If you were a senior naval officer

[Hal]

Hello Folks,
This thread is a discussion on "what if" kind of thing.

Suppose you have a Cruiser Squadron with three Heavy cruisers, a repair ship, a supply ship with reloads for missiles, and a tanker ship to aid in fuel resupply operations.

What would you want in the way of escort ships, and what design parameters would you want met with your ships.

Keep in mind, that the navy doesn't really want to have to pay through the nose for the best ships possible - it only wants to get the job done and still have money left over for research and development costs, training costs, resupply costs, etc. So what are the MINIMUMS you want to see knowing that you may not always be able to use the MAXIMUMS you could get.

Design constraints are for GURPS TRAVELLER ships regards to sensors, weapon systems, and so on.

All thoughts are welcome in this discussion.

Hal

 

[kaladorn]

Originally posted by Hal:
Suppose you have a Cruiser Squadron with three Heavy cruisers, a repair ship, a supply ship with reloads for missiles, and a tanker ship to aid in fuel resupply operations.

What is the purpose of my CruRon? Is it a penetration raiding Ron? Is it a screening Ron? Is it a stand-in for the LoB? Is it a Scout CruRon?

If I had a penetration raider (suggested by the organic resupply), what would I want?

I've got 3 poorly defended ships that are very vital to my operations. I'd want a CVE with some fighters for escort. Or several DDs with a heavy point defence armament suite.

For defence of the Cruisers, whose designs I'd focus on offensive firepower, jump range, and speed, I'd want escort designs that were fast, had good jump range, and packed armaments to stand off fighters, SDBs and small enemy vessels.

For scouting, I'd want a plethora of the smallest multi-jump capable starship I could find loaded with sensors.

So, for my 6 ship CruRon, I'd want at least 6 scouts in a ScoutRon, and a DestRon of about 8 DDs for screening. If I was going to put offensive armament on the DDs, I'd consider extra missile capability, so it could be linked with the cruisers for ambushes (using prelaunched dormant missiles and sensor drones) and so it could be fired in battery with other ships using a datalink to achieve Time-on-Target attacks. I'd also want my CVE if the budget would stretch with at least 24 fighters aboard, preferably 36.

 

[Hal]

Originally posted by kaladorn:
What is the purpose of my CruRon? Is it a penetration raiding Ron? Is it a screening Ron? Is it a stand-in for the LoB? Is it a Scout CruRon?


I've got 3 poorly defended ships that are very vital to my operations. I'd want a CVE with some fighters for escort. Or several DDs with a heavy point defence armament suite.

For defence of the Cruisers, whose designs I'd focus on offensive firepower, jump range, and speed, I'd want escort designs that were fast, had good jump range, and packed armaments to stand off fighters, SDBs and small enemy vessels.

For scouting, I'd want a plethora of the smallest multi-jump capable starship I could find loaded with sensors.

Ok - good answers thus far. As people join in this thread, I'd like to see open discussions about "why" things are as they are and requested as they are requested.

My questions are thus: why do you want ships with a high jump rating?

If the bulk of the time spent interacting with events is spent in real space, fighting is done in real space, and so on, what is the value of a High Jump rating for any scout ship as such? For example, you decide you want to place some ships as skirmishers and as trip wires. Presumably, these flankers are going to be nice quiet little things and generally operate in twos. One to arrive on station and one to come back immediately to indicate that they arrived on station. Ships who do not come back immediately are either mis-jump victims or they've run into trouble - either way, the event merits investigation. The problem is - how far out do you place your picket ships who have jumped away and are now in "independent command" mode? For instance, if you have a single star surrounded with say, 2 stars 1 parsec away, 4 stars 2 parsecs away, and 5 stars 3 parsecs away - do you intend to place skirmishers in all of those star systems, 11 in all? If so, then the fleet escort level needs how many escorts for your command - 3 capital class ships plus say, 33 escorts? Question is, can you do just as well with only a J2 scout as you can with a Jump 4 scout? What if instead, you used a J2 scout with tankage for two jump 2 jumps?


