Importance Extension

[nerdygerdy]

I couldn't figure this out from reading the book and didn't see it addressed in the current errata. If it's covered within an errata discussion and just hasn't made it into/is slated for an errata entry, I'd appreciate being directed there, thanks.

1) from the bottom of page 435, how does one determine the difference between a Busy Empire versus a Rural Empire for increasing or decreasing Importance to calculate expected ship traffic? Is this defined anywhere?

2) If Importance=2 and H=1,000 (world is on a trade route), then according to the formula, 10^2/1,000=100/1,000=.1 ships per week=1 x 1,000-ton cargo hold ship every 10 weeks.

3) If Importance=2 and H=100 (world is not on a trade route), then according to the formula, 10^2/100=100/100=1 x 100-ton cargo hold ship per week.

Does that just mean that Importance speaks to the frequency of ship visits, and if so, I would think being on a trade route means more frequent ship visits.

Thanks!

 

[thalassogen]

1) it's your decision based on your likings.

 

[nerdygerdy]

oof

I guess I'm asking if "Busy Empire" or "Rural Empire" was intended to mean the system by itself or the cluster of worlds "near" the system that may belong to a local "trading empire". I don't think it means "the entire Imperium".

But I'm glad you responded, I was trying to figure out how to use your (very cool) extension calculator for Jackoyo's (B000510-B) Econ extension. I might have figured it out, but let me check...

 

[robject]

I guess I'm asking if "Busy Empire" or "Rural Empire" was intended to mean the system by itself or the cluster of worlds "near" the system that may belong to a local "trading empire". I don't think it means "the entire Imperium".

I had assumed it was applied in general across a particular setting; i.e. an ATU might be busier or quieter. I think this because there are two general types of Traveller players: those who like a "busy" Imperium, and those who like a "quiet" one. It's the "nature" of interstellar traffic: it's either "easy" or "not easy".

If interstellar travel and trade is easy, then it should be a busy setting. After all, lots of players own starships. Maybe everyone owns one. Certainly if some worlds are "sinks" and others are "sources", you're going to get interstellar freighters to satisfy demand.

On the other hand, if it's not so easy, then you'd have a somewhat quieter one. Players may operate a starship, but maybe they don't own it, and maybe they're of a rare breed. From there we spin into the self-sufficiency of star systems, the nitty gritty of interstellar economics... and my eyes start to glaze over.


But, there's no reason the value can't be bumped up or down by region within a setting. For that matter, worlds can have a declared Importance "by fiat" if you need them to be at a certain level. Sylea might be Importance+10 by fiat.

 

[nerdygerdy]

thanks

Thanks. That helps me over that hump.

Here's another definition question:

"for most worlds" vs. "on Trade Routes"

does "for most worlds" mean NOT a trade route?

With that in mind, back to the H value for expected ship traffic. Plugging in an Importance of 2 into the formula yields that a world not on a trade route would get more ship traffic (1 per week) than an Imp=2 world on a trade route (.1 per week, or 1 per 10 weeks)

I would think a world on a trade route would get visited more often, regardless of whether it's a busy or rural empire.

Am I totally reading the formula wrong here?

 

[thalassogen]

But I'm glad you responded, I was trying to figure out how to use your (very cool) extension calculator for Jackoyo's (B000510-B) Econ extension. I might have figured it out, but let me check...

Based on Planetoid Belts and Gas Giants (and without changed Flux values), this should be:
B000510-B As Ni Va {+1} (844+0) [565B] B - G 510

TravellerMap lists:
B000510-B As Ni Va {+1} (845+1) [1616] B - G 510

"Reverse engineered", TravellerMap applied/rolled:

Resource Flux = 0
Infrastructure Mod = 5 (second value is ignored due to TC Ni)
Efficiency Flux = 1

Homogenity Flux = -4
Strangeness Flux = -4
Symbols Flux = -5

 

[nerdygerdy]

read my mind what I was after...

Where does the 8 come from for Resources? Is that just a random 2D result that both your app and travellermap arrived at by chance? Or when the book says "Resources=2D" that's actually a flux roll? In either case, totally flummoxed as to how you arrive at "8" for Resources.

Labor is easy, thank goodness.

For Infrastructure... I see your web app's two fields account for 1D or 2D (the Ni trade code makes that clear enough), so is travellermap's Infrastructure Mod=5 and your Mod=4 the result a random 1D roll?

In other words, Econ and Cultural will likely be different everytime you roll, yes?

