• Welcome to the new COTI server. We've moved the Citizens to a new server. Please let us know in the COTI Website issue forum if you find any problems.
  • We, the systems administration staff, apologize for this unexpected outage of the boards. We have resolved the root cause of the problem and there should be no further disruptions.

2K Worlds

S

Shadowfax

SOC-12
IMTU the players didn't like the K'kree, so I decided to make the k'kree just one of the client races that made up the 2k worlds.

This is not canon at all, but I added an eclectic mix of other sentient beings to the 2K worlds gave them a parliamentary system.

We added the following:

1.Regul an elephant people either from "Footfalls" or "The Faded Sun" trilogy (I can't remember which).

2.The Glubru and Kwakoo avian races from David Brin's "Uplift War" series.

3. A race of small ape-like creatures, who are fierce in ground combat and breathe methane.

4. A squirrel like race from a low gravity system.

5. A arachnid race (not the Tholians), that have armored carapaces and are fairly good at fighting too.


We moved the K'kree to the backseat. This way the 2K worlds really live up to their name.
 
Regul are from the Faded Sun trilogy.


I put a 6-world "pocket empire" in my TU populated with Thranx (Alan Dean Foster's Humanx Commonwealth books).
 
2k worlds

I like that idea. Even if the Kkree we're a primary race they could be more interesting with other plant eaters.
 
The Vargr might enjoy making hunting raids among the other plant-eaters, too. A little diversity making for a more balanced diet.
 
plant eaters

Excellent thought... actually most conflict would be vargr...Kkree. After all Humaniti would say "whatever dudes!"

A less powerfull K'kree stuck in the 2k worlds as a majority power would be a bit more reasonable.
 
Curse this reptile brain! ; - )

BlackBat242 said:
Regul are from the Faded Sun trilogy.


I put a 6-world "pocket empire" in my TU populated with Thranx (Alan Dean Foster's Humanx Commonwealth books).
Click to expand...

-----------------Ahh . . . well, you got me there.

---------------------Thanks, I apparently got that all mixed up. Alzheimers starts in your 40s right? ; - )
 
K'Kree

savage said:
Excellent thought... actually most conflict would be vargr...Kkree. After all Humaniti would say "whatever dudes!"

A less powerfull K'kree stuck in the 2k worlds as a majority power would be a bit more reasonable.
Click to expand...

-----------Yeah, you know I have always wondered how the K'kree are supposed to work? I mean they are like fanatic PETA members or something. They wiped-out that carnivore race in their early years. They do not like meat eaters and they tend to be genocidal. I do not think that I would want to live in the Ley sector or in any of those Client states on the border in the triangle (Imperium-Hive-2k Worlds). Wouldn't the K'kree be like these super-paranoid "genocidic" equines from hell?

----------------I always figured that they were separated from the Vargr by the Lesser Rift. I could see it being this big bottle-neck with the few jump points being heavily defended on both the Vargr and K'Kree sides of the Rift. I do not think that the Vargr and the K'kree would get along, but the Rift would keep them from invading each other. I could see the Vargr trying some raiding and piracy as they are want to do and the K'Kree every now and then mounting some punishing invasion alla Isreal/Lebanon, but what about the Imperium and those Client states?

1. ) What is to keep the K'Kree from invading the Imperium? Ok, I suppose the obvious is that the Imperium is too strong. If that is the case then . . .
2.) What is to keep the Imperium from invading the 2k Worlds? Can't they get enough of a local "levy" / "Frontier" force together to mount a major operation or are they just at peace? How could the K'Kree be at peace with dangerous omnivorous on their borders? Even the Hivers are omnivorous! Ok, so what you can say that the K'kree supposedly fear being socially "re-engineered" by the Psychohistory-manipulating Hivers. This still doesn't explain the client states or whatever they are. You know? All those little borderland clump states like the ones you find in GATEWAY, GLIMMERDRIFT REACHES and THE CRUCIS MARGIN sectors?
3.) What keeps the K'kree from gobbling up those little states on the borderlands? I mean, there are omnivorous humans there too right?

To me the K'kree seem to be paranoid if not expansionist, so what keeps a major war from breaking out in that area?

Did the K'kree ever fight with the Vargr or the Imperium? I do not remember reading about it anywhere.

I am still trying to figure out the gestalt of this IMTU. I could insert all of these other races into the 2k Worlds and have them be torn with internecine conflicts and feuding or I could make another Empire with the other races that is located on the trailing side of the 2K worlds. That way the K'Kree would be too busy with them to worry about the Vargr, Imperium and those little border states.

OR: Did I get that wrong? Do any of you not think that the K'Kree are not rabidly paranoid-genocidal-fanatic and expansionist vegetarians?

Please give me some feedback/Input on this one, because I can't see how these guys fit in to the traveller puzzle or patchwork quilt or whatever you want to call it.

-M
 
Shadowfax said:
Did the K'kree ever fight with the Vargr or the Imperium? I do not remember reading about it anywhere.

-M
Click to expand...

