Sir Arthur Ashby, Solo Merchant/Administrator

[BlindGuy]

Hi,

I'm not really sure what I'll do with this dashing fellow, but I just rolled him up using MongTrav rules. He seems to have a promising career in store somewhere.

Sir Arthur Ashby
Homeworld: Jewell (Spinward Marches 1106)
578BAA
42 Years Old

Skills
Streetwise: 0
Trade: 0
Advocate: 1
Carouse: 0
Drive: 0
Vaccsuit: 1
Broker: 1
Steward: 0
Comms: 0
Persuade: 2
Engineering (jump drives): 1
Melee (blade): 2
Social Science (economics): 1
Computers: 1
Zero-G: 1
Admin: 2
Leadership: 1
Pilot (spacecraft): 1

Finances
CR 180,000
5 Free Trader shipshares

He spent three terms each on a Free Trader and administering some kind of family fief, I guess. Does anybody have any suggestions for how he might play into a solo game? I'm not quite sure if one PC is enough.
Best and thanks for any thoughts,
Zack.

 

[McPerth]

This will take us once again into de dicussion about how ship shares are managed...

Do those 5 free trader ship shares mean he owns a free trader (having paid the upfront cost) and 5% of the morgage? or do they mean he has investment in 5% of the cost of a free trader (and so he needs yet 15% of its cost to make the down payment)?

I know this is not the intended discussion, but IMHO it's crucial in answering you, as the fact of if he has the ship at his disposal or not will shape the whole play.

 

[BlindGuy]

Interesting question…

I'm curious where you get 15 more as a possibility. As far as I can see, he needs to own a minimum of 5 to take out a loan on a free trader. Granted, more would be better. I'm working from a copy of the Mongtrav manuscript, not the final book—maybe there are differences I'm unaware of?

 

[McPerth]

I'm curious where you get 15 more as a possibility. As far as I can see, he needs to own a minimum of 5 to take out a loan on a free trader. Granted, more would be better. I'm working from a copy of the Mongtrav manuscript, not the final book—maybe there are differences I'm unaware of?

The down payment for a ship is 20% of its cost, with a mortgage of 1/240^th of the Price for 480 months. If he only has an investment for a 5% of the Price (as 5 ship shares are described), he still needs a 15% more to make the down payment...

 

[BlindGuy]

The down payment for a ship is 20% of its cost, with a mortgage of 1/240^th of the Price for 480 months. If he only has an investment for a 5% of the Price (as 5 ship shares are described), he still needs a 15% more to make the down payment...

I'd be interested in other people's take on this. The table I have here doesn't really equate ship shares to percentages, at least it suggests you need 75 shares to own a Free Trader outright. Guessing this is a different take on them than made it into the final book… It also states I need a minimum of 5 shares to take out a loan on a Free Trader. Wish I didn't have to work with a manuscript at all, but the tables in the core book aren't really accessible to me. :-(

 

[rancke]

I know this is not the intended discussion, but IMHO it's crucial in answering you, as the fact of if he has the ship at his disposal or not will shape the whole play.

That is, as I've opined before, the crucial aspect of the whole ship share question. A campaign where the PCs have the use of a starship is fundamentally different from a campaign where the PCs do not have the use of a starship. As such, I'd never let random dice rolls dictate whether or not the PCs have the use of a starship. A starship isn't a piece of equipment, it's a plot feature. If I want to run a free trader campaign[*], the PCs will one way or another have the use of a ship; if I don't want them to have the use of a starship (or the equivalent of X% of the value of one in cash), I wouldn't let them receive ship shares during character generation at all.

[*] And if the players are willing. The last FTF campaign I ran the players refused to be a free trader crew and futz around with Accountancy in Space. Instead they became troubleshooters for Oberlindes Lines and a good time was had by all.​

Hans

 

[CosmicGamer]

The down payment for a ship is 20% of its cost, with a mortgage of 1/240^th of the Price for 480 months. If he only has an investment for a 5% of the Price (as 5 ship shares are described), he still needs a 15% more to make the down payment...

Are you pulling this from a different version of Traveller? Or maybe I missed it? I don't recall Mongoose requiring a 20% down payment.

It also states I need a minimum of 5 shares to take out a loan

I don't see this in the final book either.

The table I have here doesn't really equate ship shares to percentages

From the core rule book: "Reduce the cash price by 1% for every ship share contributed."

 

[McPerth]

Are you pulling this from a different version of Traveller? Or maybe I missed it? I don't recall Mongoose requiring a 20% down payment.

You're (at least) partially right in this. I reviewed the MgT CB and nowhere does it talk about the 20% down payment (in fact I didn't find where it details how to buy a ship), but...

MgT RB page 137:

Mortgage or Debts: <snip> THe standard terms for a ship mortgage is paying 1/240^th of the cash price wach month for 480 months (40 years). In efecto, interest and bank financing cost a simple 120% of the final cost of the ship, and the total financed Price equals 220% of the cash purchase price.

See that paying 1/240^th of the cash price wach month for 480 months would amount for a 100% (not 120%) of financing cost, for a total cost of 200% (not 220%) of the purchasing cost, so there's a 20% unaccounted for. I guess I (having played several previous versions) assumed that this 20% unaccounted for is the down payment, so, as you say, I pulled it from previous versions, but just to match with the costs explained.

