• Welcome to the new COTI server. We've moved the Citizens to a new server. Please let us know in the COTI Website issue forum if you find any problems.
  • We, the systems administration staff, apologize for this unexpected outage of the boards. We have resolved the root cause of the problem and there should be no further disruptions.

Alternate Collapse/ Virus Timeline

Chuck Anumia

SOC-14 1K
Has anyone hear heard of or written about an alternate TNE collapse timeline where virus did not destroy everything?

Perhaps Virus went off half cocked and died/suicided before infecting more systems.

Perhaps it did not jump past communication points.

Perhaps there were anti-Virus programs running on warships and other vessels that prevented Virus from taking control.

Perhaps only certain systems near the Core were affected.

I would like to hear about these possible theories being worked out so that we may retain more of a "CT" feel for The New Era adventures.
 
Also in the MT thread, as well.

But more to the point, I think the easiest thing to do would be to release Virus in a more advanced state - so it is a bit more evolved when it gets out to the point where the major "strains" already exist.

Oh yeah, and make sure it doesn't go completely berzerk and wipe out all of charted space. ;)
 
Johnnie,

Virus wasn't developed and/or released in my Wounded Colossus Rebellion timeline so I don't think it would meet your original request.


Have fun,
Bill
 
Originally posted by General Johnnie Reb:
Has anyone hear heard of or written about an alternate TNE collapse timeline where virus did not destroy everything?
IMTU IRIS were real. They successfully smuggled Strephon back to Capitol and presented him before the Moot. The Moot, who were increasingly uncomfortable with Lucan's excesses, accepted him as the true emperor ... albeit at a cost. With peace between Lucan's former area and Strephon's, and with many of Lucan's tactical blunders countermanded, much of the Imperium was stitched back together. The forces of Dulinor's faction were no match for the reconstructed Imperial Navy (especially with widescale defections). The final result was a return to the pre-war status quo ... with the following exceptions: (a) the formation of the Vilani Autonomous Region, (b) a significant shift of power from the Imperial throne to the Moot, (c) with much of the Imperial Navy destroyed the frontier areas are much more wild and unregulated (some areas remain Imperial in name only). No Virus. No collapse (or not completely, anyway).

Regards PLST
 
I created a sector of space that is seperated, pretty severely, from the main disc of the galaxy, a microcluster just barely a sector across, that was colonized by the Rule of Man and later discovered and recolonized by the Imperium (They never even knew the Long Night happened; they're THAT isolated). The Third Imperium setup a few heavily fortified bases on the two systems that allow jump travel between the Imperium and Solitude Cluster, and while the timeline in my game hasn't hit the collapse yet, when it does, that bottleneck should keep Virus mostly if not completely out of Solitude Cluster. For security reasons, there aren't even any digitized or computer records that the cluster is inhabited.
 
Johnnie,

I suppose you could 'dail back' Virus if you use an Ebola model instead of the canonical Influenza model. (I've found that using broad biological analogies helps me 'grok' Virus somewhat better.)

Currently our only 'defense' against Ebola is that is requires a very specific host. It jumps between hosts rarely and then usually doesn't survive/reproduce easily enough to jump again. In the 1980s or 90s, some poor SOB died gruesomely of Ebola aboard a commuter airliner in Africa and yet none of the other passengers developed the disease.

Virus was supposed to 'infect' ships and only through their transponder systems. You could presume that the Omnicron researchers were more successful in 'geneering' Virus to maintain and hold to those two abilities. The release at Omnicron would then infect the two fleets invovled and those fleets would then go ontt infect other ships but...

... Virus would find it hard to jump to and live in other systems.

This difficulty in jumping to other hosts is what keeps Ebola under 'control'. It is also what is currently worrying the world about the avian flu, we're closely monitoring that disease to be warned when it evolves enough to make the bird-to-human and human-to-human jumps.

I've suggested that Virus and the Deyo Transponder acted like the two strains of syphilis did in 1492. Each hemisphere had its own strain of syphilis, one that had evolved to 'live' more successfully (not kill quickly) within the host populations. When the two strains 'met' and 'bred' together, syphilis became a disease that killed within days. (In the ensuing centuries it has evolved 'back' into one that lives more successfully with its hosts.)

We can presume that the fully sentient, crazy killer Viral strain was produced when the Omnicron strain met the Deyo chips. That is what the Omnicron researchers were working towards after all. From that idea it not a big step to suggest that this killer Viral strain can only exist within the environment provided by the Deyo Transponder just as Ebola can only exist within its specific host.

