Another Stellar Size comparison video

[Blue Ghost]

I'm pretty sure this is a copy of another YouTube video I've seen elsewhere, but I'm too lazy to go looking for it right now. However, it is different enough from other similar videos in that it actually puts in a few other larger stars in the lineup.

Check it out; https://youtu.be/US_O0uK5piA

 

[flykiller]

thanks. 'specially like the pull-back to a full galaxy view at the end.

 

[JBRocky]

I like how they would zoom back in to see how big the Sun is compared to other stars.

 

[Theophilus]

Wow, So then since the jump limit is 100 diameters from these monsters, you literally can't jump there.

 

[Blue Ghost]

Wow, So then since the jump limit is 100 diameters from these monsters, you literally can't jump there.

For up to a certain stellar size and larger, I think that's true, but I seem to recall Whipsnade citing a system description where vessels were served by being towed to and fro the jump point of a world orbiting a blue-hyper giant ... I'm thinking it's in the Spinward Marches somewhere ... I just can't recall.

 

[Enoki]

You could jump to one of those monsters but then you'd spend a month or more moving sub-light to get to any planets surrounding them.

 

[Blue Ghost]

A thought just occured to me, Traveller essentially has "magic tech" where material's science goes; i.e. scout ships and space ships like pinnaces, shuttles, gigs and so forth, can protect the occupant from radiation from yellow and red stars. But would you need a specially designed and licensed vessel to jump to and operate around blue giants?

I wonder.

 

[flykiller]

But would you need a specially designed and licensed vessel to jump to and operate around blue giants?

nope, just lots and lots of distance. and maybe a gas giant or two between you and it.

hey, there's an adventure setting. big blue, distant gas giant, several orbital moons with mining concerns that can operate only when a moon is in a gas giant's shadow, gotta solve the mystery or repair the ship before sunrise like on crematoria in pitch black 2.

 

[aramis]

A thought just occured to me, Traveller essentially has "magic tech" where material's science goes; i.e. scout ships and space ships like pinnaces, shuttles, gigs and so forth, can protect the occupant from radiation from yellow and red stars. But would you need a specially designed and licensed vessel to jump to and operate around blue giants?

I wonder.

Nope... just remember - the hab zone is used (even in such systems which probably shouldn't have planets other than captured rogues) to define the hazardous ranges... 4 orbits in from it SHOULD be mercurial levels... 5 in should be lead atmospheres....

But Traveller's realism isn't all that strong at those levels.

 

[Blue Ghost]

nope, just lots and lots of distance. and maybe a gas giant or two between you and it.

hey, there's an adventure setting. big blue, distant gas giant, several orbital moons with mining concerns that can operate only when a moon is in a gas giant's shadow, gotta solve the mystery or repair the ship before sunrise like on crematoria in pitch black 2.

It reminds me of Harry Harrisons "Wheel World" trilogy. In book two the whole population has to move via train to the other hemisphere where it's cool, to avoid the searing killer summer temperatures. Adventure ensues. Imagine being out on the ocean with oven like temperatures. I can't remember much more.

 

[Blue Ghost]

Nope... just remember - the hab zone is used (even in such systems which probably shouldn't have planets other than captured rogues) to define the hazardous ranges... 4 orbits in from it SHOULD be mercurial levels... 5 in should be lead atmospheres....

But Traveller's realism isn't all that strong at those levels.

It has been a beef of mine since the game was first published. To be honest I didn't think Traveller would last very long because of its vanilla like presentation and a distinct lack of alien environments. By that I mean really extreme kind of stuff; adventuring on Venus, or diving into a Gas Giant's inner atmospheric layers and so forth.

Who knows. Maybe some T5 supp will be able to address this.

 

[aramis]

It has been a beef of mine since the game was first published. To be honest I didn't think Traveller would last very long because of its vanilla like presentation and a distinct lack of alien environments. By that I mean really extreme kind of stuff; adventuring on Venus, or diving into a Gas Giant's inner atmospheric layers and so forth.

Who knows. Maybe some T5 supp will be able to address this.

You have a longstanding and very obvious misunderstanding of Traveller's genre. It never has been "realistic Science Fiction"... it's space opera in the likes of Doc Smith, Azimov, Heinlein, and Niven. It's more Star Trek, Star Wars, BSG, Space Above and Beyond, and Firefly than "Gravity" or "The Martian"...

