G:Traveller sourcebooks useful for other versions of Traveller?

[anders lager]

Hi!

Using MT as base rules (for whatever era), which GT books are useful as background reading/source material/inspiration?

I just got hold of "Rim of Fire" (yes, I'm a Solomani fan...) and I find the book very good, and useful for whatever Trav system. Are there any other books of this calibre out there? Any recommendations?

/doc

 

[jfetters]

Most have a decent amount of material in them. Of the ones I own, I enjoy:

Interstellar Wars (probably the best one of the bunch)
Nobles
Starports
First In
Humaniti

Not necessarily in that order.

 

[Spinward Scout]

Behind the Claw is good if you like the Spinward Marches - just don't go past the timeline where MT starts (I think it's 1116). I really liked First In, too.

 

[Vargas]

Behind the Claw is good if you like the Spinward Marches . . .

It's good as long as you have no prior knowlege of the Marches.

If you don't have any Traveller sourcebooks, just about anything by SJG is good because they built their products off of canon material and just layered on some chrome. I think the Alien books are good but don't expect a lot out of the minor races created out of whole cloth by SJG.

 

[Rindis]

I've seen a couple comments against Behind the Claw - what exactly is the problem? (Other than silly amounts of errata.)

And keep in mind that I fully expect to never see a copy of The Spinward Marches Campaign, much less own a copy.

 

[danbuter]

Spinward Marches had a bunch of errata in the populations, etc. You can download the errata from the Gurps site. I just used white-out tape and a pen, and my Spinward Marches book is perfectly fine.

BTW, if you live in the State College area, they have 2 copies sitting there getting dusty.

 

[mbrinkhues]

BtC dares to be different than the holly canon and together with the rather large errata section this (mostly the former) has some guys up in protest. People who never owned the earlier material or do not compare "Dusty old book" with BtC will likely never notice the differences nor care about it.

But the combination of a vocal minority and a silent majority always gets a wrong impression (100.000 protesters sounds a lot - until you realise it's 0.3 percent of the VOTERS in your country)

 

[mbrinkhues]

BtC dares to be different than the holly canon and together with the rather large errata section this (mostly the former) has some guys up in protest. People who never owned the earlier material or do not compare "Dusty old book" with BtC will likely never notice the differences nor care about it.

But the combination of a vocal minority and a silent majority always gets a wrong impression (100.000 protesters sounds a lot - until you realise it's 0.3 percent of the VOTERS in your country)

 

[Vargas]

BtC dares to be different than the holly canon and together with the rather large errata section this (mostly the former) has some guys up in protest. People who never owned the earlier material or do not compare "Dusty old book" with BtC will likely never notice the differences nor care about it.

While no doubt true, any company supporting a long running background setting, be it Traveller or something like Star Trek, needs to serve two masters.

And on a separate, personal note, I just didn't find the write ups in BtC all that impressive.

 

[kafka47]

I found the Aliens books quite good (at least the ones that dealt with the Major Races) for MT especially the write-up on the Zhodani provides some motivations hitherto unknown that would make for interesting adventures should your MT be in the Marches or if you have the Zhodani as shadowmasters behind the Imperial Intelligence Agencies...

Humaniti is a real mixed bag, some of the races are really well done, others are well...GURPS. Rim of Fire remains my favorite but you will find some jewels in Starships, assuming you do not have the DGP product which is superior. Anything that Jon or Hans has touched is real gold, so it might be worthwhile to see what they contributed to JTAS and can be ported into MT without too much difficulties.

BTC, is a nice summary of the Marches but as MJD has said many times, this was a rushed product. Perhaps, his Marches supplement for Mongoose will correct many of the errors that this first manuscript did not deal with and at the same time have many of the gems that BTC contains.

 

[rancke]

I've seen a couple comments against Behind the Claw - what exactly is the problem? (Other than silly amounts of errata.)

Two problems: 1) The amount of errata is far too low (i.e. there are a lot of discrepancies with previously published material that hasn't been errata'ed). 2) There are a number of internal inconsistencies.

I don't have BtC at hand today, so I won't list any examples, but if you've read through BtC without saying "Huh?!?" to yourself quite a lot, I suggest you try reading it again...

To be fair, some of the inconsistencies are what I call "legacy problems", i.e. inconsistencies introduced by previously published material. The authors were not asked to correct those inconsistencies, and might not have been allowed to do so if they had tried.

And keep in mind that I fully expect to never see a copy of The Spinward Marches Campaign, much less own a copy.

If you don't know about the discrepancies and don't mind the inconsistencies (or disagree that they are inconsistencies), then there's absolutely no problem with BtC for you. There's no earthly reason why you should care about previous canon, except that if you base your TU on some statement from, say, BtC, and someone else writes an adventure based on the previously published information that BtC ignored, you won't be able to use that adventure. That may or may not be something you give a fig about.

