OTU Only: Looking for a list of worlds with the "Sa" Classifcation (Sa Satellite))

[Commander Truestar]

Hi Folks,

I found a thread where tjoneslo posted that they had a list of the worlds which should have the "Sa" code in the Spinward Marches..

While tjoneslo was asked to post the Marches data, the only data posted in that thread was for the Dagudashaag Sector.

I searched for any sign of a related post with the Marches data but did not find it.

Does anyone know of a list of the Sa-coded worlds in the Marches?

Thanks in Advance

 

[sudnadja]

Hi Folks,

I found a thread where tjoneslo posted that they had a list of the worlds which should have the "Sa" code in the Spinward Marches..

While tjoneslo was asked to post the Marches data, the only data posted in that thread was for the Dagudashaag Sector.

I searched for any sign of a related post with the Marches data but did not find it.

Does anyone know of a list of the Sa-coded worlds in the Marches?

Thanks in Advance

Do you mean worlds from travellermap that are in the Spaniard Marches that have the Sa code?

I only see three, Regina, Saurus and Dinom. There are 151 throughout travellermap. The Spinward Marches are somewhat underrepresented. There are 33 in the Cano (Canopus?) sector.

 

[ovka]

Searching TravellerMap.com using the criteria "remark:Sa in:SPIN" returns 2 results, Regina (SPIN 1910) and Dinom (SPIN 1811).

Cheers,

Baron Ovka

 

[sudnadja]

Searching TravellerMap.com using the criteria "remark:Sa in:SPIN" returns 2 results, Regina (SPIN 1910) and Dinom (SPIN 1811).

Cheers,

Baron Ovka

Ah, you are correct, I caught "Saurians" as matching Sa. So 2 in spinward marches, 146 total.

 

[sudnadja]

Searching TravellerMap.com using the criteria "remark:Sa in:SPIN" returns 2 results, Regina (SPIN 1910) and Dinom (SPIN 1811).

Cheers,

Baron Ovka

Incidentally, the distribution of those Satellite worlds does not appear to be uniform across the imperium:

 

[robject]

I believe there is no programmatic way to determine if a world should have the 'Sa' code. The only pre-requisite is that gas giants must be present, but that doesn't mean the conditions are met.

It seems to me that it would be a rare thing for a mainworld to orbit a gas giant, where "rare" means something like p<0.05. One in twelve (2D<=3)? One in eighteen (2D = 3)? One in thirty-six (2D = 2)?

Put another way:

Three per subsector?
Two per subsector?
One per subsector?
Fewer?

Oh, I detect a poll.

 

[tjoneslo]

Hi Folks,

I found a thread where tjoneslo posted that they had a list of the worlds which should have the "Sa" code in the Spinward Marches..

While tjoneslo was asked to post the Marches data, the only data posted in that thread was for the Dagudashaag Sector.

I searched for any sign of a related post with the Marches data but did not find it.

Does anyone know of a list of the Sa-coded worlds in the Marches?

Thanks in Advance

None of the stellar generation systems include setting an "Sa" code as part of the process. This is entirely an author's choice about where to put the homeworld.

The reason there are some/many in Dagudashaag is because Library Data authors for Signal-GK and Encyclopedia Dagudashaag wrote their entries to include the descriptions of Sa worlds. I simply updated the Traveller Map data to include that where appropriate.

There are enough images of worlds circling Jupiter, Saturn, or other (more imaginary) gas giants that it gives a good feel for an "alien" world. Even it's as unlikely a world with two or three giant moons.

 

[agorski]

None of the stellar generation systems include setting an "Sa" code as part of the process. This is entirely an author's choice about where to put the homeworld.

Actually, in T5 you roll Flux for Type. If the result is -5 or -4, the Type is Far Satellite, which gives you an Sa remark.

 

[BRJN]

There are enough images of worlds circling Jupiter, Saturn, or other (more imaginary) gas giants that it gives a good feel for an "alien" world. Even it's as unlikely a world with two or three giant moons.

I've seen art for a GG that looks like Jupiter, has Saturn's rings, orbits in the habitable zone, has multiple Earth-like moons.
Somehow the artist did not name this world "Jackpot".

 

[sudnadja]

Actually, in T5 you roll Flux for Type. If the result is -5 or -4, the Type is Far Satellite, which gives you an Sa remark.