Next item on the list of wants:
Armaments. The escort class ships are going to be used as dedicated skirmishers and as hulls to be interposed between your core fleet and any potential enemies.

One benefit of having ships between you and your potential enemies is that a pearl harbor attack can't be launched as easily upon your ships. Any missiles screaming past your picket ships aimed at the core fleet will have advanced warning. Fighters can be used to flush out any ambushing craft and have the advantage of being able to spread out further - acting against as skirmishers.

What armaments are you looking to have with your escorts in this case? What are the expected enemy hull sizes you'd want your escorts to engage versus retreat back to the core fleet? For example, you mentioned a System Defense Boat. Would you want your ships capable of handling ships their size hulls and smaller? If so, what sized hulls do you want for your escorts?

Right now, it looks like you want:

Cruisers for core fleet along with support ships
Destroyers (how many?)
Escorts (how many?)
CVE (fighter compliment of say, 30 fighters)

Anything else?

 

[kaladorn]

Points:

A raiding fleet needs to have both higher local (M drive) and higher strategic manouverability (J Drive) than the defense forces, or it is going to be concentrated upon and killed. All fleet elements must be capable of this kind of mobility or they are of little use. This includes the scouts. Whereas most use may not be J5, if you can get J5 in, all the better. This kind of fleet should routinely engage nothing bigger than a DD or SDB, so if the cruisers seem underarmed to fit the big jump drives, so be it. You're going to be commerce raiding and ortillery striking and the like. You'd also like the capability to J-2 in and J-3 out....

Scouts, you wouldn't usually use outside of J-1 or J-2 distances, BUT they have to be able to move with the fleet. Ditto the various auxilliaries.

Weapons fit for escorts: Pulse lasers, sandcasters, defensive missiles. Standoff weapons that can also have PD functions.

Size of Escorts: To take on a 400 ton SDB, you probably need a 600 ton starship (at a guess). So, to take on several of them, you'd want your escorts in about the 1000 ton or 1500 ton range. So would be my guess.

How many escorts DDs? A minimum of two per Cruiser and at least a couple to stay and cover the colliers/etc. Ideally two per ship in the fleet (Cruiser and Auxilliary).

How many scouts? 6 minimum, ideally 12. EM Masking. Good sensors. Lots of Jump and MD. Armament minimal, armour nil. Good pilots, Excellent Sensor Operators.

CVE - 1 - 24 to 36 fighters plus a couple of cutters for marines or resupply or SAR.

 

[The Oz]

Originally posted by Hal:
Suppose you have a Cruiser Squadron with three Heavy cruisers, a repair ship, a supply ship with reloads for missiles, and a tanker ship to aid in fuel resupply operations.

What would you want in the way of escort ships, and what design parameters would you want met with your ships.

NOTE: I don't know GT, so I'm talking in High Guard terms.

All ships in the squadron must meet the jump capacity of the cruisers. Any military ships at TL12 and up usually have at least jump-3, and TL15 ships usually have jump-4. Some specialized ships have j-5 or even j-6 (fleet couriers).

I'm going to assume a Jump-3 capable squadron, which probably means this is not a raiding squadron like the one kaladorn is talking about. This is a main fleet squadron at TL12-14.

In some ways, squadrons and fleets are like ships written large: they need to do three things; move, see, and shoot. The main difference with a squadron or fleet is that often different ships get assigned different parts of these jobs.

Mobility: All ships have jump-3 drives. All scouts assigned to the squadron should have internal fuel capacity to jump-3 twice without refuelling. This allows quick in-and-out scouting missions into enemy systems. All ships (except the squadron fighter carrier) are at least partially streamlined to allow gas giant refuelling: the squadron tanker(s) and the cruisers should be fully streamlined to allow ocean refuelling. Everybody has fuel plants.

All warships (except the fighter carrier) capable of 6-G acceleration. Everyone else can make do with 1G or maybe 2G. This includes any scouts; they don't need high Gs and do need high fuel capacity and big computers for sensors.

