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Law enforcers in the Imperium

What are the responsibilities of:

The Navy

IISS

Ministry of Justice field agents

In the third empire each world enforces its own laws, there are however certain laws, high justice, that everyone need to follow. Who enforces these laws? In most cases high justice crimes are also crimes in accordance with local law, and hence not a problem. If this is not the case could the perpetrator be extradited?

What about pirates, are they subjected to military law or would an antipirate task force be followed by an ministry of justice field agent?

What about terrorists? According to GT Ground forces the IISS S3 fought against solomani terrorists, is IISS responible for combatting terrorists?

How do all you handle law enforcement?
 
That is why I was surprised to read that they fought terrorists.

I always imagined thatS3 was responsible for rescuing Scouts trapped or taken captive on hostile planets and maybe responible for protecting the xboats. I didn't think that they acted as a police for in the empire.
 
Originally posted by Daniel:
That is why I was surprised to read that they fought terrorists.

I always imagined thatS3 was responsible for rescuing Scouts trapped or taken captive on hostile planets and maybe responible for protecting the xboats. I didn't think that they acted as a police for in the empire.
Let's not assume that just becuase S3 has dealt with terrorists, that's S3's only mission; nor that only S3 deals with terrorists. First In describes an S3 mission against animal smugglers violating an IISS interdiction order, for example, so their coverage clearly extends beyond terrorism. For all we know, the Sollies were trying to attack IISS communications networks and that's how S3 came into it.

However, I don't think the lines of responsibility need to be drawn so tightly. I would say that an Imperial noble of sufficient authority could task any Imperial armed force to conduct any mission within its capabilities. Given the travel times in Traveller, you can't wait for an Imperial Marine commando team from two systems over to take down a bunch of terrorists. If you have an IISS S3 team on hand, the Imperial noble in charge (perhaps the local baron) would be perfectly entitled to use them.

The concept of law enforcement is a point of much contention among Traveller developers, it seems. Some prefer lots of imperial organizations with rather well-defined divisions of authority. Others prefer a more ad hoc system, where there are many different types of organizations with overlapping authority, and often with large gaps in responsibility. I'm inclined toward the latter. If you accept the notion of the Imperium as a government of men, not laws, then it's the nobility that decides who is responsible for what, and their decisions will necessarily vary from place to place and time to time.

On a tangent, Digest Group created an IISS security detachment responsible for personal security of the Emperor, akin to a US Secret Service protective detail. The origin of this group was described more as an historical accident than deliberate divison of responsibilities.
 
If you are there and have a badge, does it really matter what the shape of the badge is before you let the bad guys try breathing vacuum? The only thing you can be sure of is, the IISS and the MOJ will be somewhere else when the Imp Navy comes out to play.
toast.gif

The whole idea/excuse for nobility is to protect those under your care with what you have as best you can. The distances are too vast and communication too slow to be worried about who owns what crime.

-----------------------------
In the end, Murphy will rule
 
Eversince SCOUTS. which gave ISS bureacrats rankings reminiscent of US Civil Service paygrades I've always Kinda thought of Scouts as having a role like the CIA/FBI/Secret Service.

The comparison is made stronger by the fact that the real world US Secret Service. doesn't just protect their President, but (as defined in one book I read) defends the Honour of their nation. That's why they are assigned to the Dept. of the Treasury. That's why their law enforcment brief is Counterfeiting and Fraud. They are responsible for making sure Uncle Sam's cheques don't bounce.

I see IISS being more information than currency orientated but their law enforcement bodies probably resemble the US dept. of the Treasury's more than they so say.. Justice or Transport... (well then again Transport runs the Coast Guard and that's a very scoutly kind of paramilitary. Then again the Imperial Navy tends to handle that role...hmmm..)

I like the idea of a American model of law enforcment though, with many Competing agencies serving many rival ministries. I think you SHOULD find Military Intelligence Officers trying to bust criminals or Civilian Hostage Rescue Teams fighting battles. All at the direction of whatever noble is on hand, using what she ..has... on hand to deal with the Imperium's enemies.

It fits the Imperium much better than an overarching Police force such as the KGB or the RCMP would.

IMO anyway.
 
Being in law enforcment I want to run a law enforcment type campaign in traveller.

What all of you have said does not differ from my idea of how it works in the traveller universe (well, I had forgotten about all the meddling nobles ;) ).

I agree with the previous poster that the IISS is a kind of US secret service. However in my campaign I need an organization for my players, and that oganization must be MOJ, the only other possibilty would be IRIS.

I have thought of MOJ as an imperial version of FBI, complete with field offices on the different world. MOJ would only deal with high justice crimes, and only if the local authorities would not. The MOJ would also be responible for crimes involving multiple worlds.

