Golden Age Starships 5: Cutters and Shuttles now available

[Michael Taylor]

I have posted the next issue in the Golden Age Starships series: Cutters and Shuttles, on the site. The supplement also includes 8 Cutter modules.

Link is here:
Golden Age Starships 5: Cutters and Shuttles

regards

Michael

 

[jappel]

Michael,

What's the deal with the 65-ton military cutter, sir? Cutters have been 50-dton vessels since the very beginning... what's the reasoning behind the change?

No flameage intended, simply curious about the reasoning.

- John

 

[Michael Taylor]

Hi John

In keeping with GURPs Traveller, we designed a 65 ton military cutter version, which is armored and has a higher maneuver rating. It houses the same 30 ton modules. It is implied that the military use both types of Cutter depending on circumstances, both the 50 ton "civilian" version and the 65 ton "military" version.
So in a sense we have not changed anything - the 50 ton cutter remains the same, but we've added an uprated military version ala GURPS Modular Cutter.

 

[al duc]

Originally posted by Michael Taylor:
So in a sense we have not changed anything - the 50 ton cutter remains the same, but we've added an uprated military version ala GURPS Modular Cutter.

Odd. I have GURPS Modular Cutter right here, and I can't find any 65 ton cutter. There's two military models (three if you count the "Advance Cutter"), and they're 50 ton. Am I overlooking it?

 

[vutpakdi]

The 65 ton military cutter is an attempt to provide a version which has decent stats (3G, light armor, Medium Sensors/Comm) for military usage under T20 rules. The T20 basic version (the civilian modular cutter) seems to be quite unacceptable from a military standpoint (low performance (2G) , no armor, poor sensors/comm).

Ron

 

[far-trader]

Originally posted by Ron Vutpakdi:
The 65 ton military cutter is an attempt to provide a version which has decent stats (3G, light armor, Medium Sensors/Comm) for military usage under T20 rules. The T20 basic version (the civilian modular cutter) seems to be quite unacceptable from a military standpoint (low performance (2G) , no armor, poor sensors/comm).

Ron

But that's because it's a TL9* version. And poorly designed at that. I've done a better (than the T20 book) translation of the CT classic with its 4G at TL9 and I've got upgraded models at TL13 and TL15 including Navalized versions for the IN with specialized modules. The thing is you have to bend the rules a bit so they probably can't be called official. And by bend I mean very little, stuff like allowing small craft to operate with a model/0 computer.

* I see now it's TL10 in the book but I can't see why

Anyway while the IN might operate heavy cutters (the 65ton size) most of canon is pretty clear that the IN standard for small craft is 50tons and that's what they build their launch tubes to handle. Throwing a 65ton craft into the mix means it is (or should be) relagated to base duty or very limited use aboard ships since it'll have to have a dedicated launch bay or be mounted externally. imo. ymmv.

 

[Michael Taylor]

The supplement's 50 ton design had to follow the standard T20 design, so we did.

 

[far-trader]

Yes, I quite understand that. I meant no slight on that respect.

And hey, it's a big Empire, lots of room for varient designs

And then there's all the alien versions too.

 

[far-trader]

Say, are they all TL10* versions? Or did you do a couple higher TL models as well? What TL is the 65ton model?

* typed TL9 earlier, not sure what makes it TL10

 

[veltyen]

Hmmm I always assumed a militarised modular cutter would have smaller modules, rather then be bigger.

 

[vutpakdi]

The 65 ton military cutter is designed at TL-12.

In terms of the T20 rules, the killer is the 10 tons (for a craft of 50 tons in size) devoted to bridge space. I could have upped the TL to 15 and created a better 50 ton cutter, but that doesn't seem to make much sense for cutters at the 993 era since only a few star systems are at TL-15 in that era.

So, it seems like the choices are bend the rules or bend the canon. Either way, we're bending something....

Ron

 

[Michael Taylor]

Ron and I are really enjoying the process of putting together these supplements. Don't know why they weren't done 20 years ago. Number 7 in the series will be a 300 ton modular starship that uses 30 ton cutter modules - that will also include another 8 or so Cutter modules useful for starships.

 

[Maladominus]

Were you the same ones that designed the Fast Courier scoutship?

Cuz I'm tempted to buy that PDF... sounds to me like a perfect scoutship for a group of players who are primarily explorers (or planet hoppers). Nice and cozy enough to be just a 200ton vessel, but big enough to have more elbow room than the cramped Suleiman Type S.

 

[BetterThanLife]

Originally posted by Ron Vutpakdi:
The 65 ton military cutter is designed at TL-12.

In terms of the T20 rules, the killer is the 10 tons (for a craft of 50 tons in size) devoted to bridge space. I could have upped the TL to 12 and created a better 50 ton cutter, but that doesn't seem to make much sense for cutters at the 993 era since only a few star systems are at TL-15 in that era.

So, it seems like the choices are bend the rules or bend the canon. Either way, we're bending something....

Ron

Few starsystems are at TL-15 in that era but the Imperial Navy is almost universally TL-14 borderline TL-15 in 993. So it would stand to reason that the standard Military Cutter and other standard Military small craft would be a minimum of TL-13. At TL-13 you can build a decent 50 ton modular cutter. (TL-15 is of course better.) There are two problems with the 50 ton modular cutter in T20. The first is the requirement for a bridge the second is the fact that so many people are stuck on building ships at TL-9, with TL-9 Fusion plants.

