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aerodynamic streamlining

how important is atmospheric/dramatic streamlining in your traveller ship depictions

  • don't care, our games are strictly verbal

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I like using low tech solutions to challenge/counter players high tech advantages.
I also like the notion that (much as today) a low tech nation can actually buy in surface to air missiles or interceptors and run them. You could also put something functionally equivalent to a turret mounted ship's laser on a trailer and use it as ground based air defence.

If the they can't afford to run SDBs, perhaps the government could purchase and run a few armed boats or pinnaces. These can have a secondary defence capability while being available for search and rescue missions, customs inspections, maintaining satellites in orbit or other functions.

In a traveller setting, long haul air travel would consist of a shuttle on a ballistic trajectory and you could get to any major airport within an hour or so. The boats or pinnaces discussed above might also just fill the role of general military transport capability.

Unless the world's economy was completely dysfunctional or it was so backward and isolated that it had no interstellar trade, any world with a population from 5-6 up could afford to run this level of infrastructure. Depending on how backward your setting is this might or might not apply to a significant fraction of worlds.

However, at a minimum ground mounted lasers or missile systems could be fielded by most planetary governments if they found they had a problem with bad-mannered adventurers.
 
I also like the notion that (much as today) a low tech nation can actually buy in surface to air missiles or interceptors and run them. You could also put something functionally equivalent to a turret mounted ship's laser on a trailer and use it as ground based air defence.

....

However, at a minimum ground mounted lasers or missile systems could be fielded by most planetary governments if they found they had a problem with bad-mannered adventurers.

The trailer thing has been done in last decade, with the weapons unit and power pack all contained in a single semi-trailer. It doesn't seem to have been reported on for a while after some very promising trials. Who knows...

Missile systems may be cheap to purchase, but they need to be maintained. In Traveller that'd be a perfect opportunity for a contracted service to either maintain some techs on a world doing that, or spend time trying to edumacate some locals so they can do it themselves, or just travel there for regular scheduled maintenance.

Of course, if they got caught there in a conflict, that might mean a group of PCs could go to extract them when hired by the personal safety insurance company. Hmmm. PCs in a ship going to rescue (?) some techs who were working in an anti-air/space missile system. That should produce some interesting conundrums for them!
 
[ . . . ]
Missile systems may be cheap to purchase, but they need to be maintained. In Traveller that'd be a perfect opportunity for a contracted service to either maintain some techs on a world doing that, or spend time trying to edumacate some locals so they can do it themselves, or just travel there for regular scheduled maintenance.[ . . . ]
Any weapon system will need maintenance. However, if a laser or missile turret can be maintained on a free trader a ground-based system isn't going to cost much more to run. This is, of course, somewhat at odds with the cost of running high-end surface-air missile systems today. One could perhaps rule that they are built more for ease of maintenance by the time of the OTU.
 
...However, at a minimum ground mounted lasers or missile systems could be fielded by most planetary governments if they found they had a problem with bad-mannered adventurers.

That's how I run things. Some form of planetary defense is a given except on low pop or low tech worlds, although a lot of the time it's just a missile launcher and an armed ship's boat that doubles as their way to place and maintain satellites. The alternative is to have some pirate show up in orbit and demand a fee to not drop things on them. Worlds of about 10,000 pop and more generally have enough of a tax base to buy some kind of defense.
 
Back in the MegaT days I remember we were designing low-tech starport defences around weapons able to be produced at those low tech levels. IIRC, Rob Dean had some great designs for merchie killers that made skipping out on a TL7 government a little more exciting than adventurers might have bargained for.

Tracked vehicles mounting CPR guns capable of punching through 40 armour and the like.
 
Any weapon system will need maintenance. However, if a laser or missile turret can be maintained on a free trader a ground-based system isn't going to cost much more to run. This is, of course, somewhat at odds with the cost of running high-end surface-air missile systems today. One could perhaps rule that they are built more for ease of maintenance by the time of the OTU.

But today those systems are generally the leading edge of technology that's available across the globe. Sure, there's variations from country to country, but it's all pretty good and effectiveness can vary by degrees between contemporaneous systems.

On a TL8 world however, if they've got an agent who can get access to some TLB or C systems and have contractors maintain them, they're not getting something that may be the latest development, but a tried and tested system that's been in use for hundreds of years if not longer. All the R&D costs would have been recouped centuries before, patents would have run out, and markets are in the hundreds not the tens. All of that could push the price of defensive systems down.

Yes, a pirate could sit outside the range and threaten to drop rocks on the planet, but if they could afford an anti-ACS scale system, they may be able to afford an anti-planet-killing missile defence system.
 
[ . . . ]

On a TL8 world however, if they've got an agent who can get access to some TLB or C systems and have contractors maintain them, they're not getting something that may be the latest development, but a tried and tested system that's been in use for hundreds of years if not longer. All the R&D costs would have been recouped centuries before, patents would have run out, and markets are in the hundreds not the tens. All of that could push the price of defensive systems down.

Yes, a pirate could sit outside the range and threaten to drop rocks on the planet, but if they could afford an anti-ACS scale system, they may be able to afford an anti-planet-killing missile defence system.