Limiting Virus to being hosted by the Deyo Transponder system could reduce it to an endemic problem from the canoncial pandemic level. Virus could still evolve and would need to be watched/eradicated to (hopefully) prevent that evolution from 'releasing' it from the Deyo transponder just as we are watching/eradicating avian flu to hopefully prevent it from being released, but the Virus would now be 'dialed back' from a pandemic holocaust to an endemic cybernetic 'health' problem.

The killer Viral strain embedded in the Deyo Transponder could still release 'seeds' or 'eggs' that, if they find another Deyo Transponder or (perhaps) a somewhat similar environment, could grow into a copy of the fully sentient, crazy killer strain. However, if those eggs do not find the right host they would either 1) die or 2) merely disrupt systems up to the point where they 'kill by ommission'(1)

Thus limiting the number of systems that can actually host Virus; the Deyo Transponders and a handful of similar systems, and limiting it's propagation methods; physical and comm links but not sensor data, will limit Virus' effects.

Off the top of my pointy head:

- The vast majority of shipping including the warships of all the factions involved is doomed. As in TNE, Virus will infect and destroy all but the most technologically obsolete.

- Damage and losses to infrastructure beyond shipping will be limited to those targets Virus can damage/destroy while in control of ships and those systems Virus can partially infect with its less effective 'seeds' or 'eggs'.

- We'll have space swept clean of ships while the worlds below are only partially damaged at the same time and by the same mechanism.

The immediate result of all this is that the various wars are now over and that interstellar travel is now rare to the point vanishing until new ships that do not provide a host system for Virus are built. One major consequence of this is that no multi-system polities will exist.

The result in the long run is that defenses against recurring Viral outbreaks resemble our current defenses against influenza pandemics. Infected hosts will be detected, isolated, and destroyed much the same way we now detect, isolate, and destroy domestic fowls to defend against avian flu. Systems at greater pontential risk for Viral infection will monitored and immunized in much the same way we know monitor and immunize at risk populations for influenza. Deadly outbreaks of Virus will occur in regions with weak or nonexistent "cybernetic health" defenses against Virus just as there are deadly outbreaks of measles, cholera, and flu in regions with weak or nonexistent health systems.

After this shipping 'holocaust', Chartered Space will be made up of tens of thousands of individual worlds. When enough new, Viral proof ships are built thousands of pocket empires will begin forming with all the shenanigans that involves. Think of it as "Interesting Times" on steroids.

Hope all this nonsense helps.


Have fun,
Bill

1 - I've suggested several times that, because Virus is 'situationally sentient', that it kills mainly by ommission. A Viral infection grows within a cybernetic system talking over more and more memory and more and more processing power as it attmepts to achieve sentience. Eventually, this hijacking shuts donw the other functions being handled by the infected processor. If that processor is in a toaster, you get bunrt toast. If that processor is in your air/raft, you better have a parachute. In neither case however did Virus consciously choose to burn you toast or turn off the air/raft's CG nodes.
 
Hi Bill!
This is almost exactly the kind of nosen...er...information I was looking for.
Using R/L models of ifectious outbreaks I can "Recreate" the outbreak of Virus in this new form from Omnicron.
I can chart the spread of virus through the faction fleets, their support ships and from there to the traders.
I am sure it would follow the X-Boat routes down the mains and to the secondary and tertiary lines.

Great work!
Thanks.
Chuck W.
of intersteller travel.
 
Originally posted by General Johnnie Reb:
This is almost exactly the kind of nosen...er...information I was looking for.
Johnnie,

Glad I could help. There were many good suggestions here from all the posters.


Have fun,
Bill
 
Discussion in this thread has resulted in conclusions similar to the excellent ideas of Bill Cameron - to limit the Virus' habitats. I'd put the following limits:

1) The Virus must come in direct software contact (i.e. direct wire-link or high-bandwidth wireless/radio/laser/MASER transmission) to infect a system; no "machine telepathy" and no infection through sensors. There are also no "castrated virus" transponders; virii are information (software) entities rather than physical (hardware) ones. Also remember that the AI virus is not just a regular computer virus; its an AI organism, and thus should IMHO be quite bigger than a software virus - its transmits its consciousness, not just its software "DNA" nescery to replicate and operate. That it, its "data files", not just the "Virus-OS" (which should be big by itself - its an AI after all). Anything that allows the download of large software should allow Virus download, too.