MOJ IMTV would also advise local law enforcment. There would be MOJ academies (like the FBI academy) where local law enforcment people would learm the latest techniques. Each subsector (or sector) would have a "Flying team", experts who would assist a local effort. The flying team would be composed of profilers, forensic experts, maybe even doctors. Complete with its own transportation and with its own mobile lab.

MOJ would also be responsible for handling terrorist cases within the Imperium, with something like the FBI Critical incident response team.

The tactical personel would also assist in antipirate operations, building a case against the pirates etc.

What do you all think? Does it retain the traveller feel. This would still leave inter agancy rivalries in place, and it does leave room for military interventions within the imperium.
 
Originally posted by Daniel:
Being in law enforcment I want to run a law enforcment type campaign in traveller.

What all of you have said does not differ from my idea of how it works in the traveller universe (well, I had forgotten about all the meddling nobles ;) ).

I agree with the previous poster that the IISS is a kind of US secret service. However in my campaign I need an organization for my players, and that oganization must be MOJ, the only other possibilty would be IRIS.

I think you'd have a lot of other options, including simply inventing some new organization.

IRIS is pretty well out of fashion. It was never supposed to eb anything but a variant and they writers went to some effort to demolish it in later books.

I have thought of MOJ as an imperial version of FBI, complete with field offices on the different world.

[snip]

What do you all think? Does it retain the traveller feel. This would still leave inter agancy rivalries in place, and it does leave room for military interventions within the imperium.
I hate to syay that I dn't like it much at all. The notion of a single MOJ with imperium-wide authority and resources seems overly intrusive to me. I'd look much more to the British imperial model, where the only really wide-ranging "police" force would be the Royal Navy.

I would tend to treat issues like piracy and terrorism as primarily the responsibility of the Imperial armed forces (which includses the IISS, much the same way as the US Coast Guard). You don't "build a case" against pirates IMTU. IMTU, the IN's intelligence arm tracks them down, and then a task force moves in and cleans them out. Any survivors woudl be tried by court martial or perhaps in a court convened by the local noble and acting under common law primnciples. There is very little written law, just lots of precedent.

If a local noble felt the need for a special group of inestigators to deal with other crimes, he'd either get some people seconded from the military, or he'd recruit his own team, possibly as an arm of his huscarles (house troops). This is a good job for PCs with the appropriate backgrounds.
 
Indeed. The previous poster seems to have a grip on things.

The Imperial Navy 'polices' The Imperium's actual jurisdiction, (the Space between worlds, Intersteller Economy, Sophont's rights)

Such 'Policing' is more along the lines of 'police action' than 'law enforcement but...

The IISS would probably be more involved with espionage. larger vessels/task forces might be more 'coast guard' like. Enforcing IISS's personal Red Zones. Guarding the X-boat routes, dealing with 'Hazard's to astrogation.' I suspect small scout teams or individual agents would do whatever the local noble wanted of them.

For most 'Civil Policing' Local polities seem to use whatever is handy. (check out the descriptions of security and enforcement types for the five or six 'linkworlds' posted on the Host site for an example of how varied such forces could be.)

I don't see The MOJ working the way Daniel describes. That -To me- DOES sound rather like the RCMP, which in my country does everything from Local bylaw enforcement (at least in some towns) to Provincial policing Contracts (The Ontario Provincial Police and the Surete de Quebec are the only expections to this actually) They are also our only FEDs (unless you count the railway cops) . and until the late seventies and the formation of CSIS (Canadian Security and Intelligence Service) were our counter spy organisation. They have coastal patrol vessels and DID have a frigate sized ship or two. The also are partially supported by the Deparment of National Defence and as recently as WWII were mobilized as scouts, dispatch riders and military police. Oh and they are one of our national symbols and the copyright of their image is owned by (or at least leased to) Disney. (god I wish that was a joke.)

I don't think you want THIS sort of force for traveller. For one thing. It wouldn't work. You can't send experts from a central 'Scotland Yard' 'Ottawa' or 'Quantico' -- Travel time is to long.

on the other hand I have a little quote from one of my favourite Authors...

"Everybody knows about Executive Special Agents. There are all kinds of secret agents operating in the Federation -- Army and Navy Intelligence, Police of different sorts, Colonial Office agents, private detectives, Chartered Company agents. But there are fewer Executive Specials than there are inhabited planets in the Federation. They rank, ex offio, as Army generals and Space Navy admirals; they have the priviledge of the floor in Parliament, they take orders from nobody but the President of the Federation. But very few people have ever seen one, or talked to anybody who has."
-- H. Beam Piper 'Four Day Planet' page 193

I could see a party led by one MOJ officer with a badge and an Imperial Warrant making an interesting RP group.

