Bridge Comparisons - AHL vs Element

[pzmcgwire]

The Azhanti High Lightning (AHL) class cruiser is built at TL14 on a 60,000 ton hull and the Element class cruiser is a TL15 75,000 ton ship, depending on pod configuration. Star Trek's Enterprise is up to 190,000 tons, but all three ships have about 400 crew.

In looking at the deckplans of the Bridges, the Element class seems less spacious with poorer ergonomics in a longer, narrower bridge. Is there a reason for the difference between a TL15 bridge and a TL14 bridge, since on the Element, the Command seat can't easily see many of the stations unlike on the AHL or the starship Enterprise.

The below plans are at 15mm scale (1.5m per square) for the Enterprise and AHL and my attempt to scale the Element main bridge to 15mm. Not exactly sure what all the stuff is on the Element deck plan but there seem some hardware columns in the way. Those can't all be tactical display tables.

(From Left to Right) Bridges from Star Trek's Enterprise, Azhanti High Lightning, Element (sorry for the poor resolution for the Element but 1:300 scale doesn't expand easily)

 

[Condottiere]

In theory, they all have the same sixty tonne bridge.

And, if Airbus built them, they have the same layout.

 

[whartung]

I like how the command chair and bridge orientation of the AHL is off axis like the Enterprise is.

 

[pzmcgwire]

I like how the command chair and bridge orientation of the AHL is off axis like the Enterprise is.

It's good feng shui, which the Element may not have if that center command chair on its main bridge has its back to the main entrance!

 

[AnotherDilbert]

In looking at the deckplans of the Bridges, the Element class seems less spacious with poorer ergonomics in a longer, narrower bridge. Is there a reason for the difference between a TL15 bridge and a TL14 bridge, since on the Element, the Command seat can't easily see many of the stations unlike on the AHL or the starship Enterprise.

There are basically no rules or guidelines for drawing deck plans. As long as the ship, and perhaps the major components, are roughly within tonnage you are golden...

Hence, nothing is implied by the differences between two deck plans.

 

[Badenov]

There are basically no rules or guidelines for drawing deck plans. As long as the ship, and perhaps the major components, are roughly within tonnage you are golden...

Hence, nothing is implied by the differences between two deck plans.

The subtleties of ergonomics and efficient space use are degree-level subjects by themselves and not generally given to freshouts, either, but final design is often the product of teams of architects under a very experienced lead. It's probably out of scope for a bunch of hobbyists who may have a handle on one or two specifics to say much for certain. I would agree that any fan-drawn deck plans are equally valid barring some egregious issue. One of the things I do note is the merger of the functions of the bridge and CIC. This is a common thing in Scifi, where you want the important people and decisions all in one place, making writing/filming simpler. How much of this you want to implement in your game is optional, of course. My personal headcanon is that the gargantuan tonnage requirements for the highest tier computers include space for operators and officers in a CIC-like tactical environment independent of the bridge.

 

[Grav_Moped]

There are basically no rules or guidelines for drawing deck plans. As long as the ship, and perhaps the major components, are roughly within tonnage you are golden...

Hence, nothing is implied by the differences between two deck plans.

The subtleties of ergonomics and efficient space use are degree-level subjects by themselves and not generally given to freshouts, either, but final design is often the product of teams of architects under a very experienced lead. It's probably out of scope for a bunch of hobbyists who may have a handle on one or two specifics to say much for certain. I would agree that any fan-drawn deck plans are equally valid barring some egregious issue.

Indeed, on both sides. The rules say you need X tons and it coss MCr Y. What that looks like when sketched out on the pink squares of graph paper really doesn't matter all that much unless it's severely botched. Working backwards from what's drawn, to what that says about the rules, is not likely to yeild much of use.

 

[whulorigan]

I like how the command chair and bridge orientation of the AHL is off axis like the Enterprise is.

Like the Enterprise, it allows for a good Vidiscreen-shot of Navy bigwigs making a dramatic entrance onto the Bridge without the Conning Officer's head getting in the way and ruining the effect . . .