I understand the concept that there are so many of the small craft that they might not have gotten around to replacing all of them, but the advantages of new build TL-13+ craft far outweigh any need to keep older models in service. The powerplant and weapons jump significantly, especially in small craft that anything before TL13 would be replaced in military service if only because they would stop stocking the parts to keep them running without upgrading the systems to TL13+.

 

[BetterThanLife]

Having purchased all but the latest one (cutters and shuttles) I have to say that I like the designs and the plans. However the best one of the lot is definitely the Fast Courier, though the Sword Worlds Patrol Cruiser will have a special place IMTU. Personally I would be more interested in starships in the typical adventurer size range than small craft. The Fast Courier is definitely a good buy.

Michael if you are reading this I have a request, can we get back to the ships instead of small craft style ships. Perhaps the T20 version of the ubiquitous Type-T, or the T20 Broadsword, T20 Kinunir, Valor, Lucifer, Maru, etc would definitely be welcome additions to the list.

Originally posted by Maladominus:
Were you the same ones that designed the Fast Courier scoutship?

Cuz I'm tempted to buy that PDF... sounds to me like a perfect scoutship for a group of players who are primarily explorers (or planet hoppers). Nice and cozy enough to be just a 200ton vessel, but big enough to have more elbow room than the cramped Suleiman Type S.

 

[far-trader]

Originally posted by Bhoins:
There are two problems with the 50 ton modular cutter in T20. The first is the requirement for a bridge the second is the fact that so many people are stuck on building ships at TL-9, with TL-9 Fusion plants.

I understand the concept that there are so many of the small craft that they might not have gotten around to replacing all of them, but the advantages of new build TL-13+ craft far outweigh any need to keep older models in service. The powerplant and weapons jump significantly, especially in small craft that anything before TL13 would be replaced in military service if only because they would stop stocking the parts to keep them running without upgrading the systems to TL13+.

I see it more as a local contract and maintenance issue myself. My interpretation is that you can't easily service a TL13 ship at a TL9 starport, so for all those worlds they don't import above their TL. Not that you can't build or repair above your local TL, just that it's not easy or economical.

And further, imtu The Imperium restricts the higher TL designs to certain parties as a control of space measure. Most private individuals are limited to owning TL9-12. Minor nobles, Client State world governments, and some Corporations are allowed to own TL13-14. Only the high nobility, Imperial world governments, a few Megacorporations and of course The Imperial Forces are allowed access to TL15 plus... which is not to say that there aren't some who break those laws.

 

[Michael Taylor]

Quote from Bhoins: "Having purchased all but the latest one (cutters and shuttles) I have to say that I like the designs and the plans. However the best one of the lot is definitely the Fast Courier, though the Sword Worlds Patrol Cruiser will have a special place IMTU. Personally I would be more interested in starships in the typical adventurer size range than small craft. The Fast Courier is definitely a good buy.

Thanks.

Michael if you are reading this I have a request, can we get back to the ships instead of small craft style ships. Perhaps the T20 version of the ubiquitous Type-T, or the T20 Broadsword, T20 Kinunir, Valor, Lucifer, Maru, etc would definitely be welcome additions to the list.

Hi Bhoins: The intention is to get back to starships. I envisage 10 in the series. Number 7 will be a 300 ton modular starship using cutter modules. Number 6 is finsihed, waiting for Hunter to activate it (400 ton corsair). It has 5 pirate bands operatin in the Marches (although they could be transplanted anywhere),


quote:
Originally posted by Maladominus:
Were you the same ones that designed the Fast Courier scoutship?

Yep. Well, I designed and wrote the fast courier supplement. Ron and I shared the small craft designs. The fast courier is J-3, 2-g, 24 tons of cargo. The supplement includes ways of making a ship like that pay for itself if one is using it in a fast courier type operation.

Cuz I'm tempted to buy that PDF... sounds to me like a perfect scoutship for a group of players who are primarily explorers (or planet hoppers). Nice and cozy enough to be just a 200ton vessel, but big enough to have more elbow room than the cramped Suleiman Type S."

 

[mike wightman]

And just to add something to this discussion, TNE has the modular cutter as TL12, T4 it is TL9, while in MT it is TL15.

So there is probably some form of modular cutter built at each TL.

That small craft bridge in T20 is a real stinker isn't it

Could you give the MC a 4t bridge since it is only 20t without the module?

 

[jappel]

Ah, the Law of Unintended Consequences rears it's pesky head once again. Thanks for the explanation.

Sounds like these are worth picking up. Now I know where September's gaming budget is going.

- John

 

[far-trader]

Sidebar:

Originally posted by Sigg Oddra:
That small craft bridge in T20 is a real stinker isn't it

Could you give the MC a 4t bridge since it is only 20t without the module?

Reading my mind or did I share that in some post or design around here

I did do a T20 TL9 Cutter that way. Built as a 20ton craft with an externally carried 30ton module. That way I was able to justify a 4ton bridge and incorporate some realism in the carrying of the module by paying the volume and cost for external clamps, also based on the 20ton side (being the smaller). Of course since that is 6tons the total is back to the 10tons for the bridge. But I do like the reasoning behind it better. What's more in a fudged kind of way that design also is 4g like it's predecessors, without the module

Anyway, one T20 rule I don't mind bending is the controls since they are too different. I can see, since both a helm and computer are required, allowing a literal interpretation of "mininmum 4ton bridge" and also allowing the model/0 computer suite suggested by the computer design rules. That lets one build small craft that only need 4tons and MCr0.1 to fly. My model/0 handwave is an effective 0tons and MCr0 included as part of the helm or bridge of all ships.