CT Striker Book 1 Organization of Units

[snrdg082102]

Howdy all,

I'm trying to understand how to create a vehicle squad using Rule 6.B.3 on page 9 of Striker Book 1. I am having a problem with how the squad leader works in a vehicle unit and what the two sentences below are saying.

I think that the squad leader is automatically a vehicle commander and is not an addition to the unit personnel like an infantry or weapons squad.

In an infantry or weapons squad the squad leader can command one of the fire teams or weapons in addition to running the entire squad or run the entire team.

An infantry fire team is normally based on four men. In a 2 fire team squad with the squad leader commanding one of the fire team the squad has a strength of eight. If the squad leader is running just the squad then the unit strength is nine.

The size of a weapons crew/team depends on the number of personnel needed to handle the crew served weapon. A weapons crew/team uses a machine requiring two men to operate are formed into three squads with the squad leader running one of the machine guns. The squad would have a strength of 6 men. Not having the squad leader manning a machine gun the squad would have a strength of 7.

Here are the sentences that have me confused when dealing with a vehicle squad.

1. "A vehicle or weapon crew with two or three teams is automatically a squad."

2. "In a vehicle unit, each vehicle is a squad, even if it has only a crew of four or fewer."

What does two or three teams mean in sentence one considering sentence two indicates that a single vehicle is a squad?

Can someone please translate the rules?

 

[aramis]

crew of vehicle:
squad is whole crew of vehicle.
Number of "teams" is Crew/4, rounded up. Organize so all teams have 3 or 4 men. When/if the crew dismounts or gets hit, you will have them in those stands.
Commander of vehicle is squad commander. Section commanders and platoon commanders usually are also vehicle commanders, and not supernumerary.

Crew of crew served weapons:
Weapon of crew 4 or less: crew and weapon are one team; even if a single man, the crew is a team.
Weapon of crew 5+: crew and weapon are a squad. Organize teams as for vehicles.

What you are missing is the context - Striker is based strongly in the US system of organizing military units. A squad of armor or arty is one self-mobile piece with its entire crew. A squad of superheavy tanks with crews of 12 men (some hit the drawing board) would be a squad for purposes of the TOE, just the same as a squad of APC's is one APC and it's 2 man stock crew.

Note that, for aviation purposes, 4-6 fighters are a flight (=platoon), with each fighter being a squad-equivalent unit, and a squadron of 18-24 aircraft being a company equivalent.

 

[snrdg082102]

Howdy aramis,

Thanks for the reply and translation. What you wrote makes more sense to my numb gray matter. I've gone on line and checked out the on line Army and Marine manuals to figure out how Mercenary and Striker work which is why my mind is numb.


Thanks again

crew of vehicle:
squad is whole crew of vehicle.
Number of "teams" is Crew/4, rounded up. Organize so all teams have 3 or 4 men. When/if the crew dismounts or gets hit, you will have them in those stands.
Commander of vehicle is squad commander. Section commanders and platoon commanders usually are also vehicle commanders, and not supernumerary.

Crew of crew served weapons:
Weapon of crew 4 or less: crew and weapon are one team; even if a single man, the crew is a team.
Weapon of crew 5+: crew and weapon are a squad. Organize teams as for vehicles.

What you are missing is the context - Striker is based strongly in the US system of organizing military units. A squad of armor or arty is one self-mobile piece with its entire crew. A squad of superheavy tanks with crews of 12 men (some hit the drawing board) would be a squad for purposes of the TOE, just the same as a squad of APC's is one APC and it's 2 man stock crew.

Note that, for aviation purposes, 4-6 fighters are a flight (=platoon), with each fighter being a squad-equivalent unit, and a squadron of 18-24 aircraft being a company equivalent.

 

[aramis]

Tom, be warned...

unit size labels are, in the real world, funky things. It's all messy.

Armor often uses the Cavalry terms... Troop (=Platoon), Squadron (=company), Wing (=Battalion).
Aviation often uses variations on them... Element (=Squad), Flight (=Platoon), Squadron (=company), Group (=battalion), Wing (=regiment) or Air Regiment (=Regiment)

Note that use of Wing was inconsistent, as they were usually ad hoc units... The Col would pick a Major to command two or three companies of the 10 in the Regiment... and send them off.

Rarely, the term Lance was used for a squad of Cavalry - some games picked up on this use, so you'll find it for squad level units in some games. Most notably Battletech, where it's used for armor and battlemech units....

Likewise, not all real world vehicle units were one vehicle per squad - motorcycle units have, at times, been two bikes to a squad; other times, one to a squad. Striker blithely ignores this.

Likewise, the US Army, for practical purposes, has dropped the regiment*; the UK keeps it as a training and identity unit, but fields battalions from multiple regiments into brigades. (* Except in Armor and Cav, where it dropped the Battalion/Wing...)

You can, easily enough, do some fun and funky odd stuff for units in your own game. Battletech's "Clans" use a nifty 5:1 unit system... see the Battletech Wiki. The one thing to remember: the largest unit level historically that was stable was 10:1... and most naturally fall in the 2-5 subunits per leader range.

