[Hard Times] Pre-Gravitic engines and engine wash

[Golan2072]

I was just reading through the "One Small Step" part of Hard Times when it struck me - some engines (heck, most of) described there would have a deadly engine wash, possibly even used as a tactical weapon; some (such as fusion rockets) would possibly be impossible to use for ground-to-orbit launches (can enough concrete/bedrock survive under a point-blank fusion engine-wash?). So what is your take on engine washes? Ignore them for simplicity's sake? Take them into account? Use them as weapons?

On a similar subject, can a large mass-driver be used to launch cargoes (or even men?) from a planet's surface to orbit? I recall a Arthur C. Clarke short story (I read it years ago so I don't remember the name) about such rail-launcher launching manned pods from the Lunar surface.

 

[Golan2072]

I was just reading through the "One Small Step" part of Hard Times when it struck me - some engines (heck, most of) described there would have a deadly engine wash, possibly even used as a tactical weapon; some (such as fusion rockets) would possibly be impossible to use for ground-to-orbit launches (can enough concrete/bedrock survive under a point-blank fusion engine-wash?). So what is your take on engine washes? Ignore them for simplicity's sake? Take them into account? Use them as weapons?

On a similar subject, can a large mass-driver be used to launch cargoes (or even men?) from a planet's surface to orbit? I recall a Arthur C. Clarke short story (I read it years ago so I don't remember the name) about such rail-launcher launching manned pods from the Lunar surface.

 

[Golan2072]

I was just reading through the "One Small Step" part of Hard Times when it struck me - some engines (heck, most of) described there would have a deadly engine wash, possibly even used as a tactical weapon; some (such as fusion rockets) would possibly be impossible to use for ground-to-orbit launches (can enough concrete/bedrock survive under a point-blank fusion engine-wash?). So what is your take on engine washes? Ignore them for simplicity's sake? Take them into account? Use them as weapons?

On a similar subject, can a large mass-driver be used to launch cargoes (or even men?) from a planet's surface to orbit? I recall a Arthur C. Clarke short story (I read it years ago so I don't remember the name) about such rail-launcher launching manned pods from the Lunar surface.

 

[mike wightman]

In High Guard version 1 a ship's fusion based maneuver drive could be used as a fusion gun with a factor equal to the drive rating, but only at short range, and the range changes to long automatically.

 

[mike wightman]

In High Guard version 1 a ship's fusion based maneuver drive could be used as a fusion gun with a factor equal to the drive rating, but only at short range, and the range changes to long automatically.

 

[mike wightman]

In High Guard version 1 a ship's fusion based maneuver drive could be used as a fusion gun with a factor equal to the drive rating, but only at short range, and the range changes to long automatically.

 

[Golan2072]

So what about planetary takeoffs? Or mass-driver craft launchers?

 

[Golan2072]

So what about planetary takeoffs? Or mass-driver craft launchers?

 

[Golan2072]

So what about planetary takeoffs? Or mass-driver craft launchers?

 

[Piper]

Originally posted by Employee 2-4601:
... can enough concrete/bedrock survive under a point-blank fusion engine-wash?

This page deals with landing wash. Short answer is no, try landing in water instead as in David Drake's "Leary" novels, among others.

On a similar subject, can a large mass-driver be used to launch cargoes (or even men?) from a planet's surface to orbit?

Cargo, yes. With people, it depends on the escape velocity of the planet and the atmosphere.
See link and link for details.

 

[Piper]

Originally posted by Employee 2-4601:
... can enough concrete/bedrock survive under a point-blank fusion engine-wash?

This page deals with landing wash. Short answer is no, try landing in water instead as in David Drake's "Leary" novels, among others.

On a similar subject, can a large mass-driver be used to launch cargoes (or even men?) from a planet's surface to orbit?

Cargo, yes. With people, it depends on the escape velocity of the planet and the atmosphere.
See link and link for details.

 

[Piper]

Originally posted by Employee 2-4601:
... can enough concrete/bedrock survive under a point-blank fusion engine-wash?

