Jump fuel. More parsecs per .1Jn

[Rerednaw]

I have had several variations on this concept but the two most common were:
1. Higher TL = less fuel needed as the various drives operate at improved efficiency. Each TL above the minimum granted a 5% reduction. For example a TL15 Jump 1 drive (15-9) uses 30% less fuel per jump which was the maximum reduction.

2. Improved fuel. Beyond refined there is essentially a higher energy density version. At TL12 you get a flat 50% increase at TL15 the fuel is 100% or has twice the energy per ton. However this “supercharged” fuel is very expensive and usually reserved for military or special duty use. TL12 50% boost SC fuel costs 5x refined, TL15 100% boost SC fuel costs 5x with the 50% SC fuel from TL12 cost is cut in half to only 2.5x the price of refined fuel.

I tend to use the former more often. The second was for an extended deep survey into unknown space type campaign. Obviously the cost involved made it impractical for standard use (merchants) I did not use both options together.

 

[Spinward Scout]

You can change your Jump Fuel calculation from .1MJ to (1/TL)MJ. 1 divided by Tech Level of the Jump Drive(TL) times Ship Tonnage(M) times Jump in parsecs(J). Jump Tech prototypes start at TL-9, so...

At TL-9 your Jump Fuel calculation would be (0.111)MJ.
At TL-10 your Jump Fuel calculation would be (0.100)MJ. - The normal Jump Fuel calculation.
TL-11 would be (0.090)MJ.
TL-12 would be (0.083)MJ.
TL-13 would be (0.076)MJ.
TL-14 would be (0.071)MJ.
TL-15 would be (0.066)MJ. - One extra Jump-1 with a Scout/Courier that has 20 tons of Jump Fuel - assuming the Jump Drive tonnage doesn't increase as Tech Level increases.

It's still only 34% fuel reduction at TL-15, pretty close to your 'maximum reduction' (what book is that rule in?). Even when you get to TL-20, you're only at (0.050)MJ - or half the fuel needed at TL-10. Going up to TL-30, it's (0.033)MJ - one third the fuel of the TL-10 Jump Drive.

SS

 

[Rerednaw]

You can change your Jump Fuel calculation from .1MJ to (1/TL)MJ. 1 divided by Tech Level of the Jump Drive(TL) times Ship Tonnage(M) times Jump in parsecs(J). Jump Tech prototypes start at TL-9, so...

...
It's still only 34% fuel reduction at TL-15, pretty close to your 'maximum reduction' (what book is that rule in?)...
SS

I did try variants of that...but wanted to keep it simpler though not sure if it ended up being so.
My max reduction wasn't in any book, but was because eventually I figured at very high tech levels, there'd be 'wonder/magic-tech' power sources like Zero-point energy, Probability Sea, passive galactic gravitic fields, etc. that would be tapped directly and not require fuel. Or even Psi variants that use teleportation to travel. And at that point, 'conventional' sources would pretty much be abandoned.

Maybe a flat .01JN reduction for each TL above 9 then (with a max reduction of 90% at TL18?) But that makes TL15 very very efficient...but considering most 'new' player-ships are not TL15 and average stellar is around TL12 maybe it would be a good compromise.

 

[Condottiere]

The Mongoverse version allows this option if the jump drive is constructed above the base technological level required for that jump range.

 

[McPerth]

See that in MT, whree jump fuel needs were lower to begin with (being "just" (Jn+1) x 5% of the ship's volume) there was increased efficiency (so lower fuel needs) with TL, but begining at TL17...

This said, I must warn (as I did in other threads about similar issues) that any jump fuel reduction that allows for practical 2 consecutive J4+ is, IMHO, fully changing the setting.

One of the main issues in any Science Fiction setting strategic thought is how deep you can go into enemy territory before having to stop, be it to refuel (as Traveller), to discharge your coils (as 2300AD) or whatever it can be, as this defines how fluid the "front lines" wil lbe in a war.

In Traveller, you usually must stop after any jump (at least for higher jumps) to refuel, so giving the defender some time to react. In 2300, your fleet usully needs long stops to discharge the coils after each system move, again giving the defender some time to react.