Sensors: All warships and scouts should have the biggest computers and sensors available at their tech level. None of these things take up that much tonnage and the cost is marginal compared to increased capability.

Firepower: Escorts will concentrate on 50t missile bays, triple laser and sand turrets. Missile bays are offensive, lasers are fleet missile defense, and sand are point defense. Escorts will be in the 5000-10000 dton range and will usually have to be lightly armored. Escorts should mount a nuclear damper, but may not have a meson screen, depending on costs and tonnage.

The squadron fighter carrier should be a dispersed hull design to allow all fighters to launch/land in one combat turn. By dispensing with launch tubes (and armor) you can carry more fighters. At lower TLs fighters can be very useful in large enough numbers, and also make excellent expendable scouts to check out gas giants before refuelling, etc.

Scouts will be just like kaladorn said: as small as I can get them, with the necessary jump capability (J-3 twice w/o refuelling) and the best computers/sensors I can squeeze in. Low acceleration (2-G max) and not much firepower. They're intended to scout, not fight and I don't want them getting any heroic ideas.

Minimum squadron numbers:

3 Heavy Cruisers
6 Escorts
3 Support ships (tanker, ordnance supply, repair)

That's really the minimum: one escort for each ship in the squadron. With this setup, you'd have to use escorts as scouts if you needed to check out a system ahead of time.

Here's more like what I'd want to see, for a squadron operating by itself but in friendly space.

3 Heavy Cruisers
4 Scouts (operate in pairs)
12 Escorts (three 10,000t, nine 5000t)
1 Fighter Carrier with 5000 tons of fighters(10000t overall)
3 Support ships

More is always better, especially more scouts. The number of scouts depends on the number of systems the squadron will have to keep an eye on: take the number of systems watched, subtract one (for the system the squadron is in) and then multiply by two and you get the number of scouts needed.

 

[savage]

I agree that it depends on the roll. It also depends on budget. Are we talking Imperial Cruisers? Vargr? Aslan? There are varying sizes with different govts.

And finally, I wouldn't go with all scouts. Toss in a few close escorts if they may have to fight their way out... especially in border disputes that might have piracy, patrol cruisers....who knows what.

Savage

 

[TheDS]

Hey, I know, how about a BTL/BRL combo? Like a 20,000 ton ship carrying half a dozen 2000 ton ships... If you're going to have fighters, you may as well have HEAVY fighters.

A fleet this small looks to me like it's a Task Force. TFs are sent out to do a certain job and come back. This particular TF looks to me like a raider, something sent into the enemy's rear to stir up trouble, blast merchies, tag supply lines, do some scouting for enemy strength, stuff like that. Then it comes back and reports its findings. This does not look like a force that sends part of itself off, this IS part of a force that has been sent off.

Having an ammunition ship implies to me that the warships themselves don't need very large ammo bins, giving a little more room for other stuff. I'd still put a missile launcher on the ammo ship so it could fight if it needed to.

Having a fuel ship implies that you don't need to have spare jump fuel. No need for double-max-jumps. This allows us to put in stuff we might not otherwise carry. I'd get a second fuel ship, as an extra safety margin. Allows faster refuels of the TF, and allows you to risk only HALF your assets at a time on a refueling operation. SDBs love hiding in GGs, waiting for tankers.

All ships MUST have a high common jump factor. Well, excepting the fighters and BRLs. J4 is the generally accepted minimum standard. What YOU have depends on the enemy. If it's some one who has only J3 (or less) as standard, then J4 is fine. If they have J4 as standard, then you want J5. Beat them by at least 1, but give yourself at least 4 so you can cause trouble faster than they can respond to it, and you can get out of trouble faster than it can catch up to you.

