MT: Robots 1 - Basic Hull Design Questions #1

[snrdg082102]

I've decided to start a new thread to make things easier to follow (I hope).

Q1: Does MT: R p. 29 Volume requirements of Configurations C (Contoured) and B (Pseudo-Biological) listed as Human cover Aslan, Vargr, Zhodani, Droyne, and Darrians?

Q2: What are the Volume requirements for Hiver and K'Kree Robots using Configurations C and B?

Q3: Is the minimum Armor Protection for an Open frame configuration 0 or 1?

Per CT: Book 8 Robot p. 23 an Open frame configuration cannot have armor.

 

[OjnoTheRed]

I've decided to start a new thread to make things easier to follow (I hope).

Q1: Does MT: R p. 29 Volume requirements of Configurations C (Contoured) and B (Pseudo-Biological) listed as Human cover Aslan, Vargr, Zhodani, Droyne, and Darrians?

An excellent question - and the answer is the contoured and pseudo-bio configuration rules only apply to Humaniti (Vilani, Solomani, Zhodani, Darrian and other minor humans). Aslan, Vargr, Droyne, Hiver, K'kree, etc. etc. would all need their own restrictions / specifications for robots that could pass for their species. I'm open to suggestions!

Q2: What are the Volume requirements for Hiver and K'Kree Robots using Configurations C and B?

Sorry, didn't get that far in my thinking - what I thought I would do is put out the "common case" and then let other's imaginations take over.

Q3: Is the minimum Armor Protection for an Open frame configuration 0 or 1?

It is zero, but I have included in there a proviso that all craft are treated as having armour (3). This is an attempt to solve the "destroy the human size robot with a stick" problem and represents structural integrity that provides protection against damage, even where the robot or craft has no armoured skin and so is vulnerable to run-of-the-mill combat damage (i.e. gunfire).

 

[snrdg082102]

I've decided to start a new thread to make things easier to follow (I hope).


An excellent question - and the answer is the contoured and pseudo-bio configuration rules only apply to Humaniti (Vilani, Solomani, Zhodani, Darrian and other minor humans). Aslan, Vargr, Droyne, Hiver, K'kree, etc. etc. would all need their own restrictions / specifications for robots that could pass for their species. I'm open to suggestions!


Sorry, didn't get that far in my thinking - what I thought I would do is put out the "common case" and then let other's imaginations take over.


It is zero, but I have included in there a proviso that all craft are treated as having armour (3). This is an attempt to solve the "destroy the human size robot with a stick" problem and represents structural integrity that provides protection against damage, even where the robot or craft has no armoured skin and so is vulnerable to run-of-the-mill combat damage (i.e. gunfire).

Morning OjnoTheRed,

Thanks for the reply and almost clearing up my questions. To recap:

Q1 answer: MT: R Contoured and Pseudo-Biological configuration restrictions are for Vilani, Solomani, Zhodani, Darrian and other minor humans.

Q2 answer: K'Kree, Aslan, Vargr, Droyne, Hiver, and other non-Humaniti forms are pending with help from the masses at large.

Q3 answer: Open-Frame configurations cannot have external Armor added to the base structure. All Robots base structure have an Armor protection of 3 against run-of-the-mill combat like gunfire, being beaten with a stick, or hacked at by a sharp implement like a sword. I don't consider gunfire to be a melee or brawling weapon per MT: R p. 20.

New Question or Questions:

Q4: How where the parameters for the human contoured and pseudo-biological configurations determined?

 

[E.D.Quibell]

Morning OjnoTheRed,

Thanks for the reply and almost clearing up my questions. To recap:

Q1 answer: MT: R Contoured and Pseudo-Biological configuration restrictions are for Vilani, Solomani, Zhodani, Darrian and other minor humans.

As written yes.

Q2 answer: K'Kree, Aslan, Vargr, Droyne, Hiver, and other non-Humaniti forms are pending with help from the masses at large.

Not as such. They just need to conform to the size and shape of each sophant species. A Vargr must look like a Vargr, a K'kree and K'kree etc etc. Find out how large each is and apply yourself, with variation within each speciese.

Q3 answer: Open-Frame configurations cannot have external Armor added to the base structure. All Robots base structure have an Armor protection of 3 against run-of-the-mill combat like gunfire, being beaten with a stick, or hacked at by a sharp implement like a sword. I don't consider gunfire to be a melee or brawling weapon per MT: R p. 20.

