How Retro ?

[Gadrin]

One thing I've been thinking of over the past few weeks is How Retro would you go in your TU ?

I watched the entire Firefly series last week and I must admit I like the retro, "pure TL9" feel of some of the technology, especially when intermixed with some of the higher TL stuff (in Ariel or Trash and others).

This link in ShapeShifter's sig reminded me of it http://dreamsofspace.nfshost.com/1952spacepatrol.htm

plus those Russian drawings in the thread accusing the Keiths of being pinko-commies ! (Cool pix nonetheless).
http://www.travellerrpg.com/CotI/Discuss/showthread.php?t=15869&highlight=communist

Some of the Captain Proton stuff in ST:Voyager isn't half-bad either, I could see his ship or Chuck Yeager's test ship in the intro to ST:Enterprise being re-done to Traveller TL9 specs. Same with Serenity's internal computers and sensors, just plain old...er...plain.

GURPS Space 3e had some nice retro-tech drawings too. Plus the stuff you can find on the web.

What's your feelings on it ?


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[leo knight]

I'm seriously tempted to do my universe in 1950s rocketship style, tail-sitter rockets, no antigrav, just good old Robert Heinlein physics. I've always loved Andre Norton's "Zero Stone", and A.M. Lightner's "Space Ark" and "Space Olympics". I could never figure out how to get a boarding ramp to work in one of those things, though.

Of course, I could go all flying saucer, like "Forbidden Planet"s C57D or the Jupiter 2!

 

[aramis]

Firefly feels like some backwaters of MTU...

but I don't do "seriously retro"... I like my tech to work, and while one might very well see a ship's captain carrying a handmade horsepistol, I don't do "finned helmets and zapguns".

Now, the Russian drawings, they work. The Kieths and Liz Danforth defined the look and feel of MTU.

 

[sabredog]

I got tired enough of the high tech (TL-15) density, not to mention population density, of my non-OTU that I recently bumped the whole thing forward by 20 years and blew it up.

That way I could tear up and burn down the strip between the major powers the players were most active in by having a nice big intergalactic type war. The kind in the Flandry novels, where to save a world you sometimes had to bomb it into oblivion. Then the major powers pulled back to the original start lines and then some, the treaty says they can't interfere militarily with those worlds (about 3 subsectors worth), but they can send trade missions and use some low tech (TL-11,12) small ships (no more 500K battleships, just 5000 and less) to protect "citizens and trade interests of the Empire".

So now the TL of most places crashed to around and average of 9...ranging from 8-13 depending on how close you are to a trade route or empire. Lots more importation results in taxation which equals plenty of Firefly-type smuggling and dealing while dodging customs cops, so it keeps those Free Traders flying.

More slugthrowers, less laser pistols. Actually, more gunpowder, less gauss, too. The players loved it once they got used to the lower tech feel. I'm shooting constantly for something between Firefly and Outland/Aliens. Air/Rafts are out and wheels are in.

 

[jawillroy]

I go pretty much as retro as I can get the Three Little Books to take me. Less grav, more wheels, for certain: Fewer and smaller ships. Tech levels tend to hover around 10 or so on average, just from the natural rolls, so I don't feel like I have to push too much around to get there.

 

[Vile]

MTU is more 70's retro than anything else, probably because that was when I first got into SF. So, my Traveller universe looks and feels like Blakes 7 would have if they had had a special effects budget (really, some episodes were filmed with no SFX budget). I mentioned elsewhere that clothing IMTU was remarkably similar to Buck Rogers in the 25th Century. All of this ties in remarkably well with a game which was published around the same time. My starships really do have rooms filled with computers.

Another reason for "retro-SF" is my friend who sells "security equipment" (i.e. stuff for spying on people) to governments. Based on some of the fiendishly clever devices availabe to those in power, there would be precious little room for adventurer shenannigans in our realistic future.

 

[tbeard1999]

I mentioned elsewhere that clothing IMTU was remarkably similar to Buck Rogers in the 25th Century.

I think I'd like YTU. I applaud the aesthetics of the jumpsuits Col. Deering wore in the TV series...

http://www.eringray.us/photos/index.html

Come to think of it, most of her outfits, uh, fit well.

 

[Vile]

Of course, that does mean that male corsetry sells quite well IMTU ...

 

[Sifu Blackirish]

I was peeking at this thread, and its awesome references, and stumbled upon a major source that I will share with you all...

http://www.paleofuture.com/

When you are a voracious reader, you occasionally run across something worthwhile.

 

[BlackBat242]

Since ~1989, I've been running CT with the following TL set:

average: 10-11
state-of-the-art: 12
experimental: 13


I like it much better that way.

 

[Gadrin]

Since ~1989, I've been running CT with the following TL set:

average: 10-11
state-of-the-art: 12
experimental: 13


I like it much better that way.

Yeah, I'm getting into Milieu-Zero which fits that paradigm:

High enough tech to keep the characters interested in the overall setting and higher technology which the GM can use to "bi-tch slap them around"
when they need it

ah, here we go...

 

[aramis]

That a Type S, Gadrin? (looks the right size)

It's pretty, whatever it is.

 

[Gadrin]

That a Type S, Gadrin? (looks the right size)

It's pretty, whatever it is.

Nay, it's from Star Trek: Voyager, one of the holoprograms they run is Captain Proton, a BW throw-back to the old terra serials. I assume it's a homage to Flash Gordon, but I'm not that knowledgeable about the industry and history of it all.

Screen Caps of the ep "Night" here: http://voy.trekcore.com/gallery/thumbnails.php?album=81

It's a fun way to incorporate some unusual stuff into the show.

Here's one of the original: http://www.dvdbeaver.com/film/DVDReviews10/flash_gordon_conquers_the_universe_.htm

you can google for more images.


