Change Proposal: Layout Data Pages...

[maksimsmelchak]

Hi All,

It has been currently proposed to add a new feature to the sector pages: a "layout data" page...

A "layout data" page takes T5SS data and arranges it by sector making it easy to check and create an entire subsector at a time.

Here is a link to an already-created "layout data" page for Reaver's Deep Sector: [http://wiki.travellerrpg.com/Reaver's_Deep_Sector/layout_data ]

Many sectors contain some or all of the following:
* This sector has a world list .
* This sector has a trade map.
* This sector has a data file .
* This sector has a climate file.
* This sector has sector data.

This proposal would add one more feature, useful for making updates, corrections, or other edits to sectors and subsectors.
* This sector has a layout data file.

Please weigh in on this proposal with both pros and cons to this idea.

Thank you.

Shalom,
Maksim-Smelchak.

 

[robject]

This would theoretically be a pain to keep in sync with TravellerMap. Assuming there were more than one line of data changed per day. And what degree of confidence would there be that these listings are in sync with TravellerMap? (I use TravellerMap as the point of reference, since Joshua populates his data directly from Marc's data).

Unless there were an "include" mechanism that did an in-line query to TravellerMap, which would respond with exactly the format you need. Actually TravellerMap does return sector data; it's just a matter of putting it in

 tags (or whatever) for monospace fonting.

I.E. it would be best if it were maintenance-free.


Unless I'm missing something.  Does the data layout format sync up with TravellerMap?

 

[maksimsmelchak]

This would theoretically be a pain to keep in sync with TravellerMap. Assuming there were more than one line of data changed per day. And what degree of confidence would there be that these listings are in sync with TravellerMap? (I use TravellerMap as the point of reference, since Joshua populates his data directly from Marc's data).

Unless there were an "include" mechanism that did an in-line query to TravellerMap, which would respond with exactly the format you need. Actually TravellerMap does return sector data; it's just a matter of putting it in

 tags (or whatever) for monospace fonting.

I.E. it would be best if it were maintenance-free.

Unless I'm missing something.  Does the data layout format sync up with TravellerMap?[/QUOTE]

Rob,

Unless the entire UWP planet profiles for each world were automated, this could not be done at this time, to my knowledge. It will have to be manually checked and done when major updates occur. 

So, to directly answer your question, no, it does not directly sync with Traveller Map data and it is not automated in any way at this time. 

It would be possible to do that in the future, but the main goal of this addition is to make the "layout data" available to other users since they are technically "hidden files" at this point. 

And, more to the point, everything connected with the Wiki or even the Traveller Map takes considerable effort. They are also very capable tools that require significant effort to take maximal advantage of. This has been a major catch with every body of "library data" or fan-generated materials out there on the Internet... All of it has to be updated as it evolves. Little of it is yet automated.

I am currently going through about two sectors a month and, at that rate, it is possible to check most of charted space within a two-year cycle. It would go quicker as a shared task.

It would be great if the community of users could be leveraged to spread these tasks over greater numbers, but we work with the volunteers we have.

Thanks.

Shalom,
Maksim-Smelchak.

 

[maksimsmelchak]

Unless I'm missing something. Does the data layout format sync up with TravellerMap?

*** Is there a way to make or access a change log within Traveller Map? ***

Shalom,
Maksim-Smelchak.

 

[inexorabletash]

It's a git repository, so yes:

https://github.com/inexorabletash/travellermap/commits/master

Technically the site and repo could get out of sync, since I push to the live site manually. But if you just focus on the source repo as a canonical source that's not an issue. But you would need to be careful since I could e.g. rename a sector file, or switch a sector from SEC to TAB, etc

 

[tjoneslo]

I will re-iterate the point I've tried to make several times in the wiki. The process of manually updating the wiki articles from changes in TravellerMap (and by extension the T5 Second Survey files) is an exercise in frustration.

There are tools that can automatically determine the changes in the Traveller Map data (git diffs is one), and upload them into the Wiki (PyWikiBot). The latter requires some amount of effort to format the articles consistently to allow automated updates to the text files/templates used in the article(s).

If you are going to spend your time manually creating or updating articles it would be best spent working on areas that are stable and have real articles already (Solomani Rim, Spinward Marches) rather than areas undergoing review and change (e.g. Gateway, Crucis Margin).

If you really want to spend the time creating articles containing nothing but data from TravellerMap, but rewritten, we should spend more time building templates and formatting the articles to allow the automated updating to take place

 

[maksimsmelchak]

If you are going to spend your time manually creating or updating articles it would be best spent working on areas that are stable and have real articles already (Solomani Rim, Spinward Marches) rather than areas undergoing review and change (e.g. Gateway, Crucis Margin).

If you really want to spend the time creating articles containing nothing but data from TravellerMap, but rewritten, we should spend more time building templates and formatting the articles to allow the automated updating to take place.

I would like to do both. I am currently working manually. But, I'd like to see those efforts eventually be gradually phased over to automated methods.

I will reiterate what I've previously said as well.

I've already spent time building standardized templates and formatting the articles to allow that automated updating to take place.

I would like us, and others who are interested, to develop a standardized template and formatting style that will allow PyRoute, bots, and other forms of automation to create the Traveller universe in quantity and quality.

I agree with your idea that the areas that are stable and have real articles already (Solomani Rim, Spinward Marches) should be priority and I'm mixing those updates in with things that interest me more. I have gradually been accomplishing many of the goals you have shared with me.

Always good to hear your positions on matters, Thomas. I've always respected you and been in admiration for your hard work and dedication over the years.

I have been trying to implement all of your suggestions, advice, and direction for me, balanced with things I am doing to learn Wiki language, programming, bots, and others things I need to learn to be a better contributor to the community.

Thank you again.

Shalom,
Maksim-Smelchak.

 

[maksimsmelchak]

If you really want to spend the time creating articles containing nothing but data from TravellerMap, but rewritten, we should spend more time building templates and formatting the articles to allow the automated updating to take place.

*** Where and how do you propose starting the process of building templates, establishing re-formatting goals, getting community approval, buy-in, and other needed goals so we and others can make this happen? Should it be here at CotI? ***

Shalom,
Maksim-Smelchak.

 

[maksimsmelchak]

As a side note, Thomas Jones-Low recently updated Traveller Wiki Sector pages to have Sector Data pages, which were the point of this proposal.

This proposal is now a fully operational battle...

Thanks, Thomas!

Shalom,
Maksim-Smelchak.

 

[Meteoric Assault]

I just wanted to say I am grateful for the wiki...

BVW