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Many contemporary versions - why?

C

cym0k

SOC-12
Silly question really.

MgT is popular and it seems to have material released for it still.
CT is being reprinted and is available via RPGnow etc.
T5 is available from FFE.
All of Traveller is available digitally from Marc at FFE.

And now there is LiftOff!!

Does this not just throw chaff across the radar screen as far as "which version of Traveller should I play?" CT and MgT are kind of similar and mostly go in the same direction, and LiftOff simplifies things. But then there is MT, TNE, T5.

Yes, it is nice to have your own little niche and own version to play, but it seems really odd considering T5 is supposed to be the be all and end all toolbox edition. Surely LiftOff should derive from this?

Am I making this all a bit too complicated? Currently it seems like the choices for playing Traveller are MgT, CT, T5 and now LiftOff.


Somebody school me on the current trends in Traveller. It all seems a bit messy and chaotic when unity would probably be best.
 
Liftoff! isn't technically a separate version. It's supposed to be a Starter Set of MgT. What's confusing is that it probably should have been done about 5 years ago.
 
Spinward Scout said:
Liftoff! isn't technically a separate version. It's supposed to be a Starter Set of MgT. What's confusing is that it probably should have been done about 5 years ago.
Click to expand...

The released draft has a number of substantial differences from MGT. Whether those survive or not is to be determined. But given the differences, I'm treating it for board purposes as a separate edition until the release of the final - when I'll reevaluate.

Most "starter sets" have the same task system as their parent game. Liftoff doesn't.

That the character generation is so very different... it's not always a new edition issue, but in this case, it sure looks like it.

We'll just have to wait and see.
 
cym0k said:
Does this not just throw chaff across the radar screen as far as "which version of Traveller should I play?"
Click to expand...

It certainly seems to.

In thinking about it, I look at it this way:

CT and T5 exist to serve niche audiences.
MgT's purpose is to serve as the lead Traveller product line.

Where Liftoff falls in this scheme I'm unsure except that it would seem to be one more attempt to create interest in the game, possibly through yet another ruleset (maybe?).

Conventional business wisdom would call for there to be one product line so as not to dilute interest in the game but we live in a brave new gaming world where the rules are changing . . .
 
Silly answer. Why not?
Why not give the people what they want?
If some want CT, give them that.
Freedom of choice is a huge benefit, it includes people instead of excluding them, from my point of view, so why limit gamers to the current version?
 
I think having multiple versions is good. Gives the ref and the players more choices.

I see plenty of players in my area still playing older games.
 
As a referee, I tend to use a 'house-blend' of Traveller, steeped strongly in it's Classic roots but supplementing such with updates-revisions that enhance and clarify the flavor of the game.

For those whom also play-referee the less technology-driven game, Dungeons & Dragons, that sort blending is the only way to survive the seemingly-endless redrafts and reconstructions that have plagued the magical 'realm'.
 
This recurring question just feels to me like one of those things people worry about affecting other people, rather than a real problem.

New players are going to pick up either what their group is playing or what they see on the shelf. They'll give it a whirl, if they like it they'll go further then discover there's all this other stuff out there. I don't think someone's going to balk because there's more than one version and they don't know which to get. Regardless of whether the shelf is physical or electronic.

Most new players probably won't discriminate between editions, anyway, but run a mash-up of whatever appeals to them. After some play they may notice that some things mix well and others don't. When they'll either houserule or start worrying about editions.

Regardless, we're all just speculating about what other people will do as a group, which isn't the most productive activity. ;)

What's more important is how well a new product presents itself in terms of production quality and editing, I think, than how strongly it breaks with earlier editions in terms of mechanics.
 
spinwardpirate said:
Silly answer. Why not?
Why not give the people what they want?
If some want CT, give them that.
Freedom of choice is a huge benefit, it includes people instead of excluding them, from my point of view, so why limit gamers to the current version?
Click to expand...

I agree about choice.

Unfortunately the Traveller community pretty much negates this "free choice" with canon; latest printing obviates, not augments, old. Then the phrase "but do what you want in YTU". Like we need permission.

I'd like to see all editions supported, not just reprinted.

I'm a die hard CT fan/player and only use things from other editions that augment CT (though at times those that "correct" faulty logic. :CoW:)

An example might be an Engineers Shop, staffed full time (extra crew position(s)), allowing a plus on a ship repair roll. Another T5 "fix"* in allowing ganged drives, particularly Power Plants, so as to allow CT ships to use HG2 energy consuming devices and weapons.

