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arcologies and urban combat

atpollard

Super Moderator
Peer of the Realm
There has been some recent discussions on arcologies and urban combat. While I know little about military equipment and doctrine, I know a great deal about urban environments. I offer this discussion to anyone interested:

Whether a suburb, a major metropolitan center or a future Arcology, all urban environments have certain basic infrastructure needs.

1. WATER needs to be purified and distributed in pipes under pressure and with pumps. As a general rule, the larger the population the bigger the pumps.

2. SEWAGE needs to be removed which requires more pipes and pumps.

3. POWER needs to be provided to every room in every building, usually via electric wires (although gas pipes could serve in some applications). Electric power requires generation equipment and a variety of transformers to massage the power to satisfy the needs of different users (a bedroom in a single family residence has very different power needs than a factory that refines aluminum ore.

4. COMMUNICATION needs more cables and wires. Some wires (like fiber optics) require special protection. Behind the communications scene are many large computers.

5. TRANSPORTATION requires an infrastructure to move people from home to work to shopping to other locations. The stores need to be able to receive regular shipments of bulk supplies (the entire contents of a typical grocery store is replaced every 3 days on average – so they need to receive 1/3 of their entire stock every day).

6. RESIDENCES require small shipments of supplies at frequent intervals plus the ability to deliver large items and infrequent intervals (like furniture).

7. SOLID WASTE requires an infrastructure to collect, remove and process all of the garbage.

8. EMERGENCY SERVICES require access to every area so Fire Fighter can control a fire, an Ambulance can transport an accident victim to a medical facility and police can fight crime.

All of this infrastructure requires maintenance, upgrades and replacement – that demands access. The unavoidable result of these basic needs is that the vast majority of any and every urban area will be within a short distance of a ‘road’ able to accommodate large vehicles (the typical design minimums are 7+ meters of paved vehicular use area designed to accommodate the passage of a roughly 2.5 m x 15 m vehicle). Virtually every room will be within 30 meters of such a vehicular access space and all critical infrastructure will be immediately adjacent to this access space.

What is an arcology?
It is not a really big apartment building with elevators and long halls. Imagine instead building a small city that is 1 km x 1 km. It has narrow streets and are ‘pedestrian friendly’ but can accommodate emergency vehicles. These streets are lined with buildings of uniform height (probably 3 to 5 stories, but 60+ stories is possible). Now imagine placing a 1 km x 1 km concrete slab over the top of the entire city and building another similar city on top of the slab. Keep alternating between buildings and slabs until the entire structure is as tall as you need (probably 60 stories or less at our current TL ). Maximum height is primarily limited by elevator technology – who wants to be locked in an elevator for 30 minutes while it travels to the top floor. Where modern cities and towns are connected by long horizontal highways, the ‘towns/levels’ in an arcology require a vertical transportation network.

With grav vehicle technology, the outside edges of the arcology could be open, allowing an air raft to fly out of level 4 and re-enter at level 25. In the case of a less friendly environment (like a toxic atmosphere) it might be better to seal the outside wall and create large vertical traffic shafts inside the arcology. Remember that delivery ‘trucks’ and emergency vehicles will require this vertical access, it is not only for private air rafts. At pre-grav TLs, it would probably be more economical to build a horizontal city rather than an arcology (with a dome for weather protection if needed). A large vertical elevator to transport vehicles could be constructed to establish a pre-grav arcology if desired. Several proposals for a ‘vertical train’ have been suggested.

In conclusion, combat in an arcology will be virtually identical to any other urban combat environment.
 
That's strange, I assumed an archology was a domed city or a city in space, such as an L5 colony, that recycles its air and water. The closest thing to what your describing is an indoor shopping mall. Probably the vehicles driving around inside would have to be electric, as you wouldn't want automobile exhaust and carbon monoxide accumulating in the archology.

Another way of looking at an archology in your definition would be as a dungeon. Movement can occur in three dimensions, and knowledge of the corridors and secret passeges would be vital, or you could try blasting holes in the walls at a risk of collapsing the whole structure on top of yourselves. Archologies are of course vulnerable to missiles unless they are built underground.
 
Hi !

There a pretty wiki article about the arcology concept.