Imperium-K'kree? A direct conflict is doubtful due to the wide separation of their territories, but some proxy fighting might have occurred in the client states of the Ley, Gateway (Maranatha-Alkhest), Glimmerdrift Reaches, & Crucis Margin sectors.

K'Kree-Vargr? See next my answer.



Shadowfax said:
----------------I always figured that they were separated from the Vargr by the Lesser Rift. I could see it being this big bottle-neck with the few jump points being heavily defended on both the Vargr and K'Kree sides of the Rift. I do not think that the Vargr and the K'kree would get along, but the Rift would keep them from invading each other. I could see the Vargr trying some raiding and piracy as they are want to do and the K'Kree every now and then mounting some punishing invasion alla Isreal/Lebanon, but what about the Imperium and those Client states?

-M
Click to expand...

The big 4-page folding map (black with red lines & white letters) of the Imperium (and the 6 empires surrounding it) published by GDW in 1981 shows a J-4 route across the Lesser Rift from The Two Thousand Worlds to a small K'kree area on the border of some scattered "Vargr Enclaves".

The CT supplement Alien Module 2 K'Kree has a map that shows that "advanced position" as being in subsectors A, B, C, E, F, G, I, & J of GN'hk'r sector.

There are Vargr enclaves in the three sectors immediately coreward, core/spinward, and spinward of the K'Kree colonies, so I would expect that there is already conflict between the two groups in that area.



Shadowfax said:
1. ) What is to keep the K'Kree from invading the Imperium? Ok, I suppose the obvious is that the Imperium is too strong. If that is the case then . . .
2.) What is to keep the Imperium from invading the 2k Worlds? Can't they get enough of a local "levy" / "Frontier" force together to mount a major operation or are they just at peace? How could the K'Kree be at peace with dangerous omnivorous on their borders? Even the Hivers are omnivorous! Ok, so what you can say that the K'kree supposedly fear being socially "re-engineered" by the Psychohistory-manipulating Hivers. This still doesn't explain the client states or whatever they are. You know? All those little borderland clump states like the ones you find in GATEWAY, GLIMMERDRIFT REACHES and THE CRUCIS MARGIN sectors?
3.) What keeps the K'kree from gobbling up those little states on the borderlands? I mean, there are omnivorous humans there too right?

To me the K'kree seem to be paranoid if not expansionist, so what keeps a major war from breaking out in that area?

-M
Click to expand...

See USSR-USA "relations" from 1946-1986.

Neither power truly strong enough to defeat the other in a major war, but willing to use smaller/weaker nations as pawns, proxies, and "object lessons" in order to maintain a precarious "status quo" and prevent an "all-out war" that would be disastrous (economically & in regards to security from other threats on each state's other borders) to both parties.

Both states would have a vested interest in preserving those "client States" for just that purpose... to provide a "pressure relief/safety valve" for tensions and disagreements.

A particular sector Duke getting too vigorous in pushing for a "punitive" expedition? Authorize him to take out a client state from the other side... then make sure the other side sends one of their troublemakers to defend it... and both sides limit the amount of forces allowed for the operations.

The Press making headway in turning public opinion against the Emperor for "being too soft on the plant-eaters"? See the above problem resolution method.


An occasional change of "control" might happen, but it would be rare and not last very long.
 
Last edited:
Interstellar relations

Shadowfax said:
----------------I always figured that they were separated from the Vargr by the Lesser Rift. I could see it being this big bottle-neck with the few jump points being heavily defended on both the Vargr and K'Kree sides of the Rift. I do not think that the Vargr and the K'kree would get along, but the Rift would keep them from invading each other. I could see the Vargr trying some raiding and piracy as they are want to do and the K'Kree every now and then mounting some punishing invasion alla Isreal/Lebanon, but what about the Imperium and those Client states?

1. ) What is to keep the K'Kree from invading the Imperium? Ok, I suppose the obvious is that the Imperium is too strong. If that is the case then . . .
2.) What is to keep the Imperium from invading the 2k Worlds?
3.) What keeps the K'kree from gobbling up those little states on the borderlands? I mean, there are omnivorous humans there too right?


-M
Click to expand...
Essentially I'd agree. Another train of thought it that taking on the Imperium means declaration that Solomani, Vargr and every other carnivorous sophont is next. The Imperium going after 2kW would leave it open on other borders.
I think point 3 is exactly leading to the answer. Both civilization have formed lines watching the other and waiting. Neither wanting to be the agressor. And clearly not friends. Perhaps a more calm K'kree drive is to convert those sophonts neighboring them into vegitarian cultures.
 
As much as I do not like the K'kree (simply because they are just so unplayable). I would not remove them entirely. I would make them the gardeners of the 2k worlds. Actively, allowing life to flourish, pruning their worlds, sometimes exterminating pests but essentially taking a global or universal view of the worlds. This removes the idea of xenophobia from the mindset of the K'kree but does not remove the fanaticism.
 
BlackBat242 said:
Imperium-K'kree? A direct conflict is doubtful due to the wide separation of their territories, but some proxy fighting might have occurred in the client states of the Ley, Gateway (Maranatha-Alkhest), Glimmerdrift Reaches, & Crucis Margin sectors.
Click to expand...