If you can do two such high jumps (3 if using drop tanks) without even appearing at a system, things change a lot. To give some examples of the effects it would have in OTU:

• Islands cluster is no longer isolated when you can have practical ships with independent J8 (by making 2J4 without refuelling) capacity.
• By using drop tanks, and so making 3J4 in a row, Zhodani leaving their base in Regina without having stopped at any system, so taking the enemy fully by surprise. Imperial ships leaving Jewell could appear for first time in a system past chornor subsector...
• The dispersion of the Louzy SDB fleet in FFW would have had quite less effect that the one described in SMC i nthe siege of Efate.

Another effect of the reduced fuel needs would be, on one hand, to reduce the advantage of the BRs over the BBs, but, OTOH, a Tender could carry more BRs...

In resume, I guess the seting would be quite changed if fuel needs are reduced (in MT they tried to compensate by making Power Plants absurdly inefficient in fuel needs, but even then there were some changes if you use low power needs ships). See that I say setting to be changed, not broken, as it may lead to other interesting setting, just diferent to the ones CT gives.

Being YTU, of course, those changes may well be what you look for, but just beware those strategic side effects

 

[Rerednaw]

See that in MT,...

This said, I must warn (as I did in other threads about similar issues) that any jump fuel reduction that allows for practical 2 consecutive J4+ is, IMHO, fully changing the setting.

One of the main issues in any Science Fiction setting strategic thought is how deep you can go into enemy territory before having to stop, be it to refuel (as Traveller), to discharge your coils (as 2300AD) or whatever it can be, as this defines how fluid the "front lines" wil lbe in a war.
...
Being YTU, of course, those changes may well be what you look for, but just beware those strategic side effects

I agree with you 100% which is why my default lets you get just a bit further (30% at max TL), but doesn't allow for effective double Jump ranges. It's great for merchants trying to get more cargo space and so forth. And I usually don't use Imperium, Zhodani, etc...I generally stick with the LBB1-3 setting, which is sandbox / ala whatever we get out of the Microscope session.

It does alter some of the 3rd Imperium setting stellar geography significantly, i.e. the J5 passage route is now more of a J4 route, and allows for more isolated worlds to suddenly be in reach...but it's a big mess if we are talking 6th (? whichever I lost count) Frontier War where everyone's naval fleets may suddenly have effectively Jump 12 at TL15 before refueling. It gets messy fast...

 

[McPerth]

I agree with you 100% which is why my default lets you get just a bit further (30% at max TL), but doesn't allow for effective double Jump ranges. It's great for merchants trying to get more cargo space and so forth. And I usually don't use Imperium, Zhodani, etc...I generally stick with the LBB1-3 setting, which is sandbox / ala whatever we get out of the Microscope session.

It does alter some of the 3rd Imperium setting stellar geography significantly, i.e. the J5 passage route is now more of a J4 route, and allows for more isolated worlds to suddenly be in reach...but it's a big mess if we are talking 6th (? whichever I lost count) Frontier War where everyone's naval fleets may suddenly have effectively Jump 12 at TL15 before refueling. It gets messy fast...

Well, 30% reduction means that fuel needs for J4 are just 28% of ship's volumen at TL15. So, 2J4 fuel means 56% of the volumen for fuel, and so with drop tanks you may make the 3J4 i na row I told about. And as in FFW the IN has already TL15, they could doo quite deep raids into Zhodani territory...

But of course, that's in OTU, and YTU may be different, though this reduction still will make rifts less of a problema, and the j6 courriers quite more common. Even J6 cruisers will be really practical (as now they only need 42% of their volume for jump fuel, so making them more or less the equivalent to J4 ones with standard rules). With standard rules, while they are doable, with 60% of their volume dedicfated to jump fuel they must be quite light in combat power

Again, I don't say this to be good or bad, just different, and may lead to equally interesting settings, where there are less chokepoints to defend, and the defender must spread his forces more evenly. This will, I guess, lead to an advantage to offensive, and lead to more mobile wars, instead of the static ones that are likely to result in standard rules.

 

[Rerednaw]

Well, 30% reduction means that fuel needs for J4 are just 28% of ship's volumen at TL15. So, 2J4 fuel means 56% of the volumen for fuel, and so with drop tanks you may make the 3J4 i na row I told about. And as in FFW the IN has already TL15, they could doo quite deep raids into Zhodani territory...

But of course, that's in OTU, and YTU may be different, though this reduction still will make rifts less of a problema, and the j6 courriers quite more common. Even J6 cruisers will be ...rules.

Yep I run with TL 12 being the cap, classic (no Imperium setting.) If I ran the EU beyond 1-3 then yah I'd have to take a more careful look.