Assuming my Cruisers are in the 20,000-50,000 ton range, I want my Destroyers in the 2000-5000 ton range, and will want a few scouts in the 200-500 ton range. These scouts should have high G, like 5 or more. I am expecting them to be taking the lead, looking for enemies, and then getting away from them asap. We can send a fighter out ahead to do scouting too, and let the scouts run silent nearby. Let them pick up what the fighter is illuminating. Scouts should be as stealthy as possible. Give them good jammers so they can stay out of harms way, and so they can screw up the enemy sensors once contact is made. Scouts will be armed with anti-laser and anti-missile defenses, to protect themselves and to aid in TF defense.

Destroyer-sized craft should have about half their weapons-load as missile launchers. The remainder will be lasers and anti-missile/laser defense (like sand, dampers, anti-missile lasers). They should be moderately armored and moderately maneuverable.

The Cruisers should have 2 meson guns and a PAWS as spinal mounts. The PAWS can ping at long range, and if they close with the enemy, they've got a lot of firepower to call up. Standard defenses plus a meson screen. Maneuver only needs to be about 3G.

Finally, the carrier will have 24-36 fighters and a bunch of drones, like 100 or so. Some of these drones are to be used as sensor platforms; send them forward ahead of the scouts and fighters to look for stuff, and draw it out. Others will be for combat, basically like unmanned fighters. Much cheaper to lose 30 drones than to lose 30 fighters.

So in total, the TF I'm looking at is:
3 CH (1 PAW, two Meson)
4 Colliers (2 Tanker, 1 Ammo, 1 Repair)
1 BTL, 6 BRL
8 DD
4 Scout
1 CVE w/ 24-36 fighters and 100+ drones
1 Wily, crafty, crazy SOB to Admiral the whole thing.

If available, I'd want another CVE and more DDs, and perhaps another CH or even a BC if the mission was important enough or the enemy likely to be strong. But this TF isn't looking to go toe to toe with anything big.

SOP: Pop in, do some sensing. Assuming we see nothing dangerous, pop out some drones and send the scouts out with em to expand our sphere of control. Assuming there's still no problem, identify possible targets, and then assign forces to take them out. Most times, fighters and riders will not need to be launched, but if the enemy is a little bigger than expected, well, it's nice to have those extra forces, eh?

Go perform the raid. During refueling, we are definitely going to need those extra non-jump ships to help out with high guard and low guard.

 

[Hal]

Originally posted by Savage:
I agree that it depends on the role. It also depends on budget. Are we talking Imperial Cruisers? Vargr? Aslan? There are varying sizes with different govts.

And finally, I wouldn't go with all scouts. Toss in a few close escorts if they may have to fight their way out... especially in border disputes that might have piracy, patrol cruisers....who knows what.

Savage

This is an Imperial board of procurement

Ok, since we're talking about a peace time assignment, and likely would be a detachment from an Imperial Numbered fleet - such a task group would likely not need a LOT of scouts. Then again, during extra-ordinary times - the Navy would be able to call up scouts as needed I presume.

Largest sensors available for the pickets present the senior naval officer a problem of sorts.

How far out do you place your pickets? Too far away from the elements being "safe-guarded" and the pickets risk being picked off in detail. Bring them in too close, and they tend not to be as effective at keeping the escorted ships safe. Smaller ships have a harder time carrying larger sensor arrays because they are just too darned small. Larger ships can carry better sensor systems - but larger ships are visible further away

 

[Vargas]

Yup, gotta tailor the force to fit the local situation.

Who is the expected opposition?
What are they using and what kind of logistics can they be expected to have?
What are my objectives? How long will I be actively performing this mission?
What does my logistical picture look like?
Where are my bases and other friendly forces?
What missions are those other friendly forces performing that pull potential resources away from my mission?

Ah, OK, if this were a peacetime mission, why do I need pickets? How close to 'war time' is it? What are the political components/considerations for my mission?

 

[vutpakdi]

In addition to the fleet suggested, a fleet courier or two would be useful for dispatches.

How about a few small, jump capable ships (like a Gazelle close escort or a Type T Patrol Cruiser) for misc. small tasks and scouting?

