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Chartering Vessels rather than buying them...

J

jchurchill

SOC-12
I'm a recent returnee to Traveller having dusted off my 1977/1981 copies and the original supplements that I had. [I stopped buying circa 1987 from the best that I can tell]

I'm curious as to whether any of you would be interested in rules and explanations as to an overview of chartering vessels by PC/NPC. My real life employment led me into the good old fashioned world of maritime cargo and vessel chartering for a while.

Is there enough interest in this topic to justify my scribbling a short article for the reborn JTAS on the differences between time charters, voyage charters and demise [bareboat] charters?
 
Hi secretagent, welcome aboard and in from the cold ;)

As it happens one of your fellow citizens here is starting a little e-mail fanzine and I have an article on this very subject in the works for it. Your personal experience would probably be invaluable if you'd care to help or collaborate? Drop me a note off the board if you're interested. Send e-mail to far_trader_mail at yahoo dot ca (substitute the symbols for the "at" and "dot").

If not then I for one would be happy to see your perspective and there's room enough for more than one slant on the idea so go for it is my vote :D

Links to the e-mail fanzine posts:


Click me!


Me too!
 
Great Idea!!!...Me...I'm a Merchant (sometime)..and your artical would be VERY useful!!!!...make it DETAILED!!!!


good thinking!!!

Here have star or two!!!
 
I'll cobble my stuff together and see if it worth forwarding on. I have used Scouts to act as "federal marshalls" in arresting starships that did not pay their bills. The look of horror on the players faces when I did that followed by "can you do that?" was quietly amusing. But as the movie Repo Man teaches us...scumbags who don't pay their bills are still scumbags.

See you in Imperial Admiralty Court.
 
I've wondered about this myself - how about having your PCs go on chartered vessels for a government agency (or whatever else you may want/need), like I intend?
 
Thrash,

I only know the CT books and would be curious to see what GURPS provides. This bit that I am putting together will be more guidelines and some optional rules for more flexible use of charters.
The mention in Book 2 and the brief segmant that I saw in T-20 provide only for a time charter and a very inflexible oone at that.
 
Jame,

The advantage of chartering is of course that players can travel without having to own the starship or having to follow established trade/jump routes. Of course most charters will have trading or travel limits to them. A reputable ship will not charter to go to an amber or red world or into a war zone. Disreputable or hard luck ships on the other hand..........
 
Thrash,

many thanks for the quote from Far Trader. I still call it a bareboat charter as oppsed to bare hull but what the hell.

I'll see if I can post what I have so far here.
 
"Overview of Chartering and Cargo

There are 3 basic types of charter available for characters to use which enable the characters to lease a ship for missions or cargoes or conversely for characters to lease or charter a ship to potential clients.

Voyage Charters
A voyage charter is a lease of the ship for a voyage from point A to Point B for a fixed price. The simplicity of the voyage charter makes it useful in many situations but is essentially the basis for “tramp” shipping in contrast to the “liner” shipping that operates on regularly scheduled runs between set terminals.

Time Charters
A time charter is a lease of the ship for a specified period of time rather than for a particular voyage. The advantage of a time charter is that the charterer may direct the ship from several different points and is not restricted to a voyage from one specified port to another. The time charter gives greater flexibility to the charterer but as with the voyage charter, the owner/master of the ship makes the ultimate decisions as to the operation, course and safety of the vessel.

Demise or Bareboat Charter
A demise charter, also known as a “bareboat charter”, is essentially the lease of the ship to the charterer without a master or any crew. The charter is of the bare boat without more. Legally, it is almost a complete transfer of control and command of the ship from the owner to the charter. The charterer operates the ship and is responsible for all costs and crew for the vessel. Of course, with control and operation, the charterer also assumes liability and costs. The owner retains title to the vessel but little else."

This is an excerpt from a draft that is under submission -- If I get rejected -- highly probably then I will post the mechanics and dice rolls.

All rights reserved 2003 etc etc.. ;)
 
"Charters
"Large merchant lines use charters as a means of making up temporary shortages in shipping capacity (e.g., due to short-term market factors, or while building new ships of their own).
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Actually not really true as any size vessel can be chartered. An S type ship or a 1000ton job. Further individuals owning a ship can charter their ship as well.


three forms:
"Bare-Hull Charter: Provides a ship, but no crew, fuel, or provisions. This is cheaper for the charterer, but also risky -- a party would have to have impeccable references and a flawless business plan. As a result, this arrangement applies mostly to corporate-to-corporate charters.

Bare hull implies just the hull and not anything else...avionics?
 
First point: Secretagent dude, if you get this together in some format, let me know. I am very deeply into this whole 'rules of the stars' and 'imperial commercial shipping code' etc. Your stuff fits right into there. So if it doesn't get 'accepted', at least put it into a text or html and let one of us host it (or several of us) for you.

Second:

Originally posted by secretagent:
Bare hull implies just the hull and not anything else...avionics?
Click to expand...
Probably they are trying to modernize 'bare boat' not to sound like a nautical vessel. Bare ship or bare vessel might have been better terms. A hull still probably implies just that (a hull).

Here's another point:

I've known several guys bumming around the carribean and around North America (in interludes between trips south) who seem to make a living ferrying boats around for absentee owners or returning charters etc. So that's another venue to get PCs involved that you might want to delve into - having the job of returning charters to their owners or next charter point.
 
