Imperial minor humans

[rancke]

I have a set of tables to determine the ethnicity of a random Imperial citizen (or rather, the ethnicity of his name). For example, I might roll up that an NPC's personal name is Hungarian and his family nane is Vilani. Further rolls establish that his name is Ferenc Aadkemmur.

One possible result is 'Minor Human Race', and now I'm trying to work out a subtable to determine which MHR.

So what minor human races are found inside the Imperium and in what proportions?

Also, does anyone have tables for generating words/names from the dominant language of any minor human races?


Hans

 

[aramis]

There are suposedly over 40 MHR's...

But only handful are defined.

Moreover, many non-MHR human cultures have distinct naming.

And of the defined races, many don't have distinct monocultures.

 

[rancke]

There are suposedly over 40 MHR's...

45 still extant by the Classic Era known to Imperial scientists, but not all of them are in the Imperium. If the proportion of MHRs inside and outside the Imperium is similar to the proportion of minor non-human races it should be around 11 inside the Imperium, give or take.

But only handful are defined.

True. I'm asking about those that are.

Moreover, many non-MHR human cultures have distinct naming.

That would be another table entry, 'Non-human Races'. That one is going to be an even bigger problem, but sufficient unto the day.

And of the defined races, many don't have distinct monocultures.

True. I may look into creating a set of generic alien language tables some day.


Hans

 

[aramis]

4

That would be another table entry, 'Non-human Races'. That one is going to be an even bigger problem, but sufficient unto the day.

Reread what I wrote carefully, Hans
non-MHR humans... humans groups that don't constitute minor races. Groups like the Ardenese and pre-imperial settlers in the Marches... like the Sword Worlders. There are dozens more. Like the Psaydians. Or the Mandanin from the JG sectors.

We also can infer at least a dozen Terran Cultures made enclaves... just from the names in the Solomani Rim.

So such a table is a fool's errand... enjoyable, but in itself, useless... as it really should be a localized table. One per sector at a minimum; one per subsector better.

 

[rancke]

Reread what I wrote carefully, Hans
non-MHR humans... humans groups that don't constitute minor races. Groups like the Ardenese and pre-imperial settlers in the Marches... like the Sword Worlders. There are dozens more. Like the Psaydians. Or the Mandanin from the JG sectors.

Right, I misread you. I handle those differently, by a table for each individual world. For Ardenite names I'd use this table:

Ethnicity of Ardenite names

D100:
01-39 Anglic
40-64 Swordic
65-83 Solomani
84-93 Vilani
93-98 Minor non-human
99-00 Non-human

[NB! Based on my own history of Arden, not canon (there isn't any, AFAIK).]

Of course, I only have the time and interest to make up tables for a few worlds.

We also can infer at least a dozen Terran Cultures made enclaves... just from the names in the Solomani Rim.

Many more than that, I think.

So such a table is a fool's errand... enjoyable, but in itself, useless...

I find them quite useful, thank you very much.

...as it really should be a localized table. One per sector at a minimum; one per subsector better.

One per sector would be better, but also twenty times the work. One per subsector would be even better, but also three hundred times the work. So as a compromise between what I'd like to do and what I have the time and energy to do, I'm starting with a generic table for the entire Imperium. I may well work out a localized table for the Spinward Marches and one for the Duchy of Regina some day, but I'm unlikely to ever get around to making one for Deneb Sector or Lunion subsector.


Hans

 

[aramis]

Right, I misread you. I handle those differently, by a table for each individual world. For Ardenite names I'd use this table:

Ethnicity of Ardenite names

D100:
01-39 Anglic
40-64 Swordic
65-83 Solomani
84-93 Vilani
93-98 Minor non-human
99-00 Non-human

[NB! Based on my own history of Arden, not canon (there isn't any, AFAIK).]

No, you're STILL misreading me...

The Marches Imperial table should include Ardenese, since a small but probably highly spacer-oriented portion of the marches' Imperial pop are Ardenese.

But you should NEVER find a randomly generated Ardenese name much past, oh, say, Corridor.