Here's take from the same source on 'high crimes'

"...You murder your Grandmother, or rob a bank, or burn down an orphanage with the orphans all in bed upstairs, or something trivial like that and if you make an off-planet getaway, you're reasonably safe. Of course there's such a thing as extraditon, but who bothers? Distances are too great, and comunication is too slow, and the Federation depends on every planet to do its own policing.
But enslavement's something different. The Terran Federation is a government of and for -- if occasionally not by -- all sapient peoples of all races. The Federation Constitution guarantees equal rights for all. Making slaves of people, human or otherwise, is a direct blow at everything the Federation stands for. No wonder they kept hunting fifteen years for the man responsible for the Loki enslavements."
--Ibid. Page 196

I heartly reccomend Piper's novels (published by Ace Books I think) for a good take on what the Imperium -can- be like.
 
As an alternative for Tom and Danial and Garf,(valid all) I might suggest:

The MOJ is precisely that, a civil police force, simple because there are time when the Navy is either excessive or more importantly, politically volatile. There are a good many systems where the Navy or some other Imperial military arm might be resented, and military forces are never trained as police per se, ( having been both a civil as well as military police, I can assure you that the approach is vastly different) unless one is placing a system under martial law.

My solution was the Marshall. MOJ marshalls, or Starburst Rangers, are modelled after the terran Texas Rangers in more than one way. Not merely a sweeping Imperium wide jurisdiction, the local noble ( baron or what have you) can call upon them at need to perform a wide variety of duties as his extension of Imperial authority, especially for those times when local civil police might not be appropriate ( corruption comes to mind) or when the Nobility require the presencof Imperial authority but do not require or find a bout of gunboat diplomacy desireable.

These guys easily fit Danials bill more so than IISS S3, and are much more a civil police element.

Fugitive recovery ( which would require imperial mandate and jurisdiction) is no little thing, and only the toughest or most dangerous criminals would be in their sights, such as terrorists, murderers, those unsually intrepid crooks with the resources to travel interstellar distances are by definition gonna be badasses.

Smuggling, on a wider than subsector scale, starport security ( always an imperial interest) and being the Imperial Fist when a sector duke needs one, as any noble can call on them. They would provide the dispersed police force, with the authority to attend to such matters while not providing military intervention and providing a minimal political impact. ( think about it... which as a noble in a subsector strife with factionalism would you rather have to use to handle a volatile problem without stepping on fellow nobles toes or alarming reactionary populaces, a bunch of really good cops or a naval task force? And how do you justify using naval resources to the loacal admiral for chasing crooks and terrorists? remember, the Navy thinks and plans on a much broader scale)

just a thought

Bryan
 
It's good to see another fan of H Beam Piper. He could weave a great tale.

IMTU, The MOJ agents were responsible for the true nasties who threatened the way things worked. IT was left to marshalls and bounty hunters to track down pikers that burned down an orphanage, with the kids in bed upstairs. But when someone made a dent in trade, informatin flow or soverenty of planets, then the Justice Agents were called in. Anyone with a thunderball or other WMD (weapon of mass destruction), would expect a call by the local subsector MOJ man. In effect they would have a charter similar to the FBI. Their chain ended with the local Duke. ;)
The emprorer had his IISS to keep him safe, until that little problem kicking off MT. :eek:
IRIS was for the James Bond types. Security of the Imperium. equates to the CIA or MI5 :(
If pirates were the problem, then the friendly sector navy ws called in to exterminate vermin. They needed practice to keep them in shape for the perfidious Zhodani. :eek:
Simple terms for not so simple issues. :rolleyes:

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In the end, Murphy will rule
 
<<<All at the direction of whatever noble is on hand, using what she ..has... on hand to deal with the Imperium's enemies.>>>

Sounds like the definition of an Imperial Warrant.

Scout
 
The Sunburst Rangers
ALSO sound remarkably like the worlds first Civil Police force (as opposed to Gendarmarie) The US Marshall Service (charged then and still charged with retrieving escaped felons) Beat out Robert Peel's Boys by .. damn can't remember exactly how many years but They still were online before the Peelers or Bobbies (whatever you want to call them.

But yeah. I see MOJ types being and their methods being more reminiscant of the American West than anything modern.

A lone, man (or woman) on the scene. Maybe with a posse. In many cases, judge and jury. Or at least able to ignore a felons 'civil rights' while performing a kidnapping.
 
I personally like a wide range of interlapping agencies. It keeps things in the Classic Cold War model of Traveller. MoJ, IISS Intelligence, Imperial Navy Intelligence, & Imperial Army Intelligence would be the big players, plus The Sector Duke's privite troubleshooter (and the team of fearless adventures) are all looking after the same thing.
To top it off, nobody wants to cooperate or coordinate with each other.

"Gee Larsen, you know that General Berry will have my head if I let INI or IISSI beat him to the GrandDuke with this data." insert pause "Ok Whipsnade, these are the pictures, but where are the negatives."

:eek:
 
You know...
I think we are in ... general agreement... and argueing about the details.

I wouldn't mind hearing more about the 'Sunburst Rangers'

I'm prettty sure i saw a picture with that title in the T20 Art Gallery archive. Are the Rangers then OTU?
 
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