I like the way you think. That pretty much is what I thought about too.

BlackBat242 said:
There are Vargr enclaves in the three sectors immediately coreward, core/spinward, and spinward of the K'Kree colonies, so I would expect that there is already conflict between the two groups in that area.
Click to expand...

YESSS!!! = )




BlackBat242 said:
See USSR-USA "relations" from 1946-1986.

Neither power truly strong enough to defeat the other in a major war, but willing to use smaller/weaker nations as pawns, proxies, and "object lessons" in order to maintain a precarious "status quo" and prevent an "all-out war" that would be disastrous (economically & in regards to security from other threats on each state's other borders) to both parties.

Both states would have a vested interest in preserving those "client States" for just that purpose... to provide a "pressure relief/safety valve" for tensions and disagreements.

A particular sector Duke getting too vigorous in pushing for a "punitive" expedition? Authorize him to take out a client state from the other side... then make sure the other side sends one of their troublemakers to defend it... and both sides limit the amount of forces allowed for the operations.

The Press making headway in turning public opinion against the Emperor for "being too soft on the plant-eaters"? See the above problem resolution method.

An occasional change of "control" might happen, but it would be rare and not last very long.
Click to expand...

Yeah, that all sounds good to me. I always figured that the K'kree were too small to take on the Imperium at large, but they probably make local gains or try to when the Imperials are busy elsewhere, like with the Zhos and I figure that this proxy war is going on as you suggest. All those little clients in between would confirm that for me esp. The ones labled "K'Kree outpost". = )
 
Shadowfax said:
IMTU the players didn't like the K'kree, so I decided to make the k'kree just one of the client races that made up the 2k worlds.

This is not canon at all, but I added an eclectic mix of other sentient beings to the 2K worlds gave them a parliamentary system.

We added the following:

1.Regul an elephant people either from "Footfalls" or "The Faded Sun" trilogy (I can't remember which).

2.The Glubru and Kwakoo avian races from David Brin's "Uplift War" series.

3. A race of small ape-like creatures, who are fierce in ground combat and breathe methane.

4. A squirrel like race from a low gravity system.

5. A arachnid race (not the Tholians), that have armored carapaces and are fairly good at fighting too.
Click to expand...

The K'kree can co-exist with other vegetarian races. In fact, in canon Traveller, the K'kree see themselves as the "champions" and defenders of the vegetarian way of life, and they don't hesitate to uplift minor sentients who are fellow veggies like themslves. But carnivores they'd exterminate.

A concept of a K'kree guided "parliamentary empire" is a good idea if it includes vegetarian sentient races. Think of it like a United Federation of Vegetarian Planets, in the Star Trek sense. The K'kree would be the guiding race of the Federation of The Two Thousand Worlds.

I doubt they can tolerate the Arachnid race if it happens to be carnivorous.

The Arachnidean Empire Navy has surrounded the last fortress of the Squirrel Republic.

"We demand your surrender, squirrel peoples, you are all surrounded! What is your answer?"

"NUTS!"
 
Canon says they don't automatically exterminate omnivores... they first see if they can de-meat their diets. If so, then they do so.

They'll do the same with carnivores, I suspect.
 
aramis said:
Canon says they don't automatically exterminate omnivores... they first see if they can de-meat their diets. If so, then they do so.

They'll do the same with carnivores, I suspect.
Click to expand...

Ah right, you are correct. I do remember that the K'kree first see if they can successfully convert the sentients into a vegetarian way of life. Only when the race refuses to embrace vegetarianism will they be targeted for extermination.

I remember that from a terrific article in JTAS, it's the one where a K'kree noble diplomat speaks a monologue (aimed at the JTAS reader) telling the reader how Humans grossly misunderstand his race.
 
kafka47 said:
As much as I do not like the K'kree (simply because they are just so unplayable). I would not remove them entirely. I would make them the gardeners of the 2k worlds. Actively, allowing life to flourish, pruning their worlds, sometimes exterminating pests but essentially taking a global or universal view of the worlds. This removes the idea of xenophobia from the mindset of the K'kree but does not remove the fanaticism.
Click to expand...

------------------Yeah, recently we "re-decided" to keep them in mostly for canonical reasons, but they are a smaller herd. They have a lot of subject races doing most of the dirty work for them and acting as proxies. If any of the subject races get too greedy or if they run up against opposition that is more than they can chew, they call on the K'Kree, who just come in with the herd fleet and nuke everything. Its sort of like good cop / bad cop or good cop / fanatic PETA vegetarian. Whatever you want to call it.
 
Maladominus said:
Ah right, you are correct. I do remember that the K'kree first see if they can successfully convert the sentients into a vegetarian way of life. Only when the race refuses to embrace vegetarianism will they be targeted for extermination.

I remember that from a terrific article in JTAS, it's the one where a K'kree noble diplomat speaks a monologue (aimed at the JTAS reader) telling the reader how Humans grossly misunderstand his race.
Click to expand...

Yeah, but that is just K'kree propaganda! ; - )
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

W
Race Lists
Replies
12
Views
3K
Innskip
I
Back
Top