2) The Virus, while capable with a certain level of adaptation to various "habitats" (i.e. different computational powers of host-computers), has limits; it cannot directly control a computer of Model/3 or less, a TL10- planetary network or a non-sentient robot; it cannon leave "eggs" on Model/2 or less computers or TL9- planetary networks (use the Hard Times TL for this - any network reduced to TL9 or less has effectively collapsed below the capacity required to host the Virus. It can, however, hack and/or reprogram other systems, but that requires it to control a computer AND have access (radio, laser or hardwire) to the target system or device. The reason for limiting it to higher-TL computers was to limit its spread and thus make it as rare as it should be (and thus an interesting phenomena rather than a uniform blanket all over known space); also, remember that an AI would probably need a minimal amount of processing power to operate, even at a bare-minimum level, and a minimal amount of storage-space to reside in. It also makes big military ships rare in 1200 (or the "toned down" 1138 milieu I am thinking about) - most of them had computers which were VERY optimal habitats for Virus, and thus got infected early - and usually by the early "suicide" strain (remember that the biggest surviving fleets in 1130 were Dulinor's Coronation Fleet and Lucan's defense fleets). Also, remember that the universe that I'm trying to imply is one in which the Virus is mostly localized to the Core - controlling the decaying remnants of Lucan's Imperium among other things - with occurances of the Virus in the periphery (Diaspora, Solomani Rim, Spinward Marches, Old Expanses and so on) being VERY rare even at the height of its spread. So a recovery in the periphery would start in 1150 rather than in 1200.

3) The entire X-Boat network was completely wiped out by 1130; other starships carrying powerful enough computers for Virus "eggs" were also quite rare, especially in the Core (close to Research Station Omicron) where the final battles between Lucan and Dulinoir left massive devastation in its wake.
 
Another possibility to consider for Virus - using Bill´s biological analogy - is making something like the HIV virus, instead of influenza or ebola.

In other words, the virus just spreads, and spreads, and spreads, quite easily under the right circumstance - and by the time it actually breaks out, it is far too late to contain it. It is, however, not too late to test for it and shut down or destroy infected computers.

So, instead of near-total destruction, as per TNE, or a "starship Holocaust", as per Bill´s ideas, you´d have a couple of very ugly incidents (i.e. Virus awakens in a host, equivalent to an HIV positive person developing AIDS), you´d have a universe with relatively little Virus-prone technology, and maybe extreme paranoia towards high-TL ships and computers in some areas (just like IRL there is/was paranoia towards gays for supposedly all being HIV infected).
 
In Book 8 there is a maximum synaptic reliability by tech level. If we end up going the TNE route I might limit Virus to systems with X% synaptic processors. That would get you the effect you are talking about. Only high tech “thinking” systems would be trashed.
 
Originally posted by Kurega Gikur:
In Book 8 there is a maximum synaptic reliability by tech level. If we end up going the TNE route I might limit Virus to systems with X% synaptic processors. That would get you the effect you are talking about. Only high tech “thinking” systems would be trashed.
Exactly! I'd say that the Virus needs a minimal level of intelligence to operate at all, even though its intelligence is adaptive (it could grow much smarter on higher-capacity computers, but it needs a minimum amount of processing and/or synaptic capacity to operate). So only TL12+ computers would accomodate a Virus - actually only computers that can only be manufactured at TL12+; a Model/1 manufactured on a TL13 world would still be insufficient.

So the big, powerful high-TL megastarships would fall, the big, powerful high-TL industrial centers will fall, but the periphery will survive with only Hard Times effects.

And hence my 1138 campaign
 
Couldn't Virus also write subroutines that compress the basic code for it's intelligence, put that in storage in a new system, and run a dumb code that just replicates until it finds a system of sufficient size, then explodes the compressed data?
 
Originally posted by Archhealer:
Couldn't Virus also write subroutines that compress the basic code for it's intelligence, put that in storage in a new system, and run a dumb code that just replicates until it finds a system of sufficient size, then explodes the compressed data?
Yep, that's a Virus "Egg", but even when compressed a minimal memory size and processing power is required. That's why "Eggs" have lower requirements than active Virii in the suggested rules that I've posted in the previous page
 
Ahhh. There's me not getting it because I'm not terribly familiar with that part of Traveller history. I should really get my hands on those resource books and read up..
 
Back
Top