani are not the fascist/communist/totalitarian state that the Imperium want to portray them as.
They are a confederation, some Solomani polities are democracies, some ore corporate empires etc.
There is even the myth of a long night. There was no long night from the Old Earth Union point of view - the First Imperium was conquered, the Terrans took over for a while but the far away Imperium fell - effect on Earth and the pocket empires springing up around Earth, next to nil.
The Third Imperium invented the concept of a long night for the Sylean region of space because that is what they suffered. While trade within the region of the first Imperium was now just about dead, the far off Solomani pocket Empires continued to expand - they encountered the Aslan and began border wars with them - not exactly the actions of a defunct polity.
Was there technological stagnation within the Solomani area during this so called 'long night' period? Probably not too much actually. By the Time the Sylean Federation - sorry - Third Imperium recontacted the Solomani region there were probably many TL13 or even 14 worlds within Solomani space.
The Third Imperium has two things to offer, fusion+ and a much larger economy to trade with and partner with. That the Third Imperium was heavily 'solomani fanboy' (and of solomani ancestry) probably helped a lot, the Imperium wanted the Solomani to join, which they agreed to.
We know from Agent of the Imperium that you should take the overall TL of an empire with a pinch of salt. The supposedly TL13 Imperium was using jump 5 engines in scout cruisers long before the empire as a whole was elevated to a TL14 base, and similar jump 6 ships would appear by the 700s, three centuries before TL15 became Imperial standard.
The Imperium has one other ace - they have access to the secret Vilani database repositories of technologies and cultures encountered by the Vilani during their five millennia in space - the Vilani locked these secrets away, frightened of the paradigm shift TL12 would bring (I have an essay on that
) and deliberately stagnated their TL to 11.The Syleans had no problem adopting TL12, quickly elevating themselves to TL13 and then experimenting with TL14 all within a few centuries of the founding of the Imperium.
Those secrets allowed Imperial r&d to perfect the meson screen, nuclear damper technology, access higher jump dimensions, but the Solomani didn't have the secret Vilani repositories to call upon for the rapid development of the 'black ops' Imperium for want of a better term.
The Third Imperium did still shy away from intelligent machines - artificial sentience may be TL16/17 but you can emulate/run a human personality from TL13, build robots and computers that can learn from TL11/12 - there are examples in AotI of TL12+ world computer networks achieving sentience and the world having to be scrubbed as a result.
Meanwhile the Solomani, now within the Imperium, consolidate their area as TL13, are slowly building to TL14 all through original research. Rather than rely on machines the Solomani go in for genetic engineering and their much greater average world population - people do the jobs instead of machines.
The Solomani Rim War was the major reason for the Third Imperium to push their industrial base to TL15 - the early war had a TL13/14 Solomani fleet facing a TL14 Imperium. The Imperium had the r&d to roll out TL15, the Solomani didn't.
Post Rim War the Solomani consolidate to T14 and begin the climb to TL15 on capable worlds, but they are a way off having a TL15 base.
epicenter00
SOC-13
the Vilani locked these secrets away, frightened of the paradigm shift TL12 would bring (I have an essay on that
I have my own ideas about this, but I am curious to read yours; a new thread perhaps?
I do love the Vilani Chamber of Secrets. It's about the only thing that adequately explains why they plateaued at TL 11 for so long.