Originally posted by kaladorn:

Here's another point:

I've known several guys bumming around the carribean and around North America (in interludes between trips south) who seem to make a living ferrying boats around for absentee owners or returning charters etc. So that's another venue to get PCs involved that you might want to delve into - having the job of returning charters to their owners or next charter point.
Click to expand...
Gee how could I have forgotten that part of it
file_28.gif


I semi-seriously looked into that as (career seems too formal, ahh... ) an occupation too many years ago ;)

I hope you won't mind me throwing that idea into my article for Tango Two Zero.
 
Originally posted by kaladorn:


Here's another point:

I've known several guys bumming around the carribean and around North America (in interludes between trips south) who seem to make a living ferrying boats around for absentee owners or returning charters etc. So that's another venue to get PCs involved that you might want to delve into - having the job of returning charters to their owners or next charter point.
Click to expand...
Its not quite the same thing, but this reminded me of an idea I once concidered for a campaign filler (or even an entire campaign). Basically, the PCs were going to be assigned/hired to 'ferry' a new (or reconditioned) starship from the yards to its new owner, possibly followed by a training/shakedown cruise with the new owner's crew. Seemed like an interesting twist on the standard starship-based game. Could even allow for the PCs to have a shot at using several different types of ships over time rather than just the one they started with.
 
posted 14-08-2003 05:42
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quote:
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Originally posted by secretagent:
"Charters
"Large merchant lines use charters as a means of making up temporary shortages in shipping capacity (e.g., due to short-term market factors, or while building new ships of their own).
=================================================
Actually not really true as any size vessel can be chartered. An S type ship or a 1000ton job. Further individuals owning a ship can charter their ship as well.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Sure -- but as a practical matter, in a Traveller universe where shipowners skipping out on their mortgages is a routine hazard of travel (for PC's anyway; Book 2, pp. 5-6), no one is going to provide a bare-boat charter to an entity that doesn't have considerable fixed assets as (effectively) collateral: i.e., larger corporations
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I provide for that as well. Either post a bond or other collateral. Further, I have mechanisms for "arresting" vessels that have not paid charter hire or suppliers of goods.
 
First point: Secretagent dude, if you get this together in some format, let me know. I am very deeply into this whole 'rules of the stars' and 'imperial commercial shipping code' etc. Your stuff fits right into there. So if it doesn't get 'accepted', at least put it into a text or html and let one of us host it (or several of us) for you.
=================================================

I suspect that the draft being published is approximately the same odds as me having that "romantic interlude" with Angelina Jolie that I daydream about during work.

I would be happy to post the whole essay as soon as I know. I'm busy drafting the Imperial Carriage of Goods By Space Act [COGSA]. ;)

Seriously though, e-mail at walloon1@hotmail.com and I will see if I can send you a draft if it does not send my storage limits howling through the roof.


Probably they are trying to modernize 'bare boat' not to sound like a nautical vessel.

I know but screw it. Most of this stuff is adapted from wet navy tradition anyway. Ship's Boat skill? Cutter? Pinnance?


Bare ship or bare vessel might have been better terms. A hull still probably implies just that (a hull).

right. That's the problem


Here's another point:

I've known several guys bumming around the carribean and around North America (in interludes between trips south) who seem to make a living ferrying boats around for absentee owners or returning charters etc. So that's another venue to get PCs involved that you might want to delve into - having the job of returning charters to their owners or next charter point.

good point.
 
Originally posted by thrash:
as a practical matter, in a Traveller universe where shipowners skipping out on their mortgages is a routine hazard of travel (for PC's anyway; Book 2, pp. 5-6), no one is going to provide a bare-boat charter to an entity that doesn't have considerable fixed assets as (effectively) collateral: i.e., larger corporations.
Click to expand...
This, of course, may be different if the ship is an in-system vessel, not capable of jump.

Or if the charter company has a long reach and a fair number of Repo Men.

For the record, I think (don't know, but suspect) 3% per month is pretty stiff given starship lifespans. Thus, I think this is meant to account for the risk.

Though I think you would be better off with credit references, a history of service to the Imperium, a long-term presence in the system (family, etc), and so on. These things all make you look less likely to bog-off with the new vessel.

Plus there may be tech solutions like the "activation key" that needs reloaded every month at the charter agency's office. Don't have that, your nav DB is wiped and your computers don't work. And this might be *real* costly to root out.
 
Originally posted by far-trader:
I hope you won't mind me throwing that idea into my article for Tango Two Zero
Click to expand...
Filleth thy Spaceboots.

I'm working on a decompression calculator spreadsheet that acounts for the size of the hole, the outside pressure, the inside pressure, the size of the space, and how much of the space is consoles, etc. It will calculate the points at which people start becoming uncomfortable and having issues and the point at which hypoxia sets in with a vengeance.

I'm also working on a new corp character (non-starfarer corp employees) system.

And lots of other things ;)

Just not sure how many of them are thorny from an IP perspective, so I've avoided posting most of the content.
 
Mr. Thrash,

On following your links I see that you were in fact the author for the quoted passage from Far Trader?

Accept my apologies for leaping [perhaps jumping would be better] to criticize your effort based on your 200 word excerpt. Judging by the essays and articles on your website I'm sure it is a well thought out and well researched book that adds much to gaming merchants in Traveller.
 
Plus there may be tech solutions like the "activation key" that needs reloaded every month at the charter agency's office. Don't have that, your nav DB is wiped and your computers don't work. And this might be *real* costly to root out.
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Funny how we seem to be on the same page here. ;)
Plus difficult to tamper with transponders that broadcast true name and true owner. hard to be on therun with a stolen ship with that albatross.
 
Just not sure how many of them are thorny from an IP perspective, so I've avoided posting most of the content.
================================================
Such are the beginnings of many a good IP lawsuit.
Having defended 2 or 3 I speak from bitter experience.
 
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