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MT Only: MT Referee's Manual Extended System Generation Part 2

snrdg082102

SOC-14 1K
Hello again,

In the MT version of the Extended System Generation I am getting hung up Steps 11 and 12.

When working on a solo star system the process appears to the Step 4 Primary Star Type and Size, Step 5 Decimal Classification, Step 11 Maximum Orbits.

Step 12 Available Orbits has me baffled for both a solo and companions on how the table works. I am hoping that someone can provide an example or two showing how use the table.

Flow 1. In a star system with companions the process appears to be determine the primary's characteristics using Steps 4 and 5 then going to Steps 6 and back to 5 for companions' characteristics. What has me stumped is how to progress through the chart.

Flow 2. The way the process looks I go to Step 7, Step 10 once for the each companion that is a far companion, and then Step 11 which is repeated for the primary and each companion.

Following Flow 2 and rolling for a companion's orbit before determining the maximum orbits of the primary I got a companion in orbit 14 and the primary with a maximum of 10 orbits. Without being sizes Ia, Ib, II, or III the maximum number of orbits a primary can have a maximum of 12 orbits.

What am I overlooking in the process?
 
Step 12 is actually pretty easy.

If a star has a companion star, you use this step.

The first column is the orbit of star #2.

The second column is orbits available around star #1, but inside star #2's orbit.
The third column is orbits available around star #1, but past star #2.

The fourth column is what's around star #2.

to restate it as unavailable orbits:
Orbit
Number
of Star B
Star A
Unavailable
orbits
Star B
unavailable
Orbits
00-1all
11-21+
22-32+
32-42+
43-53+
53-63+
64-74+
74-84+
85-95+
95-105+
106-116+
116-126+
127-137+
 
Evening PDT aramis,

Thank you for your continued assistance in trying to keep me on track with the various Traveller variants. I am still not getting a warm fuzzy feeling on for MT Extended System Generation Step 12. I will see if I am heading in the right direction.

Step 12 is actually pretty easy.

If a star has a companion star, you use this step.

The first column is the orbit of star #2.

The second column is orbits available around star #1, but inside star #2's orbit.
The third column is orbits available around star #1, but past star #2.

The fourth column is what's around star #2.

to restate it as unavailable orbits:
Orbit
Number
of Star B
Star A
Unavailable
orbits
Star B
unavailable
Orbits
00-1all
11-21+
22-32+
32-42+
43-53+
53-63+
64-74+
74-84+
85-95+
95-105+
106-116+
116-126+
127-137+

Prior to generating the Companion Orbit I jumped to Step 11 and established that the and came up with 12 orbits.

In Step 7 my result set the Companion in the Primary's 6th orbital position.

Step 12 Available orbits table indicates that planets can be placed between the Companion and in the Primary's Orbital positions 0, 1, 2, and 3. Additionally planets can be placed in the Primary's Orbital positions of 8 to 12. Finally, but I'm not sure when the Companion's maximum orbits got created, the Companion can place planets in orbital positions 0, 1, 2, and 3.

Looking at Step 46 and the Orbital Distances Table I'm guessing that the orbits available around the Companion occupies the area between Primary Orbits 5 and 7 centered from Orbit 6.

Even after going through the steps I'm still not feeling I'm on the right track.
 
Evening PDT aramis,

Thank you for your continued assistance in trying to keep me on track with the various Traveller variants. I am still not getting a warm fuzzy feeling on for MT Extended System Generation Step 12. I will see if I am heading in the right direction.



Prior to generating the Companion Orbit I jumped to Step 11 and established that the and came up with 12 orbits.

In Step 7 my result set the Companion in the Primary's 6th orbital position.

Step 12 Available orbits table indicates that planets can be placed between the Companion and in the Primary's Orbital positions 0, 1, 2, and 3. Additionally planets can be placed in the Primary's Orbital positions of 8 to 12. Finally, but I'm not sure when the Companion's maximum orbits got created, the Companion can place planets in orbital positions 0, 1, 2, and 3.

Looking at Step 46 and the Orbital Distances Table I'm guessing that the orbits available around the Companion occupies the area between Primary Orbits 5 and 7 centered from Orbit 6.

Even after going through the steps I'm still not feeling I'm on the right track.

Don't skip to 12.

In step 7, you got the companion at orbit 6. The "maximum orbits" don't matter for placing stars. Which is why maximum orbits are generated later, in 11.