My biggest problem with BtC is that it's hard enough to keep a shared universe self-consistent when everybody respects what earlier authors did. It becomes much harder if new authors feel entitled to change things around for no better reason than they like their own ideas better. Please note that I'm not saying that there aren't legitimate reasons to retcon previously published material[*], just that "I like my idea better" isn't one of them. Even there I'm not a fanatic. If a sparkling new idea makes for a vastly better RPG setting, then I'm all for it. But 'slightly better' isn't enough to outweigh the inconvenience of changing things around.


[*] Hey, there are CT bits that I blame BtC (and Marc Miller) for NOT changing .


If you want to be able to use Traveller material produced by other people (fans and professionals alike), you have a better chance if you and they both stick as closely to the same shared universe as possible. You are not obliged to stick to canon, but if you don't, you've no complaint coming when some future product proves incompatible with what you've established in your TU.

The people who write stuff for publication, OTOH, is IMO obliged to stick to it. So when new material contradicts previously published material for no better reason than the author didn't get his facts straight (and I sort of doubt that ALL the differences between BtC and PPM were deliberate ), I feel I DO have a complaint coming. Note the 'for no better reason' bit. If the new material fixes a problem with previous canon, I not only applaud it, I feel I have a complaint coming if it doesn't ;-).



Hans

 

[Vargas]

Perhaps, his Marches supplement for Mongoose will correct many of the errors that this first manuscript did not deal with and at the same time have many of the gems that BTC contains.

Out of curiousity only, what were the gems you saw in the book? I ask not to pick a fight or disagree with you but merely to gain insight.

 

[kafka47]

Just off the top of my head...

(a) Backstory about strange vessels from the Interstellar Wars making their way through the Marches.
(b) New MegaCorps - Havicola
(c) The Super Droyne
(d) backgrounders on Arden

There are a few others but as I haven't used the Marches as a backdrop for some time, I can't remember but I have always been more of a heretic than canonista.

 

[Rindis]

I agree, keeping with previous canon is good. I didn't notice any real inconsistencies internal to the book, however (love to hear about them).

I really wish that GT had just said 'heck with it' and bothered to use UPCs as well as verbiage. I know of two places where BtC disagrees with previous canon (don't remember them off hand, but they weren't anywhere major).

I did do up Traveller UPCs off of BTC, and the Law codes when all over the place. :nonono: Other than that, accounting for errata (and yes, obvious but unreleased errata) it seemed good on that end.

The 'write at least a paragraph on each planet' idea obviously didn't work so well. But they learned and did better in RoF. And it's still better than the soulless Suppliment 3 (the most I've got, plus some adventures).

And the maps were poor (says the map-geek).

But I liked the writeups for the most part, and I like the 'new history' given-except for the Sword Worlds/Border Worlds, it doesn't feel right. I still need to get GT:Swords Worlds though.

 

[Vargas]

The 'write at least a paragraph on each planet' idea obviously didn't work so well. But they learned and did better in RoF. And it's still better than the soulless Suppliment 3 (the most I've got, plus some adventures).

People love to hammer Suppliment 3 but given it was written in, what, '79 or '80, I can't get too worked up about it personally. Remember, this was back during a time when there wasn't a Web full of subsector generators available 24/7, so having a prerolled sector was pretty nifty.

 

[aramis]

Sup 3 was written when a subsector could be a good day's work, and very few people could afford a computer that could run a spreadsheet.

When I got into Traveller in 1983, access to computers was not a given. My Ref had a brand new IBM PC. Scott had an Apple //e. I had a Kaypro 2, that I shared with my dad. (I got the Laser 128ex Apple //c 'clone' the following spring, shared with Mom, and then Christmas 85, I got the Adam expansion for the Colecovision.)

Computing power for the gamer was unlikely for most, or snuck in on the mainframes for the collegiate types.

So having the sector books was a HUGE time saver.

Automating it meant, for me, writing the program in BASIC, then running it, then manually editing the output files to add names. And generating a sector at just UPP's took 10 minutes, and mapping was done by hand

Now, it's quite possible to automate and churn out a whole sector detailed to Book 6 levels in a few minutes, and have automatic maps for system and sector included.

I was thrilled with Sup 3. And Sup 10 (Sol. Rim.) And each AM.

Heck, I liked (and still do) the Judges Guild Sectors despite the excreble maps. (The data level was nearly the same as S3 or S10, and the encounter tables in the back more useful. Now if only I had stats for the Danin.)

Now, the text labels for every world approach doesn't give any more data than the UWP, and takes a lot of space; a tabular format would work just as well.