Page 57 of the Referees Manual "Open Frame: An open skeletal frame with no exterior covering"

If you add armour to it, it would become some other configuration because you were enclosing it. You can make the frame armour 40, but that won't stop you being shot much.

New Question or Questions:

Q4: How where the parameters for the human contoured and pseudo-biological configurations determined?

Why? Do you think it should be different?

Best regards,

Ewan

 

[snrdg082102]

Howdy Ewan, a.k.a. E.D.Quibell,

At least I clearly stated one of three recaps correctly. The following is another attempt to see if I have a handle on the answers provided by OjnoTheRed.

The recap of the answer to Question 2 appears to have been as clear as mud.

Clarification: The Configuration parameters, Body volume of pseudo-biological, Head/Leg Volume %, and arms restrictions for K'Kree, Aslan, Vargr, Droyne, Hiver, and other non-Humaniti lifeforms using Contoured or Pseudo-Biological aren't available. OjnoTheRed has the ball rolling on the parameters and is more than willing to get help from the COTI members at large.

Man, the puddle is really stirred up since my recap for Question 3 appears to have made the water murkier. The question concerned Open Frame, Armor protection, and MT: Robots supplement comment about for game purposes of having am armor protections value of 3 against melee and brawling weapons.

Clarification: I think Popular Science or Mechanics showed a vehicle that had four or six legs with the gears and other stuff exposed. The operator's station was an open cab. Since everything is open to view the vehicle is basically a skeleton. This, at least in my view, is an open frame type of configuration. Hiding all the bits under plating or external armor would change the configuration from open frame to one of the other configuration types.

OjnoTheRed tried to clarify that for combat purposes any craft with an exposed internal/skeletal structure has an armor protection value of 3 "against run-of-the-mill combat damage (i.e. gunfire)." The MT: Robots supplement on p. 20 states that the value is "only effective against melee and brawling weapons." Gunfire, at least to me, is not from a melee or brawling weapon.

Apparently, again, I wasn't very clear on Question 4 concerning the Configuration parameters for Humaniti life forms.

Clarification, I hope: On p. 20 of MT: Robots e-book you have the following parameters: (1) Body, Head, and Locomotion Volume; (2) Arm restrictions, and (3) the number of legs for Contoured and Pseudo-biological.

Where did or how were the volume range for a pseudo-biological and the percentages determined?

 

[E.D.Quibell]

Howdy Ewan, a.k.a. E.D.Quibell,

At least I clearly stated one of three recaps correctly. The following is another attempt to see if I have a handle on the answers provided by OjnoTheRed.

The recap of the answer to Question 2 appears to have been as clear as mud.

Clarification: The Configuration parameters, Body volume of pseudo-biological, Head/Leg Volume %, and arms restrictions for K'Kree, Aslan, Vargr, Droyne, Hiver, and other non-Humaniti lifeforms using Contoured or Pseudo-Biological aren't available. OjnoTheRed has the ball rolling on the parameters and is more than willing to get help from the COTI members at large.

I'm sure Johnathan would be happy to help, but I'm not sure if he's working on it. However having said that the whole MT design system is human bias. There are no seperate rules for K'Kree, Aslan, Vargr, Droyne, Hiver, and other non-Humaniti lifeforms controls or workstations, accomodations etc. You could probably assume that Vargr and Aslan are roughly the same as human, but the others might be questionable. Would you like to suggest some approprate sizes?

Man, the puddle is really stirred up since my recap for Question 3. The question concerned Open Frame, Armor protection, and MT: Robots supplement comment about for game purposes of having am armor protections value of 3 against melee and brawling weapons.

Clarification: I think Popular Science or Mechanics showed a vehicle that had four or six legs with the gears and other stuff exposed. The operator's station was an open cab. Since everything is open to view the vehicle is basically a skeleton. This, at least in my view, is an open frame type of configuration. Hiding all the bits under plating or external armor would change the configuration from open frame to one of the other configuration types.

I agree on the config stuff.

OjnoTheRed tried to clarify that for combat purposes any craft with an exposed internal/skeletal structure has an armor protection value of 3 "against run-of-the-mill combat damage (i.e. gunfire)." The MT: Robots supplement on p. 20 states that the value is "only effective against melee and brawling weapons." Gunfire, at least to me, is not from a melee or brawling weapon.

I'd agree.

Apparently, again, I wasn't very clear on Question 4 concerning the Configuration parameters for Humaniti life forms.