Here's a better way to cope with it... but it's going to use some scratch paper:

At step 7, write the following:
Star A Orbits
0
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15

Since in 7, we know the companion is in 6, we add the companion
Star A Orbits
0
1
2
3
4
5
6 Star B
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
Star B Orbits


In step 11, we find the primary's maximum orbits. Let's say, 12, in this case. ANd for B, we got 5
Star A Orbits
0
1
2
3
4
5
6 Star B
7
8
9
10
11
12
13+ Empty
Star B Orbits
0
1
2
3
4
5
6+ Empty

In step 12, we knock out the unavailable orbits of the primary and add B's potential orbits. (Since B is in 6, orbits 4+ are unavailable to it, so we only write 0-3)
Star A A2V Orbits
0
1
2
3
4 Empty
5 Empty
6 Star B
7 Empty
8
9
10
11
12
13+ Empty
Star B G2VI Orbits
0
1
2
3
4 Empty
5 Empty
6 Empty

Then, in 13, we label the zones.

Star A A2V Orbits
0 IZ
1 IZ
2 IZ
3 IZ
4 Empty
5 Empty
6 Star B
7 Empty (HZ)
8 OZ
9 OZ
10 OZ
11 OZ
12 OZ
13+ Empty
Star B G2VI Orbits
0 IZ
1 IZ
2 HZ
3 OZ
4 Empty
5 Empty
6+ Empty
Now, if doing continuation, we know where the mainworld goes. B orbit 2 - because it's the hab zone.

Now, if the system had been a companion B in orbit 4 and C in orbit 17:
The primary loses orbits 3, 4, and 5 (due to B)
The primary loses orbits 9-18 due to C.
So it looks like
Star A Orbits
0
1
2
3 - Empty
4 Star B
5 - Empty
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17 Star C
Star B Orbits
0
1
2
Star C Orbits
0
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
before we roll for maximum orbits. If we get, say, 3 available for A, and 7 for B and 7 for C, we get:

Star A Orbits
0
1
2
3 - Empty
4 Star B
5 - Empty
6 - Empty
7 - Empty
8 - Empty
9 - Empty
10 - Empty
11 - Empty
12 - Empty
13 - Empty
14 - Empty
15 - Empty
16 - Empty
17 Star C

Star B Orbits
0
1
2
Star C Orbits
0
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8 Empty
 
For clarity -

Stars are placed by the stellar placement.

The maximum orbits generated in step 11 only affect planet placement.

The flow is Step 1
Step 2
Step 3
Step 4
Step 5
Step 6 as many times as needed (none, once, or twice, based upon step 3 results)
Step 7 as many times as needed (none, once, or twice, again based upon step 3 results) - this puts our stars down.
Step 8
Step 9 & 10 - if a far companion was generated, it's essentially Do 5-7 for it, as well, treating it like a primary. (Since companions of a companion star roll at DM-4, they can't themselves have far companions)
Step 11 for every star (1 to 7 stars - yes, it's possible you can have a septinary system, which would be a trinary with both companions being far, and both of those having trinary configurations)
Step 12 once - tho it's effects checked for every star.
Step 13 once for each star.
 
Last edited:
This leads me to a couple potential errata items

Step 9
A roll of 1 is Orbit 14, 2 and 3 are orbit 15, and 4-5-6 are orbit 16

So Step 11 should have additional:
OrbitOrbits A inside BOrbits A outside BOrbits B
130-615+0-6
1KAU (14)0-716+0-7
2KAU (15)
3KAU (15)
0-717+0-7
4KAU (16)
5KAU (16)
6KAU (16)
0-818+0-8

Also note: a size II can have stuff out to (potentially) orbit 20... But that stuff is VERY weakly bound.

Oh, and the formula -
Orbits A Inside B - maximum orbit is B's orbit/2, round down.
Orbits A Beyond B - first available outside B is B+2.
Orbiting B - same as maximum inside B's orbit.

And I just noticed the errata makes it impossible to get septenary systems - quinternary is the limit due to companions using a -1 on the table from step 3.
 
Morning (0414 PDT) aramis,
Now I have an explanation, in three parts, that is clearing up all the hazy bits of the process so far which I thank you for taking the time to do.