 

[rancke]

I had assumed it was applied in general across a particular setting; i.e. an ATU might be busier or quieter. I think this because there are two general types of Traveller players: those who like a "busy" Imperium, and those who like a "quiet" one. It's the "nature" of interstellar traffic: it's either "easy" or "not easy".

Traveller travel is never easy. It takes years to cross a few hundred parsecs and crossing just one parsec is quite expensive. And in previous Traveller versions the rules provide no support whatsoever for anyone who'd like his game setting to have easier interstellar travel. If you tried, you were entirely on your own. As far as I gather the T5 rules are the same. Or am I wrong? There's a hop or a skip drive or whatever it's called, I know, but are the ramifications of using them outlined? The transport costs of hop drives and how they'd interact with jump drives?

(Mind you, much of the setting material seems to imply a much higher degree of interstellar traffic than the rules imply.)


Hans

 

[Draconian]

I mentioned in the errata that negative Importance values, on an exponential equation, give very very low ship traffic values, almost as if the planet hasn't had contact with Imperial trade for thousands of years...just official X-boats to deliver their official annual Sears Catalogs and such! They may decide to tweak the whole formula.

I also checked the Master Text Old file on the CD-ROM, and it didn't define "busy" vs. "rural" empires either. It didn't give a formula for frequency of trade ships at all.

 

[thalassogen]

Where does the 8 come from for Resources? Is that just a random 2D result that both your app and travellermap arrived at by chance? Or when the book says "Resources=2D" that's actually a flux roll? In either case, totally flummoxed as to how you arrive at "8" for Resources.

Resources are 2D by the book (and if TL >= 8) + number of plentoid belts + number of gas giants. In my web app I am assuming an average of 7 for 2D + 1 p.b. = 8;

I use a flux (-5 to +5) in the parameter fields farther to the bottom to adjust the average 7 to the range of 2D (2 to 12). This yields exactly the same probabilities, because Flux = 2D-7.

For Infrastructure... I see your web app's two fields account for 1D or 2D (the Ni trade code makes that clear enough), so is travellermap's Infrastructure Mod=5 and your Mod=4 the result a random 1D roll?

In other words, Econ and Cultural will likely be different everytime you roll, yes?

Here again I am using average results for the dice AS THE DEFAULT ASSUMPTION - subject to change by the user. 1D averages 3.5 round up to 4, 2D average 7. Therefore the first field holds the first die's average of 4 and the second the rest of the 2D average (7-4 = 3). Both fields may be changed and hold values between 1 and 6.

And yes, Ex and Cx will differ on "every" roll.

 

[nerdygerdy]

Thanks much. I had wondered about it being an average, but that cinches it.

Now that I know how to figure out all three extensions, what does one DO with them afterwards? Is it just as the rules say, they create "character" for a mainworld and the rest is left up to flesh-out by the ref? In other words, these don't plug into anything else down the line, right?

Thanks again -- great explanation.

 

[thalassogen]

At least Ex is used again later to calculate Resource Units (RU) - the currency in large scale ventures. But RU is not used in the Core Rules as far as I know. Maybe there will be a Pocket Empires/Dynasty expansion that builds upon that.

I guess, I will use Ix and Ex do determine trade routes and Ix and Cx to determine XBoat routes.

 

[Midgardsormr]

Importance is also used to determine capital worlds.

 

[Draconian]

Importance Extension and Population

I guess, I will use Ix and Ex do determine trade routes and Ix and Cx to determine XBoat routes.

I would think population is the overwhelming factor to whether a world is "important" or not, but doing an analysis of the factors that make up Importance extension ({Ix}), it's a weak correlation; too weak:

• Starport Type: Determined from a table with a 2D roll, no Dice Modifiers (DMs) given. Population doesn't influence this roll.
• Tech Level: is influenced by population, but every Tech Level A or above gives the same modifier, +1.
• "Per Ag Hi In Ri": Okay, ONE of these is for High Population (Hi). In the errata it is awarded for ANY of these population codes: 9ABCDEF. But it's just a +1 for any of them. And if you have a world with Hi, then Ri (Rich) becomes impossible because they are mutually exclusive population ranges (Billion Beggars Squadron?) Ni (Non-Industrial) for small populations counts just as much as a Hi or Ri. This makes less sense since a pop F (if it is rolled after a 10 (A) result requires a new roll) represents a million times more population than a 9, the stuff of REAL science-fiction, a super dense population density. F is a market one million times larger than a 9, but both just +1?
• "If Naval AND Scout base": the chance of a Naval Base goes down with population but Scout base goes up, but it makes no difference overall once you're past pop-code 9.