Ron

 

[Rupert Boleyn]

Originally posted by Hal:
Hello Folks,
This thread is a discussion on "what if" kind of thing.

Suppose you have a Cruiser Squadron with three Heavy cruisers, a repair ship, a supply ship with reloads for missiles, and a tanker ship to aid in fuel resupply operations.

What would you want in the way of escort ships, and what design parameters would you want met with your ships.

Keep in mind, that the navy doesn't really want to have to pay through the nose for the best ships possible - it only wants to get the job done and still have money left over for research and development costs, training costs, resupply costs, etc. So what are the MINIMUMS you want to see knowing that you may not always be able to use the MAXIMUMS you could get.

Design constraints are for GURPS TRAVELLER ships regards to sensors, weapon systems, and so on.

All thoughts are welcome in this discussion.

Hal

Okay, firstly I’m not very familiar with GT ship constraints. In particular I don’t have any real handle on how poor fighters are, or multiple small ships vs fewer big ships in GT, so I’ll be giving advice based on how I saw things worked in previous version of Traveller.

The cruisers won’t really need any escorts, as they can protect themselves and their escorts will probably just end up as targets to anything that can try it on with three CAs.

The support ships will need escorting if all three cruisers are to be able to leave them. If you only need two CAs away at any time you probably won’t need much in the way of escorts. Assuming you can’t afford to leave a large expensive CA behind as an escort I’d look for either a couple of smaller cruisers with at least as much jump as the supply ships, and lots of acceleration (so they can afford to patrol a good way out from the supply ships. Alternatively a carrier (that could simply be a converted freighter) with a decent number of SDBs (a dozen or more if possible) as sub-craft might do the trick. I wouldn’t go for fighters, as they lack punch (unless GT missiles are really good), and also lack extended patrol capability. I’d want lots of cheap (so they don’t have to be recovered if things go sour) passive sensor drones that can be placed well out from where- ever my support convoy is lurking, just in case.

 

[Rupert Boleyn]

Originally posted by Hal:

My questions are thus: why do you want ships with a high jump rating?

I wouldn’t expect escorts to have a higher jump than what they’re escorting unless they’ve been pulled from some other mission. Scouts, OTOH should have decent jump ratings. However I see little point having independent ‘jump’ scouts for a CruRon, as by the time they’ve scouted and you’ve jumped back to the scouted system their news is two weeks out of date – better to scout with the whole ‘Ron and if you’re worried about walking into the lion’s den making sure you have the fuel to jump out again.

[QB
Next item on the list of wants:
Armaments. The escort class ships are going to be used as dedicated skirmishers and as hulls to be interposed between your core fleet and any potential enemies.

One benefit of having ships between you and your potential enemies is that a pearl harbor attack can't be launched as easily upon your ships. Any missiles screaming past your picket ships aimed at the core fleet will have advanced warning. Fighters can be used to flush out any ambushing craft and have the advantage of being able to spread out further - acting against as skirmishers.

What armaments are you looking to have with your escorts in this case? What are the expected enemy hull sizes you'd want your escorts to engage versus retreat back to the core fleet? For example, you mentioned a System Defense Boat. Would you want your ships capable of handling ships their size hulls and smaller? If so, what sized hulls do you want for your escorts?
[/QB]

Personally, I’m leery of putting too many missile-heavy ships into independent squadrons – it gobbles up space in your supply train. Therefore I’d want escorts that are beam-heavy, unless the cruisers themselves were very missile-light.

 

[Rupert Boleyn]

Originally posted by The Oz:
[QB
Firepower: Escorts will concentrate on 50t missile bays, triple laser and sand turrets. Missile bays are offensive, lasers are fleet missile defense, and sand are point defense. Escorts will be in the 5000-10000 dton range and will usually have to be lightly armored. Escorts should mount a nuclear damper, but may not have a meson screen, depending on costs and tonnage.
[/QB]

While in HG missile bays the wonderful, one reason they are is they don’t need re-supply. However if that’s taken into account I suspect they’ll prove to be a mixed blessing unless you’re not far from your supply bases.

