Emape

[Vladika]

In his infinite wisdom (or lack thereof ) his Imperial Majesty has seen fit to bestow upon me the Barony of Emape.

As such I wish to "flesh it out".

Other than the limited info on the Traveller Wiki and Travellermap.com, does anyone have info or ideas?

http://wiki.travellerrpg.com/Emape_(world)

http://travellermap.com/world?sector=Spin&hex=0133

3 Gas Giants — 0 Planetoid Belts — 2 Other Worlds (How was this derived?) Is Emape a gas giant moon or planet? What does the Extended System Profile look like?

Nobility: Knight Baronet Baron (I guess that makes me officially the top dog of a lawless world)

Ideally I'd like canon references and the ability to get whatever comes of this to become canon. For my purposes I'd like to use the Classic Era (1115) B564500-B stats.

Thanks in advance for any helpful ideas.

 

[rancke]

I never got around to elaborating on it, but I once decided that IMTU Emape resembled Alaspin from Alan Dean Foster's Humanx Commonwealth with the ancient (not Ancient) treasure-filled temples and the feuding archeologists and treasure-hunters. Huge adventuring potential, but since the only campaign I ever ran in Five Sisters was one where the PCs were members of the IN, I never got to use it.


Hans

 

[CosmicGamer]

Found nothing in the Mongoose Spinward Marches beyond what you know.

The little snippets I found in the Mongoose 3I Sector Fleet Pub

The bases at Emape and Raweh are frequently used as staging points for missions out to Spinward

there are Scout Service bases at 875-496, Karin, Mirriam, Emape and Gohature. Some are the usual communications-support installations, such as Karin. Others, such as Emape, are mainly tasked with supporting exploration missions beyond Imperial space.

Patrol Flotilla Emape
2 Escort Destroyer
2 Escort

 

[Vladika]

And then Emape goes from a M0V Star to K0V...

http://wiki.travellerrpg.com/Spinward_Marches_Sector/climate

WHY?

 

[Fovean]

And then Emape goes from a M0V Star to K0V...

http://wiki.travellerrpg.com/Spinward_Marches_Sector/climate

WHY?

Under an M0V star it would likely be tide-locked and thus likely less able to hold Atmo 6 (ie, standard pressure and atmo mix over the entire planetary sphere). With a K0V star it stands a better chance of not being tide-locked and thus able to satisfy the the physical UWP.

Not that I know anything in particular, just spit-balling. But I think the big SM retcon of stellar data is meant to reduce the number of worlds that don't fit in with our new understandings of system and planet formation, without breaking canon completely. Seems Emape is a world being ret-conned to be more in line with current theory/data.

That being said, nothing wrong with a tide-locked world as an adventuring environment, especially with LL 0

 

[rancke]

That being said, nothing wrong with a tide-locked world as an adventuring environment, especially with LL 0

Nothing wrong with a handful of tide-locked worlds, but I much prefer that most of my worlds with breathable air have some rotation and being a bit more familiar to me and my players than tide-locked worlds. Sheer prejudice, I know, but that's how I feel.


Hans

 

[Vladika]

K0V isn't such a huge deal but reducing an Ag planet to temps of -5 to -20C? It stops making sense. I ran some numbers through various programs of stellar "experts" and, using Traveller canon data and current scientific theory, came up with a viable, habitable, non tide-locked planet, stellar orbit almost exactly 180 Earth days and temps around 84 degrees F. That was with an M0V star and "setting" the 180 days at 180 because it made me happy.

By the way Hans, thanks for the info. I like it and it makes sense.

Also to Cosmicgamer, thanks for the research. It was helpful.

 

[rancke]

K0V isn't such a huge deal but reducing an Ag planet to temps of -5 to -20C? It stops making sense.

Worlds with the Ag trade classification are not necessarily agricultural planets in the sense that they concentrate on producing food any more than worlds with the In trade classification are necessarily any more industrialized than other worlds with reasonable population. They just have certain trade modifiers, that's all.

It could be argued that if Emape was ideal for food production, its population would probably be a lot bigger.

That said, I don't see why you can't change Emape's orbital distance a bit and shift the temperature to something more congenial.

Or come up with some environmental domes that function as hothouses. The tech level is 11, after all.


Hans

 

[aramis]

An Ag world at -5C could be doing aquaculture in the oceans - many ocean plants are tolerant of salt.

Some lichens can even grow in those temps (albeit VERY slowly).

Plus, eccentricity can make the "summer" warmer (defining summer by temperature increase rather than axial tilt), while also making the winter proportionally both colder and longer.

 

[Carlobrand]

A couple of thoughts:

First, does it necessarily have to be tidally locked if close? Aren't there harmonic periods that can occur? Mercury for example rotates three times for every two orbits about the Sun. In the case of that -5 average temperature, that could mean a comfortable "day" the length of a growing season, followed by a truly frigid months-long winter "night".

Second, what if you give it a very large moon, almost a binary planet arrangement? Imagine the two worlds tide-locked to each other, like two dancers holding hands and facing each other as they both spun around a common centerpoint. Now, again, you have a world with a very long "day" that might be long enough to serve the growing season of the local agricrops, followed by a very long and bitter "night". If the secondary were smaller and barren, it wouldn't be noticed in the UPP any more than the fact that Regina orbits a gas giant gets noticed.

Third, Earth's average temperature of 15C allows for a variation of up to +25 degrees or more at the equator. Emape could have an average temperature of -5 and still have a relatively comfortable equatorial zone. Depending on how the land and water clusters, there still could be quite a lot of arable land under temperate climes, especially with only a few million mouths to feed. It'd just have very big ice caps, a la ice-age Earth.