This leads me to a couple potential errata items

Step 9
A roll of 1 is Orbit 14, 2 and 3 are orbit 15, and 4-5-6 are orbit 16

MegaTraveller Consolidated Errata version 2.21 (02/23/2013) may alter the suggested submission

Page 26, Step 7, Companion Orbit (correction and clarification): Rather than determining the companion star’s orbit distance in AU (steps 8 and 9), Change the Far result to "Far (13+1D)" to determine the companion star’s orbit number (see the Orbital Distances Table, below). This also eliminates steps 8 and 9.

To help smooth out my replies I am creating the following index

Part 1 = Post 4 05/30/2014 0930
Part 2 = Post 5 05/30/2014 0940
Part 3 = Post 6 05/30/2014 1013

Part 1
The first comment made was "Don't skip to 12" which I understand after re-reading my post. > indicates the direction of flow

The process, which I left out, that I followed was

Try 1: Step 1 > 2 > 3 = Binary > 4 > 5 > 6 > 5 > 7 = Companion Orbit 6 > 12 > 11 = Max of 5 orbits.

Thinking that Step 12 met the maximum total orbits around the Primary to place companion stars, planets, gas giants, and planetoid belts I made my second try leaving everything in the same place except for Step 11 and re-rolling the 2D which made the process look like this:

Try 2: Step 1 > 2 > 3 = Binary > 4 > 5 > 11= Max of 12 orbits > 6 > 5 > 7 = Companion Orbit 6 > 12

Since Step 7 didn't result in positioning the companion in a far orbit Steps 8, 9, which are eliminated by the errata, and 10 where skipped. Not being sure when I should determine the Companion star's maximum orbits I skipped Step 11 and went to 12.

The first table column created in Part 1 of the reply is how I visualized the orbital positions around the Primary. Inserting the Companion star to the Primary column and adding the column for the Companion is what I was thinking about, even though I process summary didn't say.

As indicated I only performed Step 11 for the Primary prior to determining the Companion star's characteristics. Your process appears to be better

Where I parted company with the process in Part 1 was by setting the Companion star's Orbital Position 0 at the Primary star's Orbital Position 6. My reasoning was Orbital Position 0 for the Companion would start there, which appears to have been out to lunch.

From there the example in Part 1 makes more sense and will become even more clear after I follow the process a few more times. I'm a bit slow on the uptake.;-)

The fourth table in the example for Part 1 has the Companion star's characteristics as G2 VI. The MegaTraveller errata makes the following change:

Page 26, Step 6, Companion Star Type and Size (correction and addition): Note that because any roll for either Type or Size will have a modifier of at least +2 from the primary star, the table needs to be modified for results with a die roll of 4 through 14. Change all occurrences of star size VI to V. Unless the primary star is II, III, or IV, change all "D" results to star size V.

Part 2

Coupling Part 2 with Part 1 the process is close to what I already had in mind, with the exception I hadn't gotten to Step 13.

Using the errata quoted above Steps 8 and 9 are skipped.

I was wondering how many stars might be generated in a system with a couple of far companions.

Yippee, I'm now on Part 3

So Step 11 should have additional:
OrbitOrbits A inside BOrbits A outside BOrbits B
130-615+0-6
1KAU (14)0-716+0-7
2KAU (15)
3KAU (15)
0-717+0-7
4KAU (16)
5KAU (16)
6KAU (16)
0-818+0-8
Also note: a size II can have stuff out to (potentially) orbit 20... But that stuff is VERY weakly bound.
Oh, and the formula -
Orbits A Inside B - maximum orbit is B's orbit/2, round down.
Orbits A Beyond B - first available outside B is B+2.
Orbiting B - same as maximum inside B's orbit.
And I just noticed the errata makes it impossible to get septenary systems - quinternary is the limit due to companions using a -1 on the table from step 3.

Does either of the errata entries I quoted earlier have any effect on the possible errata you are thinking about?

Thanks for the help, looks like I was heading far out into left field.
 
Morning (0414 PDT) aramis,
Now I have an explanation, in three parts, that is clearing up all the hazy bits of the process so far which I thank you for taking the time to do.



Does either of the errata entries I quoted earlier have any effect on the possible errata you are thinking about?

Thanks for the help, looks like I was heading far out into left field.

Your underlying problem was not realizing that stars ignore & modify the maximum orbits, but are not limited by the maximum orbits.
 
Early afternoon PDT to you aramis,

Your underlying problem was not realizing that stars ignore & modify the maximum orbits, but are not limited by the maximum orbits.

The maximum orbits is part of the problem, the other part was thinking that a Companion star's orbit zone starts at the location of the companion.

Again thank you aramis for the help.
 
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