The squadron fighter carrier should be a dispersed hull design to allow all fighters to launch/land in one combat turn. By dispensing with launch tubes (and armor) you can carry more fighters. At lower TLs fighters can be very useful in large enough numbers, and also make excellent expendable scouts to check out gas giants before refuelling, etc.

The obvious down-side being that if you screw up you’re pretty much guaranteed to lose your carrier on top of the fighters.

Minimum squadron numbers:

3 Heavy Cruisers
6 Escorts
3 Support ships (tanker, ordnance supply, repair)

That's really the minimum: one escort for each ship in the squadron. With this setup, you'd have to use escorts as scouts if you needed to check out a system ahead of time.

A question: in HG what use are escorts for CAs? They can’t block missiles, and anything that can consider taking two or three CAs will simply vapourise an escort that doesn’t immediately flee.

 

[The Oz]

Originally posted by Rupert:
While in HG missile bays the wonderful, one reason they are is they don’t need re-supply. However if that’s taken into account I suspect they’ll prove to be a mixed blessing unless you’re not far from your supply bases.

Yes, but this squadron did come with an ordnance ship specified. Also, if you put in all-beam weapons your escorts will have even thinner armor and stuff because of the larger powerplant required.

The obvious down-side being that if you screw up you’re pretty much guaranteed to lose your carrier on top of the fighters.

Life is hard.... Any unit based on the tender/carrier concept always risks heavy losses if they can't win. At least this carrier can launch and recover her entire brood in one turn.

A question: in HG what use are escorts for CAs? They can’t block missiles, and anything that can consider taking two or three CAs will simply vapourise an escort that doesn’t immediately flee.

In strict HG, escorts serve only as sacrificial lambs to allow the rest of the force to jump out. However, there are plenty of canon sources that tell us that squadrons do have escorts, so I assume that those escorts serve some purpose and so include them.

Also, IMTU escorts can do more than just play sacrificial lamb, and that may have influenced my thinking in my earlier post.

 

[far-trader]

Originally posted by The Oz:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Rupert:
While in HG missile bays the wonderful, one reason they are is they don’t need re-supply. However if that’s taken into account I suspect they’ll prove to be a mixed blessing unless you’re not far from your supply bases.

Yes, but this squadron did come with an ordnance ship specified.</font>[/QUOTE]Yes but how much ordnance does it take to reload a 50T Missile Bay? And a 100T Missile Bay? And how many slavo's (turns) of fire does a Missile Bay have at ready? I'm not sure if I missed that class at the IN Academy or if it was never spelled out at all. I've asked before, now and then, here and there, with no one answering. Is it because there is no (official) answer? If not how about YTU rules for the above? I'd really love some guidance on this, even just to compare to my own gut feelings. Any rule system will do if you can provide the comparison to a standard single turret mount Missile Launcher. Thanks for help (I hope

).

 

[Rupert Boleyn]

Originally posted by The Oz:

Yes, but this squadron did come with an ordnance ship specified. Also, if you put in all-beam weapons your escorts will have even thinner armor and stuff because of the larger powerplant required.

This comes down to mission – the longer the ‘Ron is away from base, the more the need for reloads will hurt.

Life is hard.... Any unit based on the tender/carrier concept always risks heavy losses if they can't win. At least this carrier can launch and recover her entire brood in one turn.

IIRC fighters are a waste of space in HG past about TL12. The squadron rules avoid this to some extent, though they make fighters less attractive for in-system scouting (if they’re spread out scouting they can’t very well fire together as a squadron), and aren’t in HG or TCs that I can find (in fact no-one’s been able to give a canon source for those rules when I’ve asked).

In strict HG, escorts serve only as sacrificial lambs to allow the rest of the force to jump out. However, there are plenty of canon sources that tell us that squadrons do have escorts, so I assume that those escorts serve some purpose and so include them.