The various discrete human cultures that we know of include the Dlani of Illellish, the Ardenese, the Sword Worlders (who almost qualify as a MHR, since they got there by STL ships), the Psaydians (who don't go starfaring as a general rule) & Jonkerer (MHR - non-starfaring), the Syleans (who are, essentially, the default, and may be a hybrid of 2 or more ethnic groups), the League of Antares (who are a cultural enclave under the Archduke of Antares' direct rule), any of the known Pocket Empires of the Long Night...

 

[Starviking]

the Sword Worlders (who almost qualify as a MHR, since they got there by STL ships)

Isn't that the Islanders? The Swordies used Jump-Capable ships, at least in G:Sword Worlds.

 

[Carlobrand]

And then there are the Imperial miner humans: the Dwarves of Disney World. That's in Solomani space somewhere, I think. Out here in the Marches, we only know of it from legend.

Add: an intriguing thought evolves from that little jest. The Ancients supposedly came to Earth 300,000 years ago. That was a hundred thousand years before anatomically modern humans - Homo Sapiens Sapiens. Our knowledge is yet imperfect - there may have been anatomically moderns a hundred thousand years earlier and we just haven't found the fossils yet. However, it is also possible the folk that got picked up were of a number of earlier Homo species - Neanderthalensis, Heidelbergensis, and ... perhaps an as-yet undiscovered species similar to Homo Floresiensis (a stone age pygmy human species found in Indonesia). Thus, our minor human races out there may well include something remarkably orcish or dwarvish in appearance.

 

[aramis]

Isn't that the Islanders? The Swordies used Jump-Capable ships, at least in G:Sword Worlds.

Yep, y'r right.

 

[rancke]

No, you're STILL misreading me...

The Marches Imperial table should include Ardenese, since a small but probably highly spacer-oriented portion of the marches' Imperial pop are Ardenese.

But you should NEVER find a randomly generated Ardenese name much past, oh, say, Corridor.

No, you're not getting it. I don't use these tables to decide where an Imperial expatriate is from, I use them to figure out what ethnicity his name is. There is no such thing as a recognizably Ardenite name. If I get a result of Anglic, Swordic, Solomani, Vilani, Minor non-human, or Non-human, the NPC may be from Arden. If it's someone encountered on Regina, there's a very small chance that he is from Arden (More likely from the small community of Ardenite expatriates living in Regina Startown). If it's someone encountered in Corridor, the likelihood is a lot smaller.

Chances are I'm not going to care where he is from. But I do find it useful to know what his name is.

The various discrete human cultures that we know of include the Dlani of Illellish, the Ardenese, the Sword Worlders (who almost qualify as a MHR, since they got there by STL ships), the Psaydians (who don't go starfaring as a general rule) & Jonkerer (MHR - non-starfaring), the Syleans (who are, essentially, the default, and may be a hybrid of 2 or more ethnic groups), the League of Antares (who are a cultural enclave under the Archduke of Antares' direct rule), any of the known Pocket Empires of the Long Night...

Are the people living on Dlan a minor human race? I don't recall ever hearing that. Do you mean Suerrat? Anyway, the Dlani may have a unique and recognizable pattern to their names that scream 'Dlani!', but until and unless someone documents said pattern, I can't very well take any notice of it. Even if someone did, they'd probably be below the resolution of the tables I'm making -- a few billion names in 15 trillion don't really register if you're using percentages or even tenths of percentages (permillages? ).

As far as I know there is no such thing as a recognizably Ardenite name. Even if there were, what I said about Dlani names goes for Ardenite names too.

Sword Worlders have mostly Solomani names. Mostly Scandinavian and Germanic with a leavening of every other culture on Earth and even a few Vilani names.

The Pysadians may or may not have their own language (the evidence is too scanty to say for sure), but the same argument as before applies.

AFAICR the article about the Jonkereen (who are not a minor human race but a variant human race) does not mention their name an language at all, but again, there are too few of them to have an impact on a generic table.

The Syleans probably do have recognizably Sylean names (though a lot of them adopted Solomani names IIRC). They're not the default, BTW. The map on p. 102 of Referee's Manual show Sylea as one of the cultural regions that "historically developed independent cultures and which have retained their cultural identity under the Imperium". Anyway, I certainly would expect to have 'Sylean' on my table, though I'd be a lot happier about it if I knew what sort of names that implied.