Though none of my game ever had players commanding fleets...it was usually Firefly style, a few folks making their way on a small rickety ship. Empire / fleet action level stuff was always something that was beyond their ken or influence.

 

[Brandon C]

I just cut jump fuel requirements in half at all TLs. For commercial ships, this gave more cargo space, formilitary ship is made hit and run raids (jump in, attack, jump out) more effective.

 

[Timerover51]

I just cut jump fuel requirements in half at all TLs. For commercial ships, this gave more cargo space, formilitary ship is made hit and run raids (jump in, attack, jump out) more effective.

That is probably the safest approach it you are going to play with Jump fuel requirements.

 

[Magnus von Thornwood]

T5 TL Stage Effects.

Actually Traveller5 has a mechanic called Tech Level Stage Effects that do exactly this. I forget the actual numbers but it has a Standard TL with Efficiency being adjusted from that Standard both up or down.

Don't have my docs handy but Spinward Scout's numbers don't seem that far off but I'm going on memory and getting up there in years so...

 

[Spinward Scout]

I think I'm making it a New Year's resolution to get T5 this year.

 

[Magnus von Thornwood]

Sweet.

I think I'm making it a New Year's resolution to get T5 this year.

I seem to recall T5.1 is coming out, in the Classic 3 Book set in hard cover, about 256 each Book, it's due around April. Oh and in a cool slip case, forgot about that.

 

[Panzerkraken]

Ultimate is TL+4 Cost x3 Eff 130% Fuel 0.7 Tons x/4

 

[Spinward Scout]

I seem to recall T5.1 is coming out, in the Classic 3 Book set in hard cover, about 256 each Book, it's due around April. Oh and in a cool slip case, forgot about that.

I'm... gonna wait until April.

 

[mike wightman]

I want to know more.

How well playtested is it?

Will there be a kickstarter for it (you can have my money now)?

 

[whartung]

I just cut jump fuel requirements in half at all TLs. For commercial ships, this gave more cargo space, formilitary ship is made hit and run raids (jump in, attack, jump out) more effective.

That is probably the safest approach it you are going to play with Jump fuel requirements.

The thing is that the fuel requirements are almost as impactful as jump itself is to the overall mechanics of the universe.

Jump is very expensive, both in time and fuel, and those aspects have grand affects, both economically and militarily.

Reducing jump fuel requirements on merchants is basically just giving them money. Adjusting jump fuel requirements on the military has grand affects on campaign pace.

 

[Brandon C]

Reducing jump fuel requirements on merchants is basically just giving them money. Adjusting jump fuel requirements on the military has grand affects on campaign pace.

IIRC from my old TML days, CT merchants, unless resorting to illegal operations, will lose money under the current rules. This may be fine as adventure incentive for PCs, but it affects all NPC merchants as well.

Except for one campaign, I run pocket empire settings, so military operations will already look different.

 

[AnotherDilbert]

Reducing jump fuel requirements on merchants is basically just giving them money. Adjusting jump fuel requirements on the military has grand affects on campaign pace.

IIRC from my old TML days, CT merchants, unless resorting to illegal operations, will lose money under the current rules. This may be fine as adventure incentive for PCs, but it affects all NPC merchants as well.

Whartung is correct. You just have to choose your routes reasonably.

Even the lowly Free Trader breaks even if you can fill it to 75% of capacity:

ML-2211111-000000-00000-0       MCr 37,1         200 Dton
bearing                                            Crew=4
batteries                                            TL=9
            Pass=6 Low=20 Cargo=82 Fuel=30 EP=2 Agility=1
                                                                 
                                                                 
Estimated Economy of Ship     Standard                                     
       Ship price     Down Payment         Mortgage       Avg Filled
        MCr 37,08        kCr 7 416          kCr 155              75%
                                                                 
Expenses per jump                       Revenue                  
Bank                 Cr 74 160          High            Cr 45 000
Fuel                 Cr 15 000          Middle          Cr      0
Life Support         Cr 19 000          Low             Cr 15 000
Salaries             Cr  7 200          Cargo           Cr 60 000
Maintenance          Cr  1 483                                   
Berthing             Cr    400                                   
                                                                 
Summa               kCr    117                         kCr    120
                                                                 
     Income potential per jump     kCr 3                    
  Yearly yield on down payment      0,9%