In my understanding its a maximum concentrated form of a city with a very sharp destinction between inside and outside and a minimized or at least neutral interaction with its environment.
The actual way it looks like might be completely different.

Regards,

TE
 
spent 6 1/2 years aboard an aircraft carrier. 15 stories high, 1/4 mile long, 5000 guys, more cabling and more piping and more pumps than you could shake a stick at - and it had no access roads. in fact anyone in bulky battledress would have had a hard time getting around in some places on that ship.
 
There is likely to be green space, especially in hostile environments. A way to get sunlight in.

Remember on planets with Tainted, Corrosive, Insidious, Trace, Very thin, Very Dense exotic and no atmosphere you have to grow your food indoors. IN Thin, Dense and even Standard Atmosphere it is also likely that such structures would be built for other reasons. You might also have them on the Ocean floor, or as a Space habitat without a planet.

People like to live comfortably. If you have to spend lots of your time in breathing equipment, of one kind or another, and decontaminating yourself as you enter each building, it is more likely that you won't go outside much. Enclosing a city is the easiest way to do this.

If you use things like Slidewalks, or Turboshafts, you can pretty much eliminate vehicle use within the city. Even in a city like New York, which isn't enclosed, most of the population doesn't drive to and from work or shopping.
 
9. Ventilation and Air Purification. I don't think an arcology can really depend on natural breezes and ventilation to get oxygen in and to vent out carbon dioxide and other gasses which are harmful when allowed to build up which seem to be endemic to human habitation (such as carbon monoxide or even methane). Ventilation is probably very much dependent on #3 and could be thought of as a subset of #2. But if the air purifiers (however they work - it could just be big pumps sucking in outside air on habitable planets) fail, even if you have power, many people (or everyone) will still die. Exotic failures such as changing the fusion-powered air purifier to vent carbon monoxide could even be more deadly.

10. Food Production. When discussing arcologies, especially on otherwise uninhabitable planets, I think you can't just think of food and other consumables just coming from "the outside." Arcologies are often considered to be at least somewhat self-sufficient. They're making food somewhere, even if it's algae wafers as a backup for fresher foods brought in from the outside. In a "siege" situation, striking food production is a very visceral way of making the population reconsider their actions, I think.
 
Originally posted by Space Cadet:
Movement can occur in three dimensions, and knowledge of the corridors and secret passages would be vital, or you could try blasting holes in the walls at a risk of collapsing the whole structure on top of yourselves.
In an enclosed (climate controlled) arcology, the risk of damaging the structure by tearing through walls is almost non existent. The structure is probably a grid of steel beams encased in concrete for strength, light weight and fire resistance (or the 25th century equivalent). Since there is no need to ‘keep out the elements’, interior walls are simple partitions for privacy (like modular office partitions or the gypsum walls inside a house). How hard would it be to tear down a 0.08 m thick wood and gypsum partition without knocking down the 1m x 1m steel columns spaced 9m apart?
 
Originally posted by flykiller:
spent 6 1/2 years aboard an aircraft carrier. 15 stories high, 1/4 mile long, 5000 guys, more cabling and more piping and more pumps than you could shake a stick at - and it had no access roads. in fact anyone in bulky battledress would have had a hard time getting around in some places on that ship.
But would 5000 civilians with their families be willing to live like that? When the reactor needs a 10 year service (or whatever the schedule is) do you evacuate the entire city and tell the people to come back in 6 months when the work is done and the structure restored?

You do raise a good point about the ‘back’ of an arcology. In a modern city, the infrastructure gets buried underground where it is out of sight and mind. In an arcology, there must be a 3 dimensional network of tunnels to deliver the ‘underground’ utilities to every part of the structure. These tunnels would resemble the tight passages on a naval ship. The local utility workers who are familiar with these tunnels have a distinct advantage in arcology urban combat. Imagine the Vietnamese spider tunnels on steroids – they literally do go everywhere.
 
Originally posted by BetterThanLife:
There is likely to be green space, especially in hostile environments. A way to get sunlight in.
Absolutely. I have no way to convey the visions of Paolo Soleri’s arcologies, but freed to grow in 3 dimensions, cities have tremendous room for air and light and gardens. In fact, about 80% of the volume of an arcology could be vast open spaces.
 
