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Imperial Orders of Knighthood: How Many are canon?

Meteoric Assault

Meteoric Assault

Marquis de Sharkbait
Admin Award
from CT Supplement 11:
Several dozen orders of knighthood exist within the
1.Order of the Emperor's Guard, established in 52 and originally limited to the Emperor's personal retainers but now of wide and diverse membership.

2.the Order of Starship and Crown, established in 17. ( would this be for the imperial Navy?)

3. Order of Hlyuea (established to honor loyal Aslan citizens),
4. Order of Gvadakoung (established to honor loyal Vargr citizens),
5. Honorable Order of the Arrow, (established to recognize interstellar explorers), IISS I assume.

Then there are the domain orders for Sol, Vland, Sylea, Gateway, Anteres, and Dened (defunct until till His Grace Archduke Norris is named).

Are there any other's I have missed?

Are there any thoughts by the members here as to how they are structures... Like the UK system of Honors or would it be similar to the Imperial Russian or German orders?

I would welcome not only any discussion, but... would Sector Dukes administer Sector Orders as well? Also what would be the Orders of Knighthood for the Imperial Army and or Marines?
 
Name/Established/Precedence/Number of members

Order of the starship and Crown/17/1*/200
Honorable Order of the Emperor's Guard/52/2*/2500
Order of the Arrow/62/3*/2000?
Ancient and Preeminent Order of Sylea/before 0/4/less than 2500?**
Ancient Order of Vland/before 0/5/?
Order of Gateway/?/6/'among the smallest of the major orders'
Order of Ilelish/?/7/?
Royal Order of Antares/?/8/?
Order of Sol/?/9/?
Order of Gvadakoung/642/10&11/?***
Order of Hlyuea/642/10&11/?***

* Internal precedence among the three top orders has not been stated explicitly; I've gone with the dates of establishment to rank them​

** Most knighthoods bestowed by the Emperor are said to be in the Order of the Emperor's Guard. But does this include knighthoods handed out in his capacity a Archduke of Sylea or just to the ones he hands out as emperor?​

*** These knighthoods are handed out by the Emperor too, right? ​

All in all, I personally believe that the figure of 2500 for the Order of the Emperor's Guard was too low at the time of publication and that this is even more so the case under T5, where the Emperor presumably is the one handing out all those knighthoods to the high knights.


Hans
 
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whulorigan said:
See the "Orders" Tab on this document:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1mRGZE7RZZJrchoaudEX9-wXeZTTJves6ohYiigK2STU/edit?usp=sharing

The Orders listed there are drawn from across various rulesets, and also include some Orders that have appeared exclusively in Marc's current T5 Patent Cards.
Click to expand...

That is pretty comprehensive, and it does answer my question for the most part.
However it does open up the following questions... I have several plastic cards from FFE are they valid? Also does my long standing membership in the Moot make me eligible for the "official list"? I did see my two self named titles ( originally I had asked MM to move me to Caladblog... never heard back, (shrug).
 
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whulorigan said:
See the "Orders" Tab on this document:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1mRGZE7RZZJrchoaudEX9-wXeZTTJves6ohYiigK2STU/edit?usp=sharing

The Orders listed there are drawn from across various rulesets, and also include some Orders that have appeared exclusively in Marc's current T5 Patent Cards.
Click to expand...
The link doesn't work for me. Perhaps I'm doing something wrong, but all I get are the top dozen lines; the rest is blank. And I can't seem to find any other files to load.

Could you list the ones I didn't list in my post above?


Hans
 
Meteoric Assault said:
f 2.the Order of Starship and Crown, established in 17. ( would this be for the imperial Navy?)
Click to expand...

The Order of the Starship and Crown only have about 200 members. That's not even enough to allow more than half the high dukes to be members. Any IN officer who wasn't a duke would be fairly unlikely to become a member. So, no, I don't think it's for the Imperial Navy.


I would welcome not only any discussion, but... would Sector Dukes administer Sector Orders as well? Also what would be the Orders of Knighthood for the Imperial Army and or Marines?
Click to expand...
My opinion is that there must be several orders missing from the list. While there is nothing inherently implausible about an order limited to 200 members, it shouldn't be one of only three orders, the biggest of which has 2500 members. It should be one of at least half a dozen orders, possibly more, some of which should have memberships in the high tens or low hundreds of thousands. After all, the Imperial Navy alone quite possibly has some 30-40,000 general officers (commodores and up).

Having separate orders for the Imperial Navy, Army, Marines, and Scouts is not, IMO, necessary -- the British Empire never did. The various British orders mostly differs by the prestige they confer (I think there's one reserved for royalty and heads of state).


Hans
 
Hans,

I agree the the RL example is the Order of the Bath. Granted the british system of honors isn't as complex as the Imperial German systems of orders and honors.
The Order of the Crown (Kronenorden) for example was rather straightforward but had several layers... where as the Order of the Red eagle (Rote Adlerordern)
was complex with all the Swords, bows and oak leaves, swords on rings.

Appreciate you taking the time Hans. Have a good evening.

BVW
 
rancke said:
The link doesn't work for me. Perhaps I'm doing something wrong, but all I get are the top dozen lines; the rest is blank. And I can't seem to find any other files to load.

Could you list the ones I didn't list in my post above?
Click to expand...


The original link is to a Google Docs Excel Workbook.
I turned the complete Orders page/tab from the document into a PDF (attached below).

rancke said:
My opinion is that there must be several orders missing from the list. While there is nothing inherently implausible about an order limited to 200 members, it shouldn't be one of only three orders, the biggest of which has 2500 members. It should be one of at least half a dozen orders, possibly more, some of which should have memberships in the high tens or low hundreds of thousands. After all, the Imperial Navy alone quite possibly has some 30-40,000 general officers (commodores and up).
Click to expand...

As I recall, CT:Library Data mentioned that there were several dozen Orders of Knighthood. That to me implies around 40 (give or take). So there is plenty of leeway for unmentioned orders.
 

Attachments

whulorigan said:
As I recall, CT:Library Data mentioned that there were several dozen Orders of Knighthood. That to me implies around 40 (give or take). So there is plenty of leeway for unmentioned orders.
Click to expand...
Yes, but there's still a problem. The Order of the Emperor's Guard is said to be the most common of the Imperial orders and to have a membership of around 2500. That is IMO far too small a membership for the most common order of an Imperium with 15 trillion inhabitants. It's fine for the second or third most prestigious order of knighthood, but 2500 slots is not even enough to allow all high nobles in. It's one person in every 6 billion...

Most common ... 2500 members. Pick one. (Just my opinion).

Personally I would give the order 25,000 members and rank it relatively low (Certainly below the domain orders). And I wouldn't object if some person in authority put the membership at 250,000.

There could be a similar problem with the Order of the Arrow. There should be more than a couple of thousand scientists in fields related to exploration that deserve an accolade. And would scientists really rate the second or third most prestigious order?

Though perhaps the OotA is reserved for scientists of high social level?


Hans
 
Proposed imagery for the Most Noble and Distinguished Order of the Domain of Deneb

picture.php
 
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Order of the Spinward Marches

Made these the other night. Let me know what you think

Civil Division:
[remove bad link]

Military Division
[remove bad link]
 
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I'd modify the swords on the Military Division. They are lost behind the Unicorns/Steeds

Either:
-Change the hilt style
-Have the hilts at the top
-Change the location from behind other elements to maybe on the suspension ring.
 
rancke said:
The Order of the Starship and Crown only have about 200 members. That's not even enough to allow more than half the high dukes to be members. Any IN officer who wasn't a duke would be fairly unlikely to become a member. So, no, I don't think it's for the Imperial Navy.

Having separate orders for the Imperial Navy, Army, Marines, and Scouts is not, IMO, necessary -- the British Empire never did. The various British orders mostly differs by the prestige they confer (I think there's one reserved for royalty and heads of state).
Hans
Click to expand...

Is it actually limited to 200? If so it must be similar to the Garter where you are waiting for someone to die before a new appointment to be made and end up with an order full of octogenarians...

When I asked Marc for it as my kickstarter reward, I assumed it was IN...

Regards

David
 
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