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[Magnus von Thornwood]

Retro? bleck!

Retro is called the Spinward Marches in MTU. The stellar TL is low compared to the TL F+ in/around Core, but that's just me.

David Dietrick is the Man for how MTU looks, and lastly, really dig the Jupiter 2 stuff, god I love that ship...

Though, now that you mention it, I never really did have PCs that had energy weapons, but they do have air/rafts, but so did Serenity.

 

[jawillroy]

Just as soon as I get settled into a comfortable position on the retrosity of MTU, I go and read something that makes me want to scale everything back. Finally (shocking that it has taken so long) getting down to reading Mote in God's Eye, and the business of shifting the ship from rotational to thrust gravity is making me want to change everything up again.

Just looking at LBB123, I think you could make a good case for having grav tech being much less ubiquitous - having it around as early as tech 8 but much too expensive to pave your ships with it until some cutoff at, say, tech 12 or 13 or so.

(Going this route would basically erase the OTU oeuvre, but I've an ATU anyhow.)

Thinking of the streamlined ships, they'd have to be configured to use acceleration-gravity while underway, but would have acceleration couches at 90% for landfall. Unstreamlined ships might use rotational gravity.

In other words, in terms of thinking about it, I'm really attracted to a game like this. In terms of actually running the game, it's a screaming PITA and that sends be back to grav plates and inertial compensation.

 

[leo knight]

In other words, in terms of thinking about it, I'm really attracted to a game like this. In terms of actually running the game, it's a screaming PITA and that sends be back to grav plates and inertial compensation.

Second. I keep hanging around Atomic Rockets and reminiscing about the fiction of my youth. Then I remember my players' usual reaction is to shoot something. A lot. Acceleration? Gs? Que? I do keep toying with this, since no inertial compensation/ artificial gravity makes a natural limit on acceleration for manned vessels. Civilian vessels would cruise at 1G, scouts would be hardened to 2Gs, military would have special couches, etc. to withstand 3 or more Gs. Of course, what happens in jumpspace is anyone's guess.

Perhaps that could be the motto of a cruise line: "What happens in jumpspace stays in jumpspace!"

 

[sabredog]

Just as soon as I get settled into a comfortable position on the retrosity of MTU, I go and read something that makes me want to scale everything back. Finally (shocking that it has taken so long) getting down to reading Mote in God's Eye, and the business of shifting the ship from rotational to thrust gravity is making me want to change everything up again.

Just looking at LBB123, I think you could make a good case for having grav tech being much less ubiquitous - having it around as early as tech 8 but much too expensive to pave your ships with it until some cutoff at, say, tech 12 or 13 or so.

(Going this route would basically erase the OTU oeuvre, but I've an ATU anyhow.)

Thinking of the streamlined ships, they'd have to be configured to use acceleration-gravity while underway, but would have acceleration couches at 90% for landfall. Unstreamlined ships might use rotational gravity.

In other words, in terms of thinking about it, I'm really attracted to a game like this. In terms of actually running the game, it's a screaming PITA and that sends be back to grav plates and inertial compensation.

IMTU, no matter how high the tech was, the military SOP when going to general quarters was to shut off the gravity. That way it made it harder for anyone boarding the ship and it avoided the problems of having the gravity everyone is used to suddenly shut off as a result of damage. Everyone was in vacc suits or armor anyway and ready for a breach so they have equipment to allow them to move around (not to mention the training), and the big ships were designed with zero grav conditions in mind. Artificial gravity was just a convenience. The only thing you have to design for is making sure the decks run width-wise instead of lengthwise when drawing the plans. Then you will always have thrust-induced gravity. Just make sure you ring the vector change bells to give people not strapped down a chance to grab onto something before changing course.

My warships (at least the big ones) wouldn't be dodging around making massive vector changes anyway - the little ones (5000 or less) do that; everyone's strapped in and hanging onto their lunch for that sort of thing. As a further retro aside, the intercoms have a recorded drumroll going when they "Beat to Quarters" and the crew scrambled to secure from artificial gravity and "run out the lasers". Though some ship's captains prefer bugles sounding "Boots and Saddles", but those are the Scouts for you.

BTW: how much more "retro" does it have to get when the guys flying around in starships are also hacking at eachother with cutlasses?

 

[sabredog]

Just as soon as I get settled into a comfortable position on the retrosity of MTU, I go and read something that makes me want to scale everything back. Finally (shocking that it has taken so long) getting down to reading Mote in God's Eye, and the business of shifting the ship from rotational to thrust gravity is making me want to change everything up again.

Here's a link to an excellent model of the INSS MacArthur from the book.

http://www.starshipmodeler.net/contest4/ss_s15.htm

Also here is an exhaustive site on the spaceship model that inspired the ship design in the book according to the authors.

http://www.projectrho.com/SSC/index.html

 

[leo knight]

I love the Leif Ericson, even though I had the glow-in-the-dark "Mystery UFO" instead. Check out the rest of that section of his site for several cool alternate "Ericson-verse" designs.

As a further retro aside, the intercoms have a recorded drumroll going when they "Beat to Quarters" and the crew scrambled to secure from artificial gravity and "run out the lasers".

Like the PA system in Stingray?

 

[Icosahedron]

Leo, where does the Jupiter 2 originate? I seem to remember a ship of that name in a SF book I read as a kid, could it be the same one?

IMTU Governments have access to fairly high technology, especially the Imperium, but most individuals use low tech stuff. Wheels are so much cheaper than Grav, and bullets cost a lot less than laser cartridges. The military keep a tight rein on energy weapons and any armour that will resist them, so my adventurers have their fun with slugs, cloth and ground cars.