 

[Drakon]

A couple of thoughts:

First, does it necessarily have to be tidally locked if close? Aren't there harmonic periods that can occur? Mercury for example rotates three times for every two orbits about the Sun. In the case of that -5 average temperature, that could mean a comfortable "day" the length of a growing season, followed by a truly frigid months-long winter "night".

If I recall, one reason for the harmonic is the high eccentricity of Mercury's orbit. That could work. I am not sure if it is by the book, but it should be workable.

Second, what if you give it a very large moon, almost a binary planet arrangement? Imagine the two worlds tide-locked to each other, like two dancers holding hands and facing each other as they both spun around a common centerpoint. Now, again, you have a world with a very long "day" that might be long enough to serve the growing season of the local agricrops, followed by a very long and bitter "night". If the secondary were smaller and barren, it wouldn't be noticed in the UPP any more than the fact that Regina orbits a gas giant gets noticed.

You have 3 gas giants. If one of them were in the same orbit, your mainworld could be orbiting one of your gas giants. Works for Lemish.

Third, Earth's average temperature of 15C allows for a variation of up to +25 degrees or more at the equator. Emape could have an average temperature of -5 and still have a relatively comfortable equatorial zone. Depending on how the land and water clusters, there still could be quite a lot of arable land under temperate climes, especially with only a few million mouths to feed. It'd just have very big ice caps, a la ice-age Earth.

And who wants to live north on the ice.

One thing that has really been a surprise to me is just how big and varied a single planet is. It is a huge canvas to create, and bring to life.

 

[rancke]

According to BtC, Emape's climate¹ is Normal, i.e. similar to that of Earth.

¹ By which GURPS Traveller doesn't actually mean 'climate' but rather 'overall temperature'.​

Hans

 

[tjoneslo]

And then Emape goes from a M0V Star to K0V...

http://wiki.travellerrpg.com/Spinward_Marches_Sector/climate

WHY?

The Climate file was generated from older/Mongoose Traveller data using the Mongoose Traveller system generation information, so the star went from a K0 V to a M0 V star, the latter being the T5SS data.

Also, if it's not apparent, the climate data was generated by "Allens" a wikia user before the wiki moved here. It is completely not canon, and you can feel free to completely ignore it. (or use it as you see fit).

 

[Vladika]

The Climate file was generated from older/Mongoose Traveller data using the Mongoose Traveller system generation information, so the star went from a K0 V to a M0 V star, the latter being the T5SS data.

Also, if it's not apparent, the climate data was generated by "Allens" a wikia user before the wiki moved here. It is completely not canon, and you can feel free to completely ignore it. (or use it as you see fit).

Thanks! So it was originally a K0V not a M0V?

How can I establish Emape and get it accepted as canon? (If that is even possible.)

There is a lot of work being put into Lemish these days and the idea struck me that if the CotI "Noble" heading a world seriously worked it up we could have some nice background.

 

[Drakon]

How can I establish Emape and get it accepted as canon? (If that is even possible.)

Seconded. I too want to know the answer to this question. Someone and I cannot remember who off the top of my head, did a really great writeup in a Megatraveller format. I got a ways to go before my stuff looks that good, or detailed, but I am working on it.

Edit:It was Ojno the Red's writeup of the Rech system, found here https://app.box.com/shared/sj7g146tfu

There is a lot of work being put into Lemish these days and the idea struck me that if the CotI "Noble" heading a world seriously worked it up we could have some nice background.

Yeah but remember the fella working on Lemish is a bit of a lunatic with no life. :devil:

 

[tjoneslo]

Thanks! So it was originally a K0V not a M0V?

How can I establish Emape and get it accepted as canon? (If that is even possible.)

There is a lot of work being put into Lemish these days and the idea struck me that if the CotI "Noble" heading a world seriously worked it up we could have some nice background.

The first part of that would be to complete the write up and make it available to all who ask. Publish the information through one of the established Traveller publishers, in one of the Traveller Magazines (JTASOnline or Freelance Traveller), as a book through your own imprint, or on the web (e.g. in the Traveller wiki). The official way to make this kind of think canon is option 1. It would be interesting to see if that could be expanded (at least a little bit).

For doing things like changing the M0 V back to a K0 V star (and other similar changes) requires updating the canon information. In this case, put a note in the T5SS thread on this board.

 

[rancke]

The first part of that would be to complete the write up and make it available to all who ask. Publish the information through one of the established Traveller publishers, in one of the Traveller Magazines (JTASOnline or Freelance Traveller), as a book through your own imprint, or on the web (e.g. in the Traveller wiki). The official way to make this kind of think canon is option 1. It would be interesting to see if that could be expanded (at least a little bit).

JTAS Online is not canon, alas, as I know from personal experience, having had a world writeup (plus a good deal of unpublished work based on that writeup) overwritten by an editor who didn't like it. I assume that the same applies to Freelance Traveller¹.

¹ Is material on Freelance Traveller even useable without express permission by the authors? One good thing about JTAS Online stuff is that you're free to use it as background material. ​

Hans

 

[tjoneslo]

JTAS Online is not canon, alas, as I know from personal experience, having had a world writeup (plus a good deal of unpublished work based on that writeup) overwritten by an editor who didn't like it. I assume that the same applies to Freelance Traveller¹.

¹ Is material on Freelance Traveller even useable without express permission by the authors? One good thing about JTAS Online stuff is that you're free to use it as background material. ​

The point I was trying to make was that the first step for getting a piece of Traveller material into canon requires getting it out of your head and onto paper (or at least electrons) and in front of a set of Traveller fans. Or at least one of the editors of the Traveller publishers. And if you're not used to that process, practice makes perfect.