I’ve always assumed they’re for in-system scouting and for protecting the ‘tail’. FSotSI doesn’t show space combat ‘Rons as having much in the way of escorts, for example.

 

[savage]

Alright...a lot is being written without much being said. COTI becoming political.

If we're talking picket vessels then its silly to plop (yes plop) a CruRon and attachments randomly around the borders.

We have 2 parsec passive scanning from ships and probably more from a planet. So, you'll need a string of listening outposts.

For the border patrol squadron it needs to be able to stay out for long, low stress trips.
In CT we'd be talking the 10k colonial cruiser.
= 2x 10k colonial/border cruiser
= 1x 15k provicial carrier
= 6 close escorts, (maybe a couple scout/couriers)

Properly setup they'd have double crew (not low berth) for a long mission, low stress operation. Put two of these together with a small, low maintenance low stress carrier 10-20k.

Why go small? Budget. The big stuff stays at the naval base unless its needed. Maybe goes out 1-2/ year for the heck of it or when called in by the border patrol. Your border patrol covers about
a 6 border parsecs. Afterall, does the US coast guard need the Enterprise or Reagan....nope.

Savage

 

[Hal]

Ok, what I'm seeing here has sort of strayed from discussing a set of design requirements for ships to a organizational aspect.

I will open up another "tactical" thread in addition to a "procurement board" thread.

To answer the gentleman who asked about resupply - each missile takes up a set volume which means that after you have salvoed your missiles, you need a reload. After you've used up your reloads and are empty - you need a collier to resupply the ship. Once the colllier is empty or near empty - you will need to send the collier back with an escort or two and get resupplies.

Another reason for having "scout ships" is as a message courier - someone needs to inform the naval supply depot or *someone* that there is a need for resupply.

As for patrols? There in lies an interesting distinction.

There are N-space patrols and then there are roving J-space patrols. J-space patrols mean multiple location patrols using J-space to transit through. N-space patrols are meant to see what there is to see within the assigned region to be patrolled.

At this point, we've established for the escort class ships, a need to keep up with fleet movements as being a major MUST. We've also established that the ships need to be able to peek and sneak in system for information gathering purposes.

Armaments are now being discussed with a point towards debating resupply issues.

Another point to be brought up regards to HG issues versus GURPS TRAVELLER (abbrev as GT) issues:

GT - ships use a hex grid system.
HG - Does not

GT - has rules for sensors and detection.
HG - requires the rules from either Megatraveller or CT

points to consider: When talking about a ship being "protected" - are 6 ships surrounding it enough?

 

[Rupert Boleyn]

Originally posted by Savage:
Alright...a lot is being written without much being said. COTI becoming political.

If we're talking picket vessels then its silly to plop (yes plop) a CruRon and attachments randomly around the borders.

We have 2 parsec passive scanning from ships and probably more from a planet. So, you'll need a string of listening outposts.

Actually we don’t – no Traveller sensors are FTL so, while we can see a couple of parsecs (assuming MT sensor rules), we can’t see outside the system we’re in real time.

 

[Rupert Boleyn]

Originally posted by Hal:
[QB
Another point to be brought up regards to HG issues versus GURPS TRAVELLER (abbrev as GT) issues:

GT - ships use a hex grid system.
HG - Does not

GT - has rules for sensors and detection.
HG - requires the rules from either Megatraveller or CT

points to consider: When talking about a ship being "protected" - are 6 ships surrounding it enough? [/QB]

It depends greatly on both what is really meant by “protected”, and by the assumptions of the rules you’re using. In HG you can’t protect a vessel from incoming fire, but as long as it can fire or manoeuvre (IIRC) a single ship can protect any number of others by being in the line of battle while they stay in the reserve.

In TNE’s Battle Rider and Brilliant Lances rules a single ship can protect another from incoming missiles by staying in the same hex or nearby and shooting down the missiles (until the missiles saturate its defences). However if “protect” means holding the enemy well away you’ll probably need more than six ships unless you have plenty of sensor drones and independent missiles (which are rather expensive).