*See Don? I said something good about T5.:D​
 
saundby said:
This recurring question just feels to me like one of those things people worry about affecting other people, rather than a real problem.

New players are going to pick up either what their group is playing or what they see on the shelf. They'll give it a whirl, if they like it they'll go further then discover there's all this other stuff out there. I don't think someone's going to balk because there's more than one version and they don't know which to get. Regardless of whether the shelf is physical or electronic.

Most new players probably won't discriminate between editions, anyway, but run a mash-up of whatever appeals to them. After some play they may notice that some things mix well and others don't. When they'll either houserule or start worrying about editions.

Regardless, we're all just speculating about what other people will do as a group, which isn't the most productive activity. ;)

What's more important is how well a new product presents itself in terms of production quality and editing, I think, than how strongly it breaks with earlier editions in terms of mechanics.
Click to expand...

Prior experience says you're wrong on almost all counts (except new players picking up what's on the shelf).

What and how many differences is the number one gripe for the last 20 years of both fans and newbs alike. #2 used to be the inaccessibility of the CT and MT canon; the BFB's and CD's were to take care of that. #3 for the newbs used to be that retailers didn't keep it in stock; now, at least elsewhere, the #3 seems to be the multiple editions (GT, GTIW, MGT, T5), and most grogs responding to new refs along the lines of "If you play GURPS3, get GT, GURPS 4, GTIW, anything else, MGT." For new players, it's almost always "Ask your Ref."
#3 complaint for the grogs seems to be "My favorite edition has bad OCR on the CD."

Most of the newbs I've met don't do mashups. At least, not the way grogs do. Many WILL revise a ruleset - but it's done by starting with the SRD, and keeping a "living rulebook" for their campaign. And if it goes far enough afield, publishing it.

Mongoose proves editing quality isn't really that important. And that even bad art doesn't hurt sales much.

SJG has had lame art for decades, and still sells.

Palladium Books has had a bad system and lousy editing for decades, but great art... and it still sells. (Note that an employee of PB embezzeled between $800K and $1.3M... over about 5 years. Impressive on multiple levels - 1 - that PB had that kind of money, 2 - that KS didn't notice for years, 3 - that PB managed to remain in business despite it. KS may be a bit of an ass, but he's a good artist, and a good settings guy, and has been doing PB since 1981.)

So the question of whether Liftoff is "Mongoose Light", "Mongoose Compatible", or "Yet another edition" is still up in the air, and is a viable and not unimportant question.

It looks like MJD was writing for "Mongoose Compatible" rather than "Mongoose Light".
 
Somebody school me on the current trends in Traveller. It all seems a bit messy and chaotic when unity would probably be best.
Click to expand...

it's really very simple. anyone capable of playing traveller is capable of playing it their own way with their own rules. most do. but those legally in control of "traveller" seek to corner the market. so they publish ruleset after ruleset trying to corner the market on the game. but they can't.

that's all.

(another factor contributing to this is many people talk about traveller but seldom play it. to them it's more of an alternate universe than a game.)
 
flykiller said:
(another factor contributing to this is many people talk about traveller but seldom play it. to them it's more of an alternate universe than a game.)
Click to expand...

I agree with you on this fact, but the reasons are many: too little leisure time, or what leisure time is available gets prioritized for kids and family, or no gamer friends in new area and not sociable enough to go out and find some...

For me, I spent about 20 years (law school, marriage, moving around, children...) without time to play, buying mostly GURPS Traveller to read just because I didn't like what I saw of TNE, until finally my boys were old enough to be interested in playing.
 
Last edited:
aramis said:
Mongoose proves editing quality isn't really that important. And that even bad art doesn't hurt sales much.
Click to expand...

Being the only show in town didn't hurt either.

They were publishing "new material" rather than just reprints. (Much was just rehash with a twist though.) I think this kept Traveller going.

flykiller said:
... but those legally in control of "traveller" seek to corner the market. so they publish ruleset after ruleset trying to corner the market on the game...
Click to expand...

I both like, and agree, with the cynicism.
 
Vladika said:
Being the only show in town didn't hurt either.
Click to expand...
But they weren't.

T20 was stalling, sure.
GT was going strong.
HT was just about to release and renew.

D20 Future had also been released, and SW Saga Ed was at its heights.
 
spinwardpirate said:
By 2008, when MgT was printed, GT hadn't had a published book in two years time. After a very nice run under GURPS 3e, GT completely stalled under GURPS 4th edition.
Click to expand...

Except for the online magazine JTAS.
But it is really sad that there is near to nothing for G4.
That is forcing me to assemble the parts myself from the toolbox that is GURPS.
 
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