The League of Antares would have Vilani and Solomani and Vargr names, among others. But will there be any recognizably Antarean names? Not to my knowledge. Same goes for all the known pocket empires of the Long Night.


Hans

 

[rancke]

The Ancients supposedly came to Earth 300,000 years ago. That was a hundred thousand years before anatomically modern humans - Homo Sapiens Sapiens. Our knowledge is yet imperfect - there may have been anatomically moderns a hundred thousand years earlier and we just haven't found the fossils yet. However, it is also possible the folk that got picked up were of a number of earlier Homo species - Neanderthalensis, Heidelbergensis, and ... perhaps an as-yet undiscovered species similar to Homo Floresiensis (a stone age pygmy human species found in Indonesia). Thus, our minor human races out there may well include something remarkably orcish or dwarvish in appearance.

Regardless of what the scientists may discover about human evolution in the real world, in the Traveller Universe anatomically modern Homo sapiens had not evoled 300,000 years ago, but archaic Homo sapiens had. Imperial scientists refer to them as Homo sapiens antiquus. On Earth they evolved into Homo sapiens sapiens. On Vland they evolved into Homo sapiens vlandensis. On Zdant they evolved into Homo sapiens zhodotlas. Etc. etc.


Hans

 

[aramis]

As I said, Hans, a fool's errand: there's no data save what you create. Axiomatically, there HAS to be an Ardenite language and culture - it's just never been defined - because they have centuries of separation. At least as distinct as England vs the US.

The data you want doesn't exist in canon, and adding it would simply cut canon off from usability.

 

[Dragoner]

Imperial minor humans? Children of the March? Azhanti High Lightning? o:

 

[rancke]

As I said, Hans, a fool's errand: there's no data save what you create.

There is data. Just not very much. That's why I'm asking for help.

Axiomatically, there HAS to be an Ardenite language and culture - it's just never been defined - because they have centuries of separation. At least as distinct as England vs the US.

I said as far as we know there aren't any recognizably Ardenite names. Their names are all derived from imported cultures. Sword World names (which are actually mostly Solomani), Anglic, Solomani, Vilani, minor human race names, alien names. Even if there were recognizably Ardenite names, they'd be much too infrequent to make it onto a generic table. And in any case, having an Ardenite name would not necessarily indicate that someone was from Arden.

"So your name is Gloomish Thompson, eh? Gloomish, that's an Ardenite name, isn't it? Are you from Arden?"

"No, from Regina. Dad was in the Scouts with someone whose parents were from Arden. Best friends and all that. That's why Dad named me after Uncle Gloomish."​

The data you want doesn't exist in canon, and adding it would simply cut canon off from usability.

What? Making up new canon-compatible material "cuts canon off from useability"??? How do you figure that?

Be that as it may, I gather that you don't have anything helpful to contribute. That's disappointing, but don't feel bad about it. Hopefully there are others who can help. And if not, I'm no worse off than before.


Hans

 

[Peter Newman]

Axiomatically, there HAS to be an Ardenite language and culture - it's just never been defined - because they have centuries of separation. At least as distinct as England vs the US.

The data you want doesn't exist in canon, and adding it would simply cut canon off from usability.

There has to be an Ardenite culture. There has to be an Ardenite language. It does not have to be a unique language. It could be a dialect of Galanglic, with minor changes, much as 'American' is a dialect of English. The Ardenites are not pre-technological and they have a small population. I think they'd have had strong linguistic pressure to keep their original (Imperial colonists) Galanglic. it might well be less different than 'English' vs 'American' since those differences happened at a lower tech level, and in a less literate society. [1]

I'd say Ardenise is a dialect of Galanglic with some new words they came up with themselves, some Zhodani loan words, and a small smattering of Darrian and Sword Worlder loan words. Your average Solomani might not be able to understand it well, and a Imperial from the Core Sector might need to adjust to the accent, but I don't think that the average Imperial Marcher would have a problem understanding it.

[1] British parish marriage records indicate that at the start of the Victorian Era only a small majority of bridegrooms could even sign their own names, and most brides couldn't do so. Thus it is fair to characterize them as largely pre-literate in the
18th century and earlier.