 

[Grav_Moped]

Like the Enterprise, it allows for a good Vidiscreen-shot of Navy bigwigs making a dramatic entrance onto the Bridge without the Conning Officer's head getting in the way and ruining the effect . . .

i keep getting a chuckle out of the notion that any deck plan shortcomings are because they're actually TV/movie sets, not actual space ships. No restroom? Trailer's over there behind the cockpit set. No laundry? Wardrobe's over there. Not enough staterooms? You aren't going to be sleeping there anyhow. Go home and sleep in your own bed, weirdo....

 

[Badenov]

i keep getting a chuckle out of the notion that any deck plan shortcomings are because they're actually TV/movie sets, not actual space ships. No restroom? Trailer's over there behind the cockpit set. No laundry? Wardrobe's over there. Not enough staterooms? You aren't going to be sleeping there anyhow. Go home and sleep in your own bed, weirdo....

Though that calls into question the plot of Galaxy Quest, where aliens make a real, functioning, spacecraft out of a TV spaceship's technobabble. Not sure why I spoiler'd a 25 year old movie, but anyhow. Of course since it's a movie about a TV show, they can do what they like.

 

[whartung]

Though that calls into question the plot of Galaxy Quest

Best Star Trek movie after ST II:WoK.

The best thing about GQ is that it did not ruin ST at all for me. 007 and Airport movies took a real hit after Austin Powers and Airplane, they can be hard to watch. (FYI, Airport is a REALLY GOOD movie.)

But GQ actually celebrates the show and the fandom and stars. What a great movie.

HEY! Don't open that! It's an alien planet! Is there air? You don't know!

 

[bookwyrm]

Star Trek: 'Boldly going where no one has gone before' & 'Live long and prosper'.

Star Wars: 'May the Force be with you' & 'I have a bad feeling about this'.

Galaxy Quest: 'Never give up, never surrender!'.

 

[Spartan159]

In the can't resist category... "By Grabthar's Hammer, By the sons of Warvan, you shall be avenged!"

Edited for completion

 

[pzmcgwire]

Hence, nothing is implied by the differences between two deck plans.

I was wondering if at TL15 there are tech aids such as implants, virtual reality, or other gizmos that would obviate the need to have a more spacious bridge. The Element cruisier writeups does say that a lot of the combat execution is done in one of the other bridges. Still it looks like crewmen could be taking a nap in one of the corners of the bridge without the CO noticing immediately.

 

[AnotherDilbert]

I was wondering if at TL15 there are tech aids such as implants, virtual reality, or other gizmos that would obviate the need to have a more spacious bridge.

There is no such expectation, as far as I know.

From CT we have the 20 Dt bridge of a low tech trader (Subbie, CT S7, p21):


And the 25 Dt bridge of small hi-tech warship (Kinunir, CT A1, p16):


Or the 20 Dt bridge of a very small hi-tech warship (Gazelle, CT S7, p32):


Basically, anything goes...

The Element cruisier writeups does say that a lot of the combat execution is done in one of the other bridges. Still it looks like crewmen could be taking a nap in one of the corners of the bridge without the CO noticing immediately.

The original AHL and the Element pod cruisers are built with different systems (LBB5 vs MgT2).

The Element class has three bridge components of a total of 200 Dt.
The LBB5 AHL has a 2% bridge system of 1200 Dt.

 

[Badenov]

I was wondering if at TL15 there are tech aids such as implants, virtual reality, or other gizmos that would obviate the need to have a more spacious bridge. The Element cruisier writeups does say that a lot of the combat execution is done in one of the other bridges. Still it looks like crewmen could be taking a nap in one of the corners of the bridge without the CO noticing immediately.

At TL15, you get the Model 9 computer. For an additional 30MCr and 2T over the TL14 best comp (Model 8, very creative naming scheme), you get +1 to hit and -1 to be hit due do <insert technobabble>. It's not the most consistent game mechanic, given how granular many other rules are, but that's what it is and how it works by RAW. None of these change the need for bridge size, because that's based solely on ship tonnage. Perhaps it accounts for all the remote damage control functoinality and so you can't afford to do without? The usual tradeoff for shipboard control equipment is to include more features as you miniaturize, so you retain the same physical size. This tracks well with getting more advanced capabilities at higher TLs without a specific change in space. Now Mongoose (1, at least) offered bridge mods that would improve your init due to ergonomics, but it wouldn't reduce your bridge size.