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MT Trade Variant

DonM

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A long while back, I put this together, but I finally put it where others can see it.

DISCLAIMER: I have no idea where the values came from; I've had these notes around for ages.

The basic premise is to change the MT trade system by using the MT Trade Goods and giving them base values, which are then modified by the system.

http://dmckinne.winterwar.org/pdfs/MT Trade and Commerce variant.pdf

What I'm looking for are:

1) Is this a step forward or backwards for MT Trade?

2) Did I miss anything dealing with Trade?

3) What should change?

Basically, I'd like a bit of a shakeout on this, and then I'll be doing some "local playtesting" with it.
 
I was never happy with the MT/Merchant Price trade system, so if you can replace it that would be good. Okay, haven’t had a chance to look it over in detail yet, so maybe I misread something. But ...

Let’s say I want to buy some tea from a TL3 agricultural world. Base cost (T&C 4, table 10c) is Cr600. This is modified by adding (TL x Cr100), and subtracting Cr1000 for being an Ag world (T&C 5, step 3) ... total is minus Cr100. So, assuming the locals are not uncooperative they are going to pay me to take the stuff off their hands?

(Hopefully I can give this a better look over this evening.)
 
I was never happy with the MT/Merchant Price trade system, so if you can replace it that would be good. Okay, haven’t had a chance to look it over in detail yet, so maybe I misread something. But ...

Let’s say I want to buy some tea from a TL3 agricultural world. Base cost (T&C 4, table 10c) is Cr600. This is modified by adding (TL x Cr100), and subtracting Cr1000 for being an Ag world (T&C 5, step 3) ... total is minus Cr100. So, assuming the locals are not uncooperative they are going to pay me to take the stuff off their hands?

(Hopefully I can give this a better look over this evening.)

Yes, and that's why I was wanting other eyes on this than mine.

Ok, what should change here? Remove the TL impact? Change the Base Cost (presumably increasing it)? Remove the subtraction for being an Ag world?

I could even be on the wrong track. I know the Trade system in the rules has problems, and I really do want to incorporate those Trade Goods tables (why else are they there????), but perhaps there is a better way to do it than I have...
 
I've done a near-identical thing to the tables. That work was forwarded to Gareth, who used it in part for MGT core's values.

Further, I know at least 4 other people who ALSO reinvented the same procedure.
Therefore, it seems a pretty good idea.

I have some quibbles on the specific base price numbers, however... since they don't mesh with the CT/T20 numbers. EG: Bulk grain, aka foodstuffs, should be Cr300, not 400. Baled plants, thus, probably should be about 100, rather than 200... Otherwise... yeah, it's good.

Specifically, the methodology is great, and has been used again and again.
The alien trade effects table, however, needs revision, and the purchase and sale DM's should be ported in. But, by using the numbers from this, I can finish that out easily, and present an even better version that uses the availabilities of MP, but the pricing of CT/T20.

Oh, the conversions on the Alien Trade Table: instead of ±Cr1000 it should be ±20%
 
You've hit it. Those should be percentages!

And those other redos. Do you have copies you could e-mail me? I'd looked around and not seen any, and the question does keep coming up again and again, so I thought I'd finally put mine on the web.

No doubt that would let me find more bone-headed easy fixes :)

Now to go fix those percentages!
 
Thanks DonM! Nice to know I'm not the only one who felt this way about the trade and commerce chapter.

I've given them a brief playtest. You can see the results in these spreadsheets: Open Office and Excel pre-2007. I hope they are easy to follow.

I think simply adjusting base prices for various goods does the trick, and I think the percentage adjustments you've got going are really good. As you can see, I picked three characters to crew a Far Trader. None have any Mercantile skills really (they can operate a ship and serve passengers but that's about it). What it brought home to me was that you can break even on cargo and passengers and pay your crew, but it's much hard to get ahead without a little speculation. I think that's a tribute to how well-balanced Marc Miller & co.'s economics were right back to the LBB's and how well this has been carried forward.

The way I played it, I rolled for the available / nature and did up the profile of available speculative cargoes, and THEN rolled the task to find a seller - that is, the way I played it, the captain would have a good idea of the general nature and size of available cargoes, and then could decide to pursue actually purchasing one. This contrasts with freight, where pretty much all you have to do is look up the bookings and then agree. Then at the destination rolled the task after arrival to find a buyer. Let me tell you, on the Allel to Efate run, it was a near-run thing! I lucked out on the rolls after deciding to use a Broker - but thank goodness I did, that Broker-4 saved the ship's backside right on when a payment was due, even though they lost money on the trade.

What can I say? It seems to me to be a fun game to play, and if you engaged the right players who pore over maps and are trying to plan the next cargo to make that next payment, the various "jobs" that come the players' ways will be that much more attractive.

Time interacts with the rules in a very interesting way. When there was only a starport E on offer, wildnerness refueling is a major pain in the !#*$!#$& for a merchant, adding time delays when you're worried about making that next payment - hence purchasing fuel when it's available because it's just time-critical (but unrefined because that refining ability on-board saves so much money).