Originally posted by BetterThanLife:
If you use things like Slidewalks, or Turboshafts, you can pretty much eliminate vehicle use within the city. Even in a city like New York, which isn't enclosed, most of the population doesn't drive to and from work or shopping.
Arcologies are designed for everything on a level to be within walking distance and ‘subway’ like elevators transport people vertically, so people would not need cars. On the other hand, you do not want paramedics to need to carry an accident victim half a kilometer on their back, transport him on two vertical transports (one local and one express with a transfer stop in between) and then carry him another quarter kilometer to the hospital. A ‘road’ to accommodate emergency vehicles would be nice.

The local supermarket needs 3 tractor trailers of food delivered to restock the shelves. It would be nice if the employees did not need to hand carry it from the rooftop ‘heliport’ to the store. Some system to accommodate delivery trucks would be nice. Even NYC needs roads, so will the arcology.

However, I agree that arcologies could be bad for ‘air raft’ salesmen.
 
Originally posted by epicenter00:
9. Ventilation and Air Purification.
Except for an open arcology (more than 50% large voids – no exterior envelope) air will require a large infrastructure of it’s own. In Very Large modern buildings, they employ multiple air handling units in groups and on multiple floors to divide the structure into overlapping zones. This allows them to shut down one system for maintenance without harming the users (the adjacent units take up the extra load).

Originally posted by epicenter00:
10. Food Production.
The original concepts for arcologies include factories and food production in a vast underground complex as deep as half the building height. Where land is plentiful, like an arcology created because of a very thin atmosphere, it will probably be cheaper to grow food on the surface in greenhouses – perhaps extending for kilometers in every direction around the arcology.
 
Originally posted by TheEngineer:
Hi !

There a pretty wiki article about the arcology concept.

In my understanding its a maximum concentrated form of a city with a very sharp destinction between inside and outside and a minimized or at least neutral interaction with its environment.
The actual way it looks like might be completely different.

Regards,

TE
O'Neill Colonies are not maximumly concentrated then. An Island Three Colony is a cylinder that's 4 miles wide by 20 miles long, while it has living space that could accomodate 20 million people, those 20 million people live in 1 ans 2 story buildins set in the inner surface of a cylinder that rotates to simulate gravity. Most of the interior space is nothing but air and water clouds, the priority of this design was to let in natural sunlight through use of mirrors and giant windows that take up half the total floor space of this colony, one could presumably accomodate 20 million people in an archology that is much smaller than this, but one disadvantage of an archology is the lack of natural sunlight and "outdoor" living space that the Island Three is designed to accomodate. A science fiction example of an Archology would be the "Caves of Steel" on Earth in Issac Asimov's Robot novel. Basically most of humanity lives indoors and are terrified of the outdoors, they dislike robots as well, which is why robots are employed to work outdoors. Each city is a giant building much as was discribed above as an archology. The Cities are linked together by continent spanning tunnels employing moving sidewalks as a means of mass transit. The air outside is quite breathable, but hardly anyone goes outside because they are all a bunch of agoraphobes.

As for me, I'd prefer to live in an O'Neill colony instead of a boxed in "Shopping Mall". At least most shopping malls are designed to let natural sunlight into their indoor spaces, but I'm afraid that a 60 story high archology will not let in much natural sunlight into most places, instead most people would live under artificial illumination, and would hardly know whether it was day or night outside, not my cup of tea exactly.
 
Originally posted by atpollard:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by BetterThanLife:
If you use things like Slidewalks, or Turboshafts, you can pretty much eliminate vehicle use within the city. Even in a city like New York, which isn't enclosed, most of the population doesn't drive to and from work or shopping.
Arcologies are designed for everything on a level to be within walking distance and ‘subway’ like elevators transport people vertically, so people would not need cars. On the other hand, you do not want paramedics to need to carry an accident victim half a kilometer on their back, transport him on two vertical transports (one local and one express with a transfer stop in between) and then carry him another quarter kilometer to the hospital. A ‘road’ to accommodate emergency vehicles would be nice.