Interestingly, the following worlds:
"Shulasgu", "Coriolanus", "Harlan", "Ninoiphl", "Zaack"

appear to have the Sa code but no gas giants (The "G" part of the PBG field is 0 - implying a rocky, larger world as a primary?)

 

[tjoneslo]

Interestingly, the following worlds:
"Shulasgu", "Coriolanus", "Harlan", "Ninoiphl", "Zaack"

appear to have the Sa code but no gas giants (The "G" part of the PBG field is 0 - implying a rocky, larger world as a primary?)

That is also possible. The Sa code isn't limited to Gas Giants.

 

[Garnfellow]

Incidentally, the distribution of those Satellite worlds does not appear to be uniform across the imperium:

The vast majority of the Imperial data was generated using older systems and did not distinguish satellite mainworlds.

The Solomani Rim satellites were determined for Rim of Fire using, I believe, a modification of GURPS: First In rules.

I generated those rimward Confederation sectors using T5, which is why there are so many satellites there. (As well as tide-locked worlds.)

 

[Garnfellow]

I thought I had gone through GURPS Traveller: Behind the Claw, which like Rim of Fire denoted satellite mainworlds. I would have posted the results to the T5SS thread, but I'll be darned if I can find it.

Reportedly, BtC has been decanonized which is maybe why I didn't bother.

But for what it's worth, here's BtC's list of satellite mainworlds:

• Reno (0102)
• Gesentown (0303)
• Terra Nova (0511)
• Anselhome (0820)
• 886-945 (0230)
• Jinx (0440)
• Froin (0539)
• Ralhe (0731)
• Ao-dai (1201)
• Choleosti (1018)
• Edinina (1213)
• Inchin (0938)
• Datrillian (1331)
• Regina (1910)
• Rethe (2408)
• Ghandi (1815)
• Icetina (2418)
• Quiru (2321)
• Zila (2908)
• Kinorb (2512)

 

[Garnfellow]

I believe there is no programmatic way to determine if a world should have the 'Sa' code.

There really isn't, but we could make some inferences:

• Obviously, size 0 worlds don't qualify as satellites.
• Assuming tide-locked planets (including gas giants) are very unlikely to form moons, worlds in orbit 0 or 1 are likely planets.
• Worlds with breathable atmospheres (4-9) are probably orbiting in either HZ-1, HZ, or HZ+1.
• That suggests that most worlds with breathable atmospheres orbiting main sequence M or K stars are likely planets (and tide-locked).
• Worlds of size 7+ are probably planets
• Worlds in systems without gas giants are probably planets (though, as has been noted, satellites orbiting terrestrial worlds are not impossible under T5).
• Given all these tendencies, and assuming T5's rate of satellite creation is representative (see below), most size 1-2 worlds are probably satellites.

Put it all together, and my quick and dirty method for determining satellites in existing sector data is "Mainworlds in orbit 0 or 1, or of size 7+, are always planets, otherwise the mainworld is a satellite on 7- of 1D + size."

It seems to me that it would be a rare thing for a mainworld to orbit a gas giant, where "rare" means something like p<0.05. One in twelve (2D<=3)? One in eighteen (2D = 3)? One in thirty-six (2D = 2)?

Under T5, it's about one in twelve. Unusual, but not super rare.

 

[sudnadja]

it is pretty easy to tell that different system generation systems were used on different sectors:



This is a map with the point size scaled per number of gas giants in the system (noted in the PBG field). Blue points have no gas giants at all.

 

[inexorabletash]

Foreven should be a hole of unknown data, as expected.

Looks like Beyond (in review) has GasGiants quantized to 0 or 1 to reflect the original data. Belts are all 0. That data needs to be generated. Not sure if the frequency of GG vs no GG is normal - still looks low, but hard to tell.

Keep this analysis coming!

 

[inexorabletash]

Looks like Beyond (in review) has GasGiants quantized to 0 or 1 to reflect the original data. Belts are all 0. That data needs to be generated. Not sure if the frequency of GG vs no GG is normal - still looks low, but hard to tell.

I regenerated BG (and updated W) for Beyo. Data live.

Belts were generated using T5 (1D-3) if 0 (there were a few non-zero Bs, presumably based on write-ups)

Gas Giants were generated using T5 (2D/2-2) if 1, and clamped to a minimum of 1. This retains the original state of the Paranoia Press booklet. The frequency of systems with GGs *is* very low in the original. We can look at this inconsistency as a flaw in the data, an astrophysical anomaly, or a plot point.