A couple of pieces of feedback in the detail. Firstly, the TL price modifiers must be a tough choice. How to keep a game moving balanced with results that don't quite make sense - e.g. applying TL modifiers to "processed" resources such as precious metals. Having said this, steel has been superceded by crysaliron and bonded superdense, etc. so I can see the general sense in it. Having said this, I think the modified system cures my want of more detail sufficiently while still keeping the game moving.

Secondly, I think some clarity around who-does-what is called for. If a ship has landed and is checking out freight and cargo, can a seller for cargo be found concurrently with accepting freight bookings, even if only one crew is out doing this job? I think it's reasonable that it's allowed, but that we accept that whoever is out there booking cargo, freight and passengers, it's a full time job for the week. It's the method I used here, and given that it lead to a tightly balanced economic situation, I think it's plays out in a balanced way.

Lastly, it seems to me that TL modifications for the number of major / minor / incidental lots of cargo (as opposed to freight) should not apply because, after all, the owner / captain is taking the risk when they purchase the cargo and they may not sell it at the first port of call (although obviously in this example they were done for unless they sold the cargo due to lack of liquidity).

But, basically, yeah, total thumbs up from me.
 
You might be interested in the world detail I have just put up that uses, in part, this Trade Variant. I had already had a system-specific variant broadly based on Mega Traveller / Merchant Prince with a D666 table for cargos, but your system is better than what I thought up, so I used this one (while keeping my D666 table).

Link
 
Where I just used the table they already included in MegaTraveller for determining cargos.:)
 
Trading is one of the flaws of MT

I've always thought the trade system was one of the weak points of MT (or merchant prince, by the way, as is the same).

To give you an example, let's imagine two worlds as Glisten (starport A, As, Hi, In, TL15) that can be reached in one jump:

I take my fat trader to system A. There I fill my hold with no-matter-what from that system. Its base price per ton is Cr4000. This is modifyed as seen:
A starport: -1000
As: - 1000
Hi: -1000
In: -1000
TL15: +1500

So, final price is Cr1500 per ton. My hold can have 2700 kl (200 dton), so final price for my cargo is Cr 300000 (assuming they're not too cooperative, for it can be less...).

Now I take to system B and compute the sale price. base price is 5000 with the following modifications:
As to As: + 1000
As to In: + 1000
Hi to Hi: + 1000
In to As: + 1000
In to Hi: + 1000
In to In: + 1000
TL15 to TL15: none

So, final price is Cr 11000 per ton, or Cr 2200000. Cr 1900000 is quite a good margin, isn't it? (and this is not counting the 8 HiPsg my ship can carry (another Cr 64000, almost no worth counting them...)

And a good brooker can even make it higher...

And then comes the return trip...

As a fat trader costs MCr 67.5, two jumps per month (so MCr 3.8 benefit, without counting actual price table effect)... I can buy another such ship in less than two years, and a merchant line in a decade or so...

Of course, you won't find easly two such planets at J1 distance, but from Glisten there are some attractive planets near too...
 
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Of course, you won't find easly two such planets at J1 distance, but from Glisten there are some attractive planets near too...

I've heard this termed the "Golden Pair" flaw. I was told the GT fixed it. Haven't had a chance to see how exactly.
 
Another flaw on this MT system was that the cargo was always sold. You can sell a lot of 100 ton of holovideos to a system pop 3 TL 2.
What some hundreds of renaissence tech level people whould do with those holovideos is anyone's guess...
This is partially corrected on the Knightfall adventure, wich has some new rules about trade and commerce.

There's also a variant writen by Don McKinney on the web wich corrects most (if not all) those flaws. I arrived there from the traveller downport page, but I don't remember exactly where did I find it ( I think is called MT trade and commerce).
 
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My pdf can be found at http://dmckinne.winterwar.org/pdfs/MT Trade and Commerce variant.pdf

Hope that helps. And let me know if you have any suggestions...

Sure it does. I realized you where who did the variant I mentioned after I've written my entry. Sorry for not recognizing you.
And congratulations for the variant, it's very good and fixes one of the worst flaws MT had till it came.
Before that variant, a good strategy was chartering a ship for sure profits to buy one in just a few months. Now it may happen, but probability it's quite low to have so many good strikes.
By the way, I assumed that by unloading it I didn't break any copyright. Please make me know it if I did.
 
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Totally awesome analysis, McPerth. Better than a character with Trader-5 - a player with god-like knowledge of a system!

Not trading in "different stuff" as it were always did my head in about Merchant Prince / Mega Traveller. I used to spend hours playing Taipan on my old 8-bit DOS machine hot-seating it with friends. Four commodities - wheat, guns, silk and opium.
 
Marc tells me that as long as no one is selling it, we're ok under the FFE FUP.

The sad part about MT's Trade rules is that every bit of those tables are already in the rules, they just don't combine them together (the tables are used to determine what is in the box if you open it).
 
The sad part about MT's Trade rules is that every bit of those tables are already in the rules, they just don't combine them together (the tables are used to determine what is in the box if you open it).

True, but for price considerations, you're buying/selling 'who-matters-whats' of different TLs and worlds, Just some of them are perishable, some dangerous, and so on. Other information you have is purely curiosity, with no meaning on play (unless the referee decides some are illegal in some worlds).
 
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