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  #821  
Old September 3rd, 2020, 09:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Condottiere View Post
Prize money is gross profit based on the value (adjusted for shrinkage) of the loss to the enemy.
Prize money wasn't paid to members of the UK Royal Navy based on "loss to the enemy" but was based on what the Gov was willing to buy the ship for or what it sold for. Not including actual money captured that was on the ship captured.
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  #822  
Old September 3rd, 2020, 11:40 PM
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Prize money in the US Navy was based on what the ship taken sold for, while for privateers, distribution was based on the specific ship articles, although the owner or owners of the privateer normally got half. The government received 2 percent of the sale proceeds to finance pensions and homes for disabled sailors and widows. The US government did pay $20 per head for prisoners, both to government ships and privateers. I will see about posting some ship's articles, and also what some people received in prize money, and it was not always cash.
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  #823  
Old September 4th, 2020, 12:01 PM
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Setting aside the requisite repairs and refit to commission a captured enemy warship in your navy, if it blows up while being boarded would pretty much ensure there's not much left to purchase, except possibly, the figurehead.

While French naval architecture was a worthwhile study for the Admiralty, most captured French warships weren't really worth the effort to recommission.

On the outbreak of war Anderson was attached to HMS President for "Special Service at the Admiralty".[13] In 1916 he was nominally attached to the Trade Division of the Admiralty Staff.[14][Note 1] Having qualified as a barrister, from March 1916 onwards he acted as counsel for the Admiralty in the many prize law claims arising from the capture or sinking of enemy vessels by British ships during the war.

Although many countries (including Germany and the USA) had abjured the use of prize money by 1914, Britain and France signed an agreement that November establishing government jurisdiction over prizes captured singly or jointly by the signatories.[15] Russia and Italy acceded in March 1915 and January 1917 respectively.[16][17]

In Britain, until the passing of the Navy Prize Act 1918 a bounty was paid to all ships present at an enemy vessel's actual destruction; each man on board the victorious ship(