The problem for me is the both blandness of the added fluff, and the lack of consistency in writing, and the contradictions (for no apparent reason) with other, more authoritative sources.

 

[mike wightman]

The original Spinward Marches was written at a time when Traveller was still very much about the referee making stuff up - no two people's SM would ever be the same as different groups filled in the details for themselves.

As more detail was added - through JTAS articles, adventures, new sourcebooks etc the SM became a much more bland setting IMHO, and certainly lost the feel of the frontier of a decadent Imperium it was originally painted as.

 

[Vargas]

The problem for me is the both blandness of the added fluff, and the lack of consistency in writing, and the contradictions (for no apparent reason) with other, more authoritative sources.

My problem with BtC as well.

 

[rancke]

I agree, keeping with previous canon is good. I didn't notice any real inconsistencies internal to the book, however (love to hear about them).

I brought it along today, so here's a handful:

Indo (p. 40) was settled 120 years ago by generation ships from Nerewhon. They've heard nothing about their home world in the past 120 years. In other words, an non-interdicted world hasn't had a single visitor in 120 years. Not the Zhodani navy, not the Imperial Navy, not the IISS, not corporate trade scouts, not free traders. Huh?!?

Entrope's starport (p. 45) was destroyed ten years ago and it's still only been rebuild to Class II. Huh?

Kardin's population (p. 48) are 40 researchers from the University of Zlodh It is patrolled by Darrian craft who chase off unauthorized visitors. And it's classed as an independent world with it's own government. Huh?

Over 90% of Emape's population are employed by the starport (p. 50). That's over 460,000 people working at a service function. Huh? [Can you imagine the amount of through trade that would require?]

A detachment of marines assigned to the starport represents the only law in the system. Outside the compound, mob law rules (said mob being the 50,000 people who don't work at the starport). So when listing control rating, one naturally lists what the 10% outside the starport has, not what the 90% inside the starport has. Huh?

Imperial scouts began exploring the Marches during the 1st Century, yet Andor and Candory (p. 52) wasn't discovered until 802. Huh?[*]

[*] Yes, this is a legacy problem. It's still a discrepancy.

Mirriam is classified Amber because of hazardous tides. Huh? [Hazardous tides are extremely localized while Amber hazards are supposed to be reasonably ubiquitous. How many visitors to Mirriam will even get on a boat, let alone one that goes near a hazardous tide?]

I know of two places where BtC disagrees with previous canon (don't remember them off hand, but they weren't anywhere major).

There are scores of places where BtC disagrees with previous canon.

The 'write at least a paragraph on each planet' idea obviously didn't work so well. But they learned and did better in RoF. And it's still better than the soulless Supplement 3 (the most I've got, plus some adventures).

True, but you're comparing a 1st Generation product with a 3rd or 4th Generation product with a vastly different word count. Do you also think BtC was better than The Traveller Adventure?

But I liked the writeups for the most part, and I like the 'new history' given-except for the Sword Worlds/Border Worlds, it doesn't feel right. I still need to get GT:Swords Worlds though.

Oh, you absolutely should get Sword Worlds. I heartily recommend it (Though it does have a few boo-boos of its own, sad to say).


Hans

 

[Rindis]

Entrope's starport (p. 45) was destroyed ten years ago and it's still only been rebuild to Class II. Huh?

That one I do remember. The implication seemed to me that they were trying to stick with a perceived difficulty to getting a change in starport rating in different times (at least from 1100 to 1115...).

Though that one does bring up some other questions. The definition is just given in abilities, but doesn't say anything about capacity. How do you define a starport that has class A facilities but couldn't really service more than a couple ships at that level at a time? Does it matter if that's as many ships it's likely to see at a time?

[Skipping the rest, no book with me, and don't recall them offhand.]

True, but you're comparing a 1st Generation product with a 3rd or 4th Generation product with a vastly different word count. Do you also think BtC was better than The Traveller Adventure?

Even as a 1st Generation product, I never saw that much appeal. Even with paper and pencil I can come up with enough raw worlds to be getting on with all too easily. I want background.

Luckily, I do have a copy of The Traveller Adventure. The background section is great (the adventure is good, but not so germane here...) and well appreciated. I'd liked to have seen the history of the settlement of the Marches reappear in BtC.

I'll admit that most of the victory with BtC for me is just that a guide to a sector was published. (At the time it came out, I didn't know Spinward Marches Campaign existed, and I still don't know what it was like as a physical product.) I had figured that the author had complied notes from most of the adventures and such, but it sounds like that didn't really happen.

Oh, you absolutely should get Sword Worlds. I heartily recommend it (Though it does have a few boo-boos of its own, sad to say).

If ever there is a RPG product without a boo-boo, the world will end.