From the core rule book: "Reduce the cash price by 1% for every ship share contributed."

And in CB page 138 it specifies;

Ship shares are treated as reducing the cash Price of the ship, and so reduce the monthly cash payments

But still nowhere (at least that I have found) says if the fact of having ship shares gives you the ship or just the credit to purchase it, still having to actually purchase it, nor how to purchase it (actual conditions of banking).

 

[BlindGuy]

Rules Ambiguities

You're (at least) partially right in this. I reviewed the MgT CB and nowhere does it talk about the 20% down payment (in fact I didn't find where it details how to buy a ship), but...



See that paying 1/240^th of the cash price wach month for 480 months would amount for a 100% (not 120%) of financing cost, for a total cost of 200% (not 220%) of the purchasing cost, so there's a 20% unaccounted for. I guess I (having played several previous versions) assumed that this 20% unaccounted for is the down payment, so, as you say, I pulled it from previous versions, but just to match with the costs explained.



And in CB page 138 it specifies;



But still nowhere (at least that I have found) says if the fact of having ship shares gives you the ship or just the credit to purchase it, still having to actually purchase it, nor how to purchase it (actual conditions of banking).

I'd think that ship shares don't represent an actual purchase, just from the definition being kind of nebulous. I wonder if Mongoose could be prompted to make a statement on this? I wonder how long they've been considered percentages… Was this the case in the play test rules as well?
Thanks for citing sources.
Yours,
Zack.

 

[BlindGuy]

Downpayments

Well, I found a source for the 20% downpayment figure. It appears in my PDF of the Traveller Book, and presumably the original LBBs as well. This is obviously for Classic Traveller. It doesn't really shed any more light on the ship share question, but is still interesting.

 

[McPerth]

Well, I found a source for the 20% downpayment figure. It appears in my PDF of the Traveller Book, and presumably the original LBBs as well. This is obviously for Classic Traveller. It doesn't really shed any more light on the ship share question, but is still interesting.

It was in most previous versions (at least in CT and MT,that are the ones I most played).

 

[BlindGuy]

Mortgages Made Easy

THere's a little sidebar with the title "Mortgages made Easy," in the Costs and Maintenance section of Spacecraft Operations. It gives the procedure for calculating the monthly payment, including the role of ship shares. The one thing it doesn't mention at all is the notion of a downpayment…

I'm comfortable abstracting this for gameplay purposes, but it does leave me wondering what the heck is actually happening.

 

[McPerth]

I'm comfortable abstracting this for gameplay purposes, but it does leave me wondering what the heck is actually happening.

Here I see two possible answers:

- They intend to forfeit this 20% down payment (but this is incoherent, IMHO, with saying that total financed cost is 220% actual ship cost, as said above).

- They forgot writing it, assuming most players already know from previous editions and assume people will import from them, infering from what is said. This has been a recurrent problem with some Traveller editions (not CT, of course), mostly in MT.

 

[BlindGuy]

If I didn't know better, I'd swear it was a case of bad copying and pasting. That phrase n Mongoose reads identically to the one in CT. definitely kind of incoherent. At any rate, I guess if I'm ever buying a ship outright without shares to get in the way I know what the expected downpayment is…

 

[McPerth]

In any case, and returning to your OP:

Hi,

I'm not really sure what I'll do with this dashing fellow, but I just rolled him up using MongTrav rules. He seems to have a promising career in store somewhere.

He spent three terms each on a Free Trader and administering some kind of family fief, I guess. Does anybody have any suggestions for how he might play into a solo game? I'm not quite sure if one PC is enough.
Best and thanks for any thoughts,
Zack.

As said, the main concern here is if he has a free trader at his diposal or he doesn't.

Assuming he has it, a single PC will not be enough to crew it. You'll need either more PCs or NPCs.

The critical positions in such a ship are Pilot and Engineer (a navigator expert program will forfeit this position, as minimal crew rules specify).

While he has both skills, there are in MgT (or at least I have not found them) rules for a crewmemeber to fill both positions¹, and if you use CT rules, as his skill levels will go down 1 level he will be skill level 0 for piloting and jump drive engineering, and wither act at skill -1 or as untrained (depending on how do you interpret it) for other engineering skills.

Also, if you want to carry passengers, you'll need at least a seteward (probably more, as each skill level, begining at 0, may only serve 2 HiPsg or 5 MdmPsg.

So, usually, the minimum crew is considered Pilot, Engineer and Steward. Someone should also have medical skill if you're to unse the low berths.

I'd suggest two Stewards (if they have skill level 1, they can care for up to 8 high passengers, more than needed on a free trader), if posible one of them with medical skill and, if you're going to arm the ship, both of them (if posible) with gunnery skill², so that both turrets might be manned (but remember you can always use fire control programs to offset this lacking).

Note 1: while there are rules for multiple simultaneous actions in MgT (CB page 51), I understand them as a more sporadic use (such as driving a vehicle while firing a weapon) than to really fill two positions in a ship.

Note 2: I see those skills as not full time positions, so, personally as referee, I'd allow them to be filled by any people whose position may be spared for a while, such as stewards, while surely deserving a bouns on their salaries.