Realistic Sci-Fi usually fails - with the movie critics, with the gamers, with the general television and movie audience. TNE lost 3/4 of the traveller audience, and gained a much smaller, and mostly new, audience, most of whom wanted something very different from what the prior fanbase wanted.

And it wasn't even that much more realistic. It was Gritty Space Opera, not unlike Babylon 5 or Space Above and Beyond...

The real Hard-Sci-Fi fans are playing Transhuman Space, or Shock: Social Science Fiction, not Traveller.

A majority of Traveller campaigns never pay attention to anything but mainworlds.

Also, note: T5 isn't likely to correct the world gen any more than it already is... because, for space opera, it's plenty fine just to ignore all but the mainworlds when you don't want to.

Hell, most GM's ignore stellar types, many ignore local gravity, and few bother with language issues... all of which have at least passable coverage in CT and MT...

 

[Blue Ghost]

Eh, you know, I get all that. And I'm not looking for realism per se, but with all of the then theoretical environments that, again at the time, scientists would speculate on in the news, it just seemed a natural that if there was a new Trek TV series or a SW TV series, that they might try to have a look at Mercury-like, or Neptune-like environments for the sake of good story material. And, as such, Traveller or Star Frontiers or even the SW RPG would follow up on that or at least explore possibilities.

When I picked up the first Traveller book at ... some game store (I can't remember which one), the first thing I noticed was that there were no pictures in it (maybe there were, but I couldn't recall any). So I thought that if that was the case, then my superficial judgment was that it probably treats RPing like Avalon Hill war sims treat WW2; with a degree of realism--probably more than I care to get into.

Alas, that wasn't the case, but it sort of was in, as you say, a space opera kind of vein.

I shrug my shoulders at it now. The game or Marc Miller say they want to lean towards hard science, then the game, again as you say, tends to stick with worlds that are sort of Earth like. Whatever. I'm not angry or anything about it. It is what it is, and I'm not going to change it. All I can do is point out some potential on this BBS, and / or publish my own stuff in due course.

I guess Traveller's success is more because of hard adventure opera-like stuff, as opposed to 2001 Space Odyssey material. Oh well.

Still, I've said it a million times here, I wonder how a group of players would tackle Godzilla on a world without a local navy, and only their type-s scout ship. The vampire cloud from Trek? The "gods" from the War of the Gods episodes from BSG? But, Traveller has its limitations, and the author wants to take it in a direction he likes.

More power to him. I'm just pointing out possibilities here, like how do you handle (if you so desire) visiting a world orbiting a blue giant? What about a pulsar? Can you even go there? That's my vibe.

 

[aramis]

Eh, you know, I get all that. And I'm not looking for realism per se, but with all of the then theoretical environments that, again at the time, scientists would speculate on in the news, it just seemed a natural that if there was a new Trek TV series or a SW TV series, that they might try to have a look at Mercury-like, or Neptune-like environments for the sake of good story material. And, as such, Traveller or Star Frontiers or even the SW RPG would follow up on that or at least explore possibilities.

Again, you don't get the genre at all.

Space Opera is mostly shirtsleeve worlds.

 

[Blue Ghost]

I think I get the genre. I just think I have an imagination that's willing to go the extra step than your typical space opera trope.

Most space opera, like you say, sticks to familiar environments. I don't see a reason to stick with that. Ergo my posting of the size diagram, hoping to get other players and referees fired up.

... Traveller's been good to me, but I should probably get into another sci-fi RPG.

 

[flg]

You have a longstanding and very obvious misunderstanding of Traveller's genre. It never has been "realistic Science Fiction"... it's space opera in the likes of Doc Smith, Azimov, Heinlein, and Niven. It's more Star Trek, Star Wars, BSG, Space Above and Beyond, and Firefly than "Gravity" or "The Martian"...

I would counter that assertion by reminding you that Traveller products exist that focus on detailed science and more realism, such as CT Book 6, World Builders Handbook, Fire Fusion and Steel, and GURPS Traveller: First In and Far Trader, so I think claiming that Traveller has "never been about realistic science fiction" is just plain false. It's true to say that realism has never been the sole focus of the game, but options have been provided in official publications to allow for more realistic systems, economics and technologies.

While certainly the OTU was based on the works of the space opera authors you mention and has a more space opera feel, I would say that the game itself is flexible enough to allow GMs to play in both space opera and more realistic science fiction settings.