That's pretty much what I'm getting at. A (say) TL12 system could also be built for ease of maintenance (i.e. an export version). The days are long gone when avionics systems needed cutting edge hardware - you could build systems with off the shelf (albeit space certified) hardware, probably using off-the shelf components.

There is always a market for older military hardware, and supplies for it. For example, there is an outfit in Pakistan that still makes ammunition for 25 pounders, and there are a number of parties that make parts and upgrades for old jets like MIG-21's. A similar ecosystem of secondary market players could easily exist in a Traveller setting.

Given that Mercenaries are a thing in Traveller, getting crews to run these systems could be accomplished off the open market as well.

For my traveller universe (a bit lower tech than the third imperium) I did a bunch of 'old' Terran kit sitting around the TL11 range. This included various vehicles, missile systems, artillery and suchlike and were intended precisely for this sort of situation. The analogy I would make is old cold-war era equipment, Soviet kit in particular. This was designed to be idiot proof and easy to run in poor conditions. Not the best performance but still perfectly adequate if your enemies aren't equipped with expensive cutting-edge tech.

There were also some variants with third party modifications or upgrades with higher tech kit. For example, I did a light-ish grav tank with a B gun. This was designed to be landed in a cutter module so it had a configuration with relatively light armour that could be twinked out with add-on armour panels. It also had variations with a pulse laser or a TL12 fusion gun that was designed specifically as a drop-in replacement for a B-gun. Variants could also have upgraded electronics.

These designs were intended for use with mercenary campaigns and suchlike. As 'older' kit they were supposed to be representative of the sort of kit that you could find on the grey market. Stuff like this is much more useful for actual role-playing than the latest TL15 battle cruiser. It's the sort of thing you could reasonably expect to encounter as a band of shady adventurers looking to make a few bob on the fringes of the imperium.
 
Interesting how this has strayed from the opening post. I'll be a spoilsport and go back to the opening topic. :P

IMTU streamlining is somewhat important. There are enough advances in flight/gravitics/materials that most ships don't actually need full streamlining. That said, just as cars in the 20th century had fins/scoops/etc designed to look like supersonic aircraft there are those ships that are built to a cutting-edge level of streamlining simply for the look. And to showcase how expensive their craft is.

As for the system defense systems, IIRC the rules for High Guard and for other vehicles both discuss how a high-tech system can make "retro" tech items for pennies on the dollar. I can see many TL12+ megacorps having lines of 'older' tech they make specifically for export to lo-pop/lo-tech worlds that would actually cause most ships to pause before launching an attack. For the buyer the tech is adequate, and for the seller the item costs so little they are profitable even at what the buyer can afford to pay.
 
It also depends on what you mean by "streamlined."

For example, the iconic Scout wedge design isn't streamlined. It is more streamlined than a brick, but would still have a ton of drag. Its shape is more suited to aerobraking than maneuvering.

The important part of streamlining is areal density—how much mass is behind each unit area that has to push through the air. Streamlining pretty much means "pointy cylinder."
 
Pyramids and cones have the same relationship of base area to volume, Straybow.

And flattened pyramids are far better for atmospheric maneuver.
 
It also depends on what you mean by "streamlined."...

As near as I can figure, "streamlined" = "not a brick". Book 5's nonstreamlined designs were the planetoid/buffered planetoid and the dispersed structure, which was pretty much a bunch of bricks on a framework. MT came in and added "air-frame", which meant the shape actually supported maneuvering. Per MT errata, "Without power, a streamlined craft drops like a rock," where "an airframe craft can glide to a landing without power if necessary."

MT did the bit about not letting unstreamlined ships land on atmosphere worlds but, given that design system, that could as easily have been attributed to unstreamlined ships not being equipped for it. The unstreamlined designs could be used for vehicles like groundcars and grav vehicles, which would of course have been moving about in atmosphere. There, they were limited to 300 kph top speed regardless of drives, streamlined craft were limited to 1000 kph, and airframe craft had no speed cap - their top speed was set by their thrust rating, so your 6G airframe could do better than Mach 3 while the scout/courier's drag was holding it back to 1000 kph.
 
Pyramids and cones have the same relationship of base area to volume, Straybow.

And flattened pyramids are far better for atmospheric maneuver.
"Pointy cylinder" != cone

The closest thing to a flattened pyramid that has ever flown would be the F-117... not very close at all
 
Yeah, and I think most of them could go over a hunnert miles an hour!

On engines that produced less power than the average modern luxury car. (The DR I was using a 160 HP engine... a typical luxury car now uses 200 to 300 HP engines.) And which massed 3-4 times what the engine in the luxury car does.
 
Fighters and fuel skimmers should be as they may interface with a atmosphere at high velocities. Downport landings are usually handled by ships boats/cutters/cargo shuttles so they may benefit from streamlining.
The big boys don't land and use the high port's exclusively. In a universe with antigravity and Mdrive, the need for even medium ships to be streamlined is not evident and in fact is counter indicated due to the loss of volume. They can land.. just very slow descent with a zero zero velocity relative to the planet. slowly float down and if not built to land on landing struts, either floating on Antigrav, or bobbing in water.
 
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