This page deals with landing wash. Short answer is no, try landing in water instead as in David Drake's "Leary" novels, among others.

On a similar subject, can a large mass-driver be used to launch cargoes (or even men?) from a planet's surface to orbit?

Cargo, yes. With people, it depends on the escape velocity of the planet and the atmosphere.
See link and link for details.

 

[Golan2072]

Thanks!
So I think that Earth is going to be a bit cut off (unless it'll have a 'beanstalk') from the interplanetary community once Luna and the Astroid Belt get industrialized and colonized enough: big gravity well + big atmosphere = VERY expensive launch.

And a ship using an ultra-hot exaust engine (i.e. plasma or fusion) would probably have secondary engines (scramjet/rocket hybrids for atmospheres, downright chem-rockets for bodies without). But once a planet gets a 'beanstalk', ofcourse, landing would be rarely done by a ship anymore on it.

 

[Golan2072]

Thanks!
So I think that Earth is going to be a bit cut off (unless it'll have a 'beanstalk') from the interplanetary community once Luna and the Astroid Belt get industrialized and colonized enough: big gravity well + big atmosphere = VERY expensive launch.

And a ship using an ultra-hot exaust engine (i.e. plasma or fusion) would probably have secondary engines (scramjet/rocket hybrids for atmospheres, downright chem-rockets for bodies without). But once a planet gets a 'beanstalk', ofcourse, landing would be rarely done by a ship anymore on it.

 

[Golan2072]

Thanks!
So I think that Earth is going to be a bit cut off (unless it'll have a 'beanstalk') from the interplanetary community once Luna and the Astroid Belt get industrialized and colonized enough: big gravity well + big atmosphere = VERY expensive launch.

And a ship using an ultra-hot exaust engine (i.e. plasma or fusion) would probably have secondary engines (scramjet/rocket hybrids for atmospheres, downright chem-rockets for bodies without). But once a planet gets a 'beanstalk', ofcourse, landing would be rarely done by a ship anymore on it.

 

[mike wightman]

A hybrid engine would definitely be the way to go IMHO.

What you need is a "smart" engine that can vary its intake profile, and use the power plant to superheat the air. Have a turbine for take off, that converts to a scramjet at speed/altitude, and then converts to a full on rocket once beyond the upper atmosphere.

Such engines are TL8 in FF&S, with fusion rockets at TL9.
I would allow a fusion based hybrid engine at TL9 IMTU.

 

[mike wightman]

A hybrid engine would definitely be the way to go IMHO.

What you need is a "smart" engine that can vary its intake profile, and use the power plant to superheat the air. Have a turbine for take off, that converts to a scramjet at speed/altitude, and then converts to a full on rocket once beyond the upper atmosphere.

Such engines are TL8 in FF&S, with fusion rockets at TL9.
I would allow a fusion based hybrid engine at TL9 IMTU.

 

[mike wightman]

A hybrid engine would definitely be the way to go IMHO.

What you need is a "smart" engine that can vary its intake profile, and use the power plant to superheat the air. Have a turbine for take off, that converts to a scramjet at speed/altitude, and then converts to a full on rocket once beyond the upper atmosphere.

Such engines are TL8 in FF&S, with fusion rockets at TL9.
I would allow a fusion based hybrid engine at TL9 IMTU.

 

[parmasson]

So I think that Earth is going to be a bit cut off (unless it'll have a 'beanstalk') from the interplanetary community once Luna and the Astroid Belt get industrialized and colonized enough: big gravity well + big atmosphere = VERY expensive launch.

Yes and no. With billions of people it is still going to be the biggest market for both finished goods and raw materials. You might just have more going down that up. Food might or might not be an issue too.

 

[parmasson]

So I think that Earth is going to be a bit cut off (unless it'll have a 'beanstalk') from the interplanetary community once Luna and the Astroid Belt get industrialized and colonized enough: big gravity well + big atmosphere = VERY expensive launch.

Yes and no. With billions of people it is still going to be the biggest market for both finished goods and raw materials. You might just have more going down that up. Food might or might not be an issue too.