Costs and independent ship crews

[Spartan159]

I'm looking at Costs, on page 696 of T5.09. When compared to everything else, why are independent starship crews paid like they are? It seems to me there is an imbalance there. Wages, Salaries, and Costs of Living seem in line.

I do not buy a Gunner being paid the same as an Entertainer (good) Fame 17+ or a Corporation Captain. A Steward making 3/4ths of what an Entertainer (spectacular) Fame 17+ while a corporation Steward Officer is probably lucky to pull 600 a month? If anything independents would pay less than corporations.

Does anyone have any input on this?

 

[Condottiere]

Treat them like guidelines.

You could have security, stewards and other personnel train as gunners, with an additional bump in salary.

Though unlike Lynn Min May, gunners may actually proof more useful when push comes to shove.

 

[Timerover51]

I'm looking at Costs, on page 696 of T5.09. When compared to everything else, why are independent starship crews paid like they are? It seems to me there is an imbalance there. Wages, Salaries, and Costs of Living seem in line.

I do not buy a Gunner being paid the same as an Entertainer (good) Fame 17+ or a Corporation Captain. A Steward making 3/4ths of what an Entertainer (spectacular) Fame 17+ while a corporation Steward Officer is probably lucky to pull 600 a month? If anything independents would pay less than corporations.

Does anyone have any input on this?

My recommendation is either go with what seems right to you, and ignore what page 698 has to say, or even up the pay for occupations to bring it in line with the independent ship crew, whatever that is supposed to be. More than a few of those numbers are a tad ridiculous. As for the Cost of Living Numbers, I would rather not think about what housing for 2 Credits a Day is like. Most of those number are a bit strange as well. Calling someone Rich who is making 6 times the annual salary of someone defined as and clearly Poor is really strange.

A Steward getting paid more than a Medic is also a bit odd, considering that the Medic is going to have a lot more schooling than the Steward, who may easily have learned the skill by on-the-job training.

 

[kilemall]

Gunner pay should be situational and market-driven. A fellow with Gunnery-0 on a milk run in the core worlds hired to fulfill Mail contracts should be much cheaper then a Gunnery-3 on the edge with all the talent being snatched up during a pirate streak or a war.

 

[ShawnDriscoll]

Does it make sense for an NFL player to get paid as much as he does compared to a Captain of a US Navy submarine with nuke codes?

 

[Ulsyus]

A Steward getting paid more than a Medic is also a bit odd, considering that the Medic is going to have a lot more schooling than the Steward, who may easily have learned the skill by on-the-job training.

That could be based on the effect they're supposed to achieve: a really good steward who generates custom by providing a great service could be in for a bonus. You're right though - earning more than a medic is a bit strange, though what's the difference between a medic, a paramedic and a qualified nurse? Or are they all just varying levels of Medic skill?

The tips section seems a bit strange: aren't they meant to make up the difference between what an employer pays and the legal minimum wage? If that was the case a Steward should be paid less, the amount depending on the employer. (tips are a weird concept for a lot of people these days though)

Does it make sense for an NFL player to get paid as much as he does compared to a Captain of a US Navy submarine with nuke codes?

The boat captain is being paid what the state has decided on, whereas the NFL player is paid based on the return he provides to the club in terms of the revenue they can make off him, but you knew that. It just comes down to how they're valued and the return they provide to the employer. But you knew that...

 

[Condottiere]

You can always automate the weapon systems.

 

[kilemall]

I always figured Medic-1 is licensed nurse/practitioner, 2 is registered nurse/paramedic, 3 is doctor (and S4 way back when said Medic-3 and Dex 8+ was a surgeon).

 

[Timerover51]

Does it make sense for an NFL player to get paid as much as he does compared to a Captain of a US Navy submarine with nuke codes?

How about we NOT discuss NFL salaries compared to the military. There is no response that I can make that would not be political in nature.

 

[aramis]

Gunner pay should be situational and market-driven. A fellow with Gunnery-0 on a milk run in the core worlds hired to fulfill Mail contracts should be much cheaper then a Gunnery-3 on the edge with all the talent being snatched up during a pirate streak or a war.

Canonically, to qualify, you need gunner 1. And, rules canon, higher skill is worth more.

Position	Minimum Skill Level	Monthly Salary
Pilot	Pilot-I	Cr6,000
Navigator	Navigator-I	Cr5,000
Engineer	Engineer-I	Cr4.000
Steward	Steward-0	Cr3,000
Medic	Medic-I	Cr2,000
Gunner	Gunner-I	Cr1.000

Crew members who have skill levels greater than that shown are generally paid an additional 10% per skill level greater than 1.

Similar is on Bk2-77 p 6

 

[kilemall]

I'm aware of the LBB2 rule. Hardly remunerative enough for what a skill-4 of anything could do.

A Medic-4 is likely to bring you back from 000. A Steward-4 probably brings SOC C+ charters just to experience what real service is.

And I always did find that Medic/Steward rate difference odd.

 

[Timerover51]

I am looking at the way the profits were divided on the whaling ships in the late 1800s as an alternative way of paying a Free Trader crew working on shares. Basically, your crew status dictated how big a share of the profits that you got, ranging from 1/215th for a ship's boy to 1/8th to 1/15th for the ship's captain. I will probably not use those exact proportions, but it does allow for the easier addition of additional crew, as apprentices learning via on-the-job training. If the ship is profitable, the crew gets a bigger payout.

 

[Condottiere]

Most crews nowadays want to be treated like professionals and paid decent wages, or you recruit them from some third world backwater.

Communes are a distinct possibility.

 

[Ulsyus]

Communes are a distinct possibility.

Merchant vessels in C.J. Cherry's Alliance Space were family affairs, with generations living on the vessels and serving as crew, company board. I don't recall how she dealt with the problem of overpopulation on a vessel. Does anyone else?

 

[JFGarber]

It's been a very long time since I read those, but if I recall correctly, family planning is quite aggressively practiced among the merchant families. And in Merchanter's Luck, it's implied that the very largest and wealthiest families split off and start a second vessel.

 

[Timerover51]

Merchant vessels in C.J. Cherry's Alliance Space were family affairs, with generations living on the vessels and serving as crew, company board. I don't recall how she dealt with the problem of overpopulation on a vessel. Does anyone else?

Heinlein's Citizen of the Galaxy, written in the 1950s, had the same premise. Inbreeding was avoided by ship transfers at major yearly ship get-togethers, and occasionally twinning the ship with additional outside recruits.

Many of the New Bedford whaling ships in the 1840s to 1860s were family affairs. As the crews were all male, the problem of inbreeding did not occur, although a fair number of children of the captain may have been born onboard ship. There was a steady supply of new blood into New Bedford from the Portuguese recruited in the Azores and the Cape Verde Islands making sufficient money to retire to shore.