Clarification, I hope: On p. 20 of MT: Robots e-book you have the following parameters: (1) Body, Head, and Locomotion Volume; (2) Arm restrictions, and (3) the number of legs for Contoured and Pseudo-biological.

Where did or how were the volume range for a pseudo-biological and the percentages determined?

I'd guess that they are about right for the diverse range of humans throughout chartered space, from Geonee to Sydite, however I don't know where they came from, although 100 and 150 liters are given as adult human torso and large torso size in Book 8, and 10 is given as infant human torso size. Do you have a better idea about the volume and percentage range?

Best regards,

Ewan

 

[snrdg082102]

Afternoon Ewan,

Once I get a handle on the design sequence, figure out how the use OpenOffice Calc, not to mention Jonathan's Robot Calc spreadsheet, and maybe complete one in Excel 2000 I'll try my hand at working out the parameters for the non-Humaniti groups.

I'm not real ambitious or have anytime on my hands.

For the Humaniti parameters I was not thinking about changing them I was just trying to figure out how they were selected. If I knew how or where the parameters where obtained I might have a better chance at suggesting the ranges for the other beings in the TU.

Thanks for the comments and assistance in getting a handle on the design system

 

[E.D.Quibell]

For the Humaniti parameters I was thinking about changing them I was just trying to figure out how they were selected. If I knew how or where the parameters where obtained I might have a better chance at suggesting the ranges for the other beings in the TU.

No worries. By all means change them and post what you have come up with.

Thanks for the comments and assistance in getting a handle on the design system

You're welcome. I'm still learning the system and I've been desiging stuff with it for years!

Best regards,

Ewan

 

[snrdg082102]

No worries. By all means change them and post what you have come up with.



You're welcome. I'm still learning the system and I've been designing stuff with it for years!

Best regards,

Ewan

Web Gremlins removed a word in my original post. I don't have, at least at this time, any ideas to change the Humaniti parameters. I've corrected the omission.

I'm bouncing between most of the Traveller design systems, T5 is not one yet, and other systems like SpaceMaster, BT, Star Trek,. I've even got around looking at the design system for the Serenity RPG.

Thanks again Ewan.

 

[OjnoTheRed]

Wow, this thread moved fast!

Firstly, my first post wasn't worded very well.

On the "open frame" question, firstly: Ewan has answered this more clearly than I did. My apologies Hazard of posting when you're tired!

I also really confused things about the (3) rating. Yes, what that rating means is that all craft (including those with open frame) have an armour rating of (3) which means effective only against blade and brawling weapons.

There was a lengthy discussion in the original "Squaring Robots with MegaTraveller" thread about hit points for robots. The problem is this. With the existing craft rules, a 500 litre craft (i.e. something five times the volume of human who would is rated as obese by BMI for a male of average height) has hit points of 1/1. It would probably have a mass of around 400kg to 600kg. And if it was open frame, the personal combat rules say that a club (penetration 2, damage 2), if it hit, would destroy this robot in one swipe.

A rifle butt wiping out half a ton of machinery such that it is considered destroyed? Not very satisfactory. A large blade, perhaps, could be expected to penetrate and do damage to such a thing, but it would surely need a bit more effort with a cudgel.

Various damage point schemes were proposed. In my view they complicated things, and in the end I made the call to stick with the original craft design hit point calculation (albeit multiplying all values by 10 per the errata, but BEFORE the division by 15 or 6 - i.e. volume of craft in kilolitres / 15 times 10). But to account for the "club wiping out the half ton robot" scenario, added in the rule about them having an armour of (3) - i.e. the robot is still very vulnerable to gunfire.

I hope that sufficiently clarifies my original post.

 

[snrdg082102]

Morning OjnoTheRed,

No problem that is why I try to recap answers to make sure I had a handle on them.

I have to admit that combat resolution on the personal or vehicle, like starships, scale is but a vague and fragmented memory. Not to mentioned blurred by other game system rules.

I won't quibble over the current clarified rules since Marc Miller stamped an Okay on them.

A solution used in either a couple of different gaming system or a Traveller variant modified personal weapon damage by 0.1 when used against a craft/vehicle. A melee or brawling weapon, a club for example, causes 2 damage against another person. Against a craft, in this case a Robot, the same club would cause 0.2 damage not enough to totally wreck the Robot. On the downside there would be more record keeping to keep track of the total damage taken versus the Robots/Craft total Hull Damage Points.

I'm sure that some of the other gaming systems use a different factor when scaling personal/melee weapons damage against craft/vehicles but it is easier for me to remember 0.1.