The local supermarket needs 3 tractor trailers of food delivered to restock the shelves. It would be nice if the employees did not need to hand carry it from the rooftop ‘heliport’ to the store. Some system to accommodate delivery trucks would be nice. Even NYC needs roads, so will the arcology.

However, I agree that arcologies could be bad for ‘air raft’ salesmen.
</font>[/QUOTE]A conveyor belt can get the goods from the outer surface of the Archology to the stores. Vehicles would most likely be electric and powered from electric power strips on the ceiling much like "bumper cars" at amusement parks, it would probably contain an emergency battery should the power go out, but I believe Outdoor vehicles would not be allowed into the archology. Hospitals, places of work, homes and stores would all be inside the archology, and so people would commute from one part of the archology to another, outside of the archology would be vast parking garages and parking lots where residents keep all their private outdoor vehicles should they decide to do some traveling outside the archology.
 
"The desicion to fight for a city is a decision to destory the city"

The first sentance of a Soviet era urban combat doctrin manual.

That pretty much goes for an arcology, only more so. If there was a significant amount of combat in the structure, it would do a huge amount of damage to the life support infrastructure. It would probably take weeks if not months to get it back into livable condision for the full population.
 
Originally posted by Ranger:
"The desicion to fight for a city is a decision to destory the city"

The first sentance of a Soviet era urban combat doctrin manual.

That pretty much goes for an arcology, only more so. If there was a significant amount of combat in the structure, it would do a huge amount of damage to the life support infrastructure. It would probably take weeks if not months to get it back into livable condision for the full population.
I would imagine a quick surrender and a very unpleasant military occupation (for both sides).
 
A better idea of the interior of an arcology might be to imagine all of the Las Vegas super hotel-casinos linked together with the Mall of America. Large extravagent spaces unimaginable in the 'everyday' world are possible in an arcology. Think of all the money saved on highways and railroads used to build indoor amusement parks.
 
Originally posted by atpollard:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by epicenter00:
10. Food Production.
The original concepts for arcologies include factories and food production in a vast underground complex as deep as half the building height. Where land is plentiful, like an arcology created because of a very thin atmosphere, it will probably be cheaper to grow food on the surface in greenhouses – perhaps extending for kilometers in every direction around the arcology. </font>[/QUOTE]The second option is more realistic. The ecological footprint will be many times more than its area. IIRC the average resource-producing area required per person is about 20,000 square metres. This is also why Island One type arcologies are likely to have a relatively low population density (although non-biological resources can be brought in from the outside, e.g. asteroids).
 
Originally posted by atpollard:
Think of all the money saved on highways and railroads used to build indoor amusement parks.
:eek:
file_28.gif
My idea of a nightmare ... but then I'm a landscape architect. ;)
 
An arcology 1Km Cubed will have more problems with verticle spaces in the form of air pressure and temperature differences. An expmple of verticle temperature differences would be the Grand Canyon. It is 1000 to 1300 M Floor to rim with about a 30F temperature difference due to atmospheric compression. Elevators and veritcle transport shafts will encounter compression heating/cooling depending on direction of travel, not to mention ear popping could be wicked. Try going to a hospital pharmacy to get something for clogged sinus/ears when you can't equalize pressure. Now think about the problems transporting combat casualties significant verticle distances. Lung collapse, IV fluid pressures, heat problems would just begin the list of problems encountered.
 
Originally posted by Ranger:
"The desicion to fight for a city is a decision to destory the city"

The first sentance of a Soviet era urban combat doctrin manual.

That pretty much goes for an arcology, only more so. If there was a significant amount of combat in the structure, it would do a huge amount of damage to the life support infrastructure. It would probably take weeks if not months to get it back into livable condision for the full population.
That applies for any city, not just archologies, one can always quell the insurgency by nuking the city after all. Generally unban based insurgencies don't bring the full force of the military down on their heads, its more about kicking in doors than knocking down walls, the objective being to defeat the rebels without destroyng the city. The Rebels don't want the city destroyed because they'd die or they'll lose there cover, the government doesn't want the city destroyed because it is their city, destroying the insurgents is a secondary objective to preserving the city, that's how it would go in a combat in an archology too.
 
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