Character Creation Question.

[TWTP]

So other than being a citizen and getting a lucky roll on their skills table how does a character gain Leadership skill?

I don't see it on any of the Character types like Spacer (Navy), Army or Marines
I would have thought that an officer in the military would have an option to pick that up at some point.


I feel like my morale is about to break on this whole character creation thing....

 

[Hesperos]

Leader is available on the Marines battle, peacekeeper, occupation and military charts, Craftsman business, Rogue vocation, Noble general and political and Functionary general.

 

[pendragonman]

Take a look at the promotions tables for the military. Leadership shows up there

It is also all over the Marine skill tables.

 

[TWTP]

Dang it I'm over forty so the Eyes don't work as well as they used to.

that and I have been trying to get a Navy/Nobel character done so I didn't look real close at the marines.. and the whole education thing messed me up a bit.

I can see elements of previous versions in here but when your not sure which page to turn to it definitely gets a bit difficult.

 

[TWTP]

Good Lord there are only two ways for a spacer to get leadership while in the service. the First is is to go to command college after getting promoted to O4 and the second requires promotion to O6 Captain.
Surely the Navy has a better training program than that.

This needs to be errata-ed.
The Army should get this skill more frequently as well.
Originally in CT the Navy did not get Leadership either but the Army did.

 

[Higgipedia]

Characters automatically gain one rank of Leader when they hit:
Spacer-O6
Marine & Soldier-E4/O2

The Marines and Soldiers got this in the Errata.

 

[robject]

Good Lord there are only two ways for a spacer to get leadership while in the service. the First is is to go to command college after getting promoted to O4 and the second requires promotion to O6 Captain.
Surely the Navy has a better training program than that.

This needs to be errata-ed.
The Army should get this skill more frequently as well.
Originally in CT the Navy did not get Leadership either but the Army did.

Page 164 explains the rationale.

Appointed Leaders. Within organizations, some leaders are appointed (for example, military or naval officers). These individuals have rank and position, but they may not necessarily have Leadership skill.

Emergent Leaders. Individuals who have Leader, regardless of their rank or position, are emergent leaders. They are natural leaders with an ability to know what steps to take and what orders to give.

 

[Murdoc]

Page 164 explains the rationale.

Appointed Leaders. Within organizations, some leaders are appointed (for example, military or naval officers). These individuals have rank and position, but they may not necessarily have Leadership skill.

Emergent Leaders. Individuals who have Leader, regardless of their rank or position, are emergent leaders. They are natural leaders with an ability to know what steps to take and what orders to give.

A good example of that is in the movie Aliens, where Lt. Gorman was the highest ranking officer, but with little experience, only book learning. But Ripley was much better able to take charge and deal with a crisis than he was, and she had no military training.

 

[TWTP]

Page 164 explains the rationale.

Appointed Leaders. Within organizations, some leaders are appointed (for example, military or naval officers). These individuals have rank and position, but they may not necessarily have Leadership skill.

Emergent Leaders. Individuals who have Leader, regardless of their rank or position, are emergent leaders. They are natural leaders with an ability to know what steps to take and what orders to give.

This is a standard military/team leadership course statement. I have seen it many times.
still does not mean that the Navy and Army should get very little chance at gaining the leadership skill when the Marines are practically dripping in it by comparison.

Id guess that I have a better chance of having a Citizen character that receives the skill than a Navy or Army character does.

By the way Gorman in Aliens is a poor example, it was his first year in his first term, probably his first 3 or 4 months as an LT in the Colonial Marines, he hadn't even had a chance to roll on the skills table yet before he met his CT Character generation system fate.

 

[Murdoc]

By the way Gorman in Aliens is a poor example, it was his first year in his first term, probably his first 3 or 4 months as an LT in the Colonial Marines, he hadn't even had a chance to roll on the skills table yet before he met his CT Character generation system fate.

But given that he was in charge, he was appointed to the position, one where he has to lead people, in combat situations no less. So I think it's a perfect example of the difference between appointed leaders, and emergent ones. Like I said, Ripley didn't have any combat experience either (save the first movie of course), and no military training. So it doesn't matter whether Gorman had the time to develop the skills or not, he obviously didn't have them, yet was in charge anyway. (Although you'd think that they would teach something about that at the service academy (heck, I remember we had "leadership training" in high school!), but either his training was very poor, or he simply didn't have the personality for it. Or the writers were trying to say that you can't train leadership, it has to come from experience and/or personality.)

 

[TWTP]

But given that he was in charge, he was appointed to the position, one where he has to lead people, in combat situations no less. So I think it's a perfect example of the difference between appointed leaders, and emergent ones. Like I said, Ripley didn't have any combat experience either (save the first movie of course), and no military training. So it doesn't matter whether Gorman had the time to develop the skills or not, he obviously didn't have them, yet was in charge anyway. (Although you'd think that they would teach something about that at the service academy (heck, I remember we had "leadership training" in high school!), but either his training was very poor, or he simply didn't have the personality for it. Or the writers were trying to say that you can't train leadership, it has to come from experience and/or personality.)

But that's not the point of my original post.

I feel that in the T5 character generation sequence Navy and Army personnel should have the ability to gain the leadership skill early on in their first term even for NCO's just like the Marines do. Leadership is just as important a skill as gunnery or piloting.

 

[ekervina]

Just my personal experience, so take it for what it is worth, but...

When I was in the USAF, I worked with officers from every service. One type were solid leaders who I would have followed because they were just the sort of person you follow (emergent). The second type I would have followed because they had the rank, and I had to (appointed).

I found some of each type among AF, Army, and Navy officers. Never met a Marine officer of the second type, though. I worked for several Marine officers, and each of them had distinct leadership styles, but they were all the first type.

Maybe that's just the relatively small sample size of my experience and luck of the draw. Maybe it's because the USMC attracts the sort of person who is already headed toward leadership. Maybe it's because the USMC has figured out how to draw out those emergent qualities. Maybe it is any number of things I haven't even guessed at.

But the idea that some services yield more/better leaders than others matches my personal experience, and doesn't seem unrealistic to me.

I worked much less with the enlisted of the other forces, so I don't really have anything to offer on that front.