 

[snrdg082102]

Hello again aramis,

Yep, the unit size labels are a mess, even though NATO has tried to make some sense out of them.

However, I'm trying to stay within the framework set up in Striker Book 1 and to a certain extent Mercenary Book 4.

Going back to my vehicle squad here is my attempt to see if I'm on the right track:

A combat vehicle has a crew of three men. The vehicle is considered a squad and the crew is a team of three men.

2 combat vehicles are considered 2 squads and 2 vehicle teams of 3 men. The two vehicles can be called a section and the senior vehicle commander (VC) is the section leader.

3 to 5 combat vehicles is a platoon. If I have 3 combat vehicles, one vehicle carries the platoon leader, who doubles as the VC, 2 vehicle squads, and 1 squad of 9 men.


Tom R

Tom, be warned...

unit size labels are, in the real world, funky things. It's all messy.

Armor often uses the Cavalry terms... Troop (=Platoon), Squadron (=company), Wing (=Battalion).
Aviation often uses variations on them... Element (=Squad), Flight (=Platoon), Squadron (=company), Group (=battalion), Wing (=regiment) or Air Regiment (=Regiment)

Note that use of Wing was inconsistent, as they were usually ad hoc units... The Col would pick a Major to command two or three companies of the 10 in the Regiment... and send them off.

Rarely, the term Lance was used for a squad of Cavalry - some games picked up on this use, so you'll find it for squad level units in some games. Most notably Battletech, where it's used for armor and battlemech units....

Likewise, not all real world vehicle units were one vehicle per squad - motorcycle units have, at times, been two bikes to a squad; other times, one to a squad. Striker blithely ignores this.

Likewise, the US Army, for practical purposes, has dropped the regiment*; the UK keeps it as a training and identity unit, but fields battalions from multiple regiments into brigades. (* Except in Armor and Cav, where it dropped the Battalion/Wing...)

You can, easily enough, do some fun and funky odd stuff for units in your own game. Battletech's "Clans" use a nifty 5:1 unit system... see the Battletech Wiki. The one thing to remember: the largest unit level historically that was stable was 10:1... and most naturally fall in the 2-5 subunits per leader range.

 

[Icosahedron]

Here are the sentences that have me confused when dealing with a vehicle squad.

1. "A vehicle or weapon crew with two or three teams is automatically a squad."

2. "In a vehicle unit, each vehicle is a squad, even if it has only a crew of four or fewer."

What does two or three teams mean in sentence one considering sentence two indicates that a single vehicle is a squad?

Can someone please translate the rules?

Punctuation correction:
A vehicle, or a weapon crew with two or three teams, is automatically a squad.

ie a vehicle is a squad regardless of crew number, and a weapon crew of more than one team is a squad.

Does that help?

 

[Timmy]

Further to the post above from Aramis. I think you will find that the lance is used for the cavalry equivalent of a platoon. Basically, a rider and his horse, or a vehicle and its crew, are a squad, or section (depending on whose army you are in), unto themselves. This leads to cavalry squadrons with manpower like infantry platoons occupying the same level in military organizations as infantry companies. In my experience this also holds true for signals units, where the company level unit is the squadron, with manning like a large platoon.

 

[aramis]

Further to the post above from Aramis. I think you will find that the lance is used for the cavalry equivalent of a platoon. Basically, a rider and his horse, or a vehicle and its crew, are a squad, or section (depending on whose army you are in), unto themselves. This leads to cavalry squadrons with manpower like infantry platoons occupying the same level in military organizations as infantry companies. In my experience this also holds true for signals units, where the company level unit is the squadron, with manning like a large platoon.

Note also that air units will often have combatant totals similar to armor, and total staffing comparable to infantry... Ideally, they have about the same "total firepower" - but in practice? Assessments of that vary. Widely.

As for Lance, yeah, BT uses it for the Platoon; I spaced on that. But I've also seen it used for the medieval Knight with sergeants.

 

[snrdg082102]

Morning Icosahedron,

Punctuation correction:
A vehicle, or a weapon crew with two or three teams, is automatically a squad.

ie a vehicle is a squad regardless of crew number, and a weapon crew of more than one team is a squad.

Does that help?

There is a high probability that the missing punctuation is the fault of the typist, me ;-), and thank you for the corrections. under the breath: Must be an English major;-)

The answer is yes your reply does provide more clarification. The weapons crew configuration was not the issue, but having outside clarification is always good.

I appreciate the help.

 

[snrdg082102]

Hello Timmy and aramis,

Thank both of you for replying to my plea for help.

Mercenary Book 4, in my estimation, is for developing infantry units and Striker Book 1 gives additional details on crew-served weapons and vehicles. However, both do not give any in depth detail, which prompted by digging for more information on line and at the library. With my digging my brain began to hurt and I started the thread to help me sort out my issues. The result is both helping me and providing more details.