 

[Peter Newman]

I certainly would expect to have 'Sylean' on my table, though I'd be a lot happier about it if I knew what sort of names that implied. Hans

Syleans are from a lower gravity planet and are implied to be haughty. They have to be elves, and use Elvish names. Of course Darrians are elves too, but they're wood elves. Syleans are high elves.

 

[mike wightman]

Emm - no.

Just - no.

 

[rancke]

Emm - no.

Just - no.

I'm afraid I can't find my mind-reading glasses right now.


Hans

 

[rancke]

I had hoped to get some new ideas from others before presenting my own, but it does not seem to be happening, so here goes:

The place to start is the AHL list. Nine of the AHLs have names that incorporates human races living withing the Imperium but outside the Solomani Sphere.

Acheron
Azhanti
Fiorin
Geonee
Suerrat
Ilurian
Luriani
Sylean
Vilani

Of these one is a major human race, five are minor human races, and one is a variant human race (I think I pointed out during the playtest of GT:Humaniti that using the Acheron name for a variant human race was contraindicated, but to no avail). It seems likely that the Fiorin and the Ilurian are likewise human races.

Several questions arise:

a) Are the Fiorin and/or the Ilurian also VHRs rather than MHRs? There's no evidence either way, but I strongly suggest that they be counted as MHRs.

b) Are there minor human races inside the Imperium that are not on the AHL list? GT:Humaniti lists one: the Irhadre. The writeup suggests a reason why they weren't used for an AHL: The Imperium is prejudiced against them (for reasons we need not go into here). The Cafadians are mentioned in Travellers' Digest #3. Very little is known about them. I know of at least two fanon writeups of other MHRs inside the Imperium, the Darmine and I forget the other one.

c) Are there any MHRs in the part of the Solomani Sphere that has been reoccupied by the Imperium? I don't know of any.

A second source of information, albeit extraordinarily vague, is the map of cultural regions of the Imperium on p. 102 of Referee's Manual:

Antares
Darmine
Ilelish
Lancia
Sylea
Vega
Vland

Antares, Ilelish, Sylea, Vega, and Vland we already know about. Darmine and Lancia have not (to my knowledge) been explained. Are they based on a minor race? If they are, are those races human? If they are, did the names come from the name of the races or were this perhaps the Fiorin and the Ilurian?


Hans

 

[aramis]

I had hoped to get some new ideas from others before presenting my own, but it does not seem to be happening, so here goes:

The place to start is the AHL list. Nine of the AHLs have names that incorporates human races living withing the Imperium but outside the Solomani Sphere.

Acheron
Azhanti
Fiorin
Geonee
Suerrat
Ilurian
Luriani
Sylean
Vilani

Of these one is a major human race, five are minor human races, and one is a variant human race (I think I pointed out during the playtest of GT:Humaniti that using the Acheron name for a variant human race was contraindicated, but to no avail). It seems likely that the Fiorin and the Ilurian are likewise human races.

Several questions arise:

a) Are the Fiorin and/or the Ilurian also VHRs rather than MHRs? There's no evidence either way, but I strongly suggest that they be counted as MHRs.

b) Are there minor human races inside the Imperium that are not on the AHL list? GT:Humaniti lists one: the Irhadre. The writeup suggests a reason why they weren't used for an AHL: The Imperium is prejudiced against them (for reasons we need not go into here). The Cafadians are mentioned in Travellers' Digest #3. Very little is known about them. I know of at least two fanon writeups of other MHRs inside the Imperium, the Darmine and I forget the other one.

c) Are there any MHRs in the part of the Solomani Sphere that has been reoccupied by the Imperium? I don't know of any.

A second source of information, albeit extraordinarily vague, is the map of cultural regions of the Imperium on p. 102 of Referee's Manual:

Antares
Darmine
Ilelish
Lancia
Sylea
Vega
Vland

Antares, Ilelish, Sylea, Vega, and Vland we already know about. Darmine and Lancia have not (to my knowledge) been explained. Are they based on a minor race? If they are, are those races human? If they are, did the names come from the name of the races or were this perhaps the Fiorin and the Ilurian?


Hans

The Darmine are humans. No language was written up for them, AFAIK.

We know that, within the Illellish sector, the Dlani faith is well known enough to shape the Archduke's mode of dress.

The Antarean Cultural Region is too small to make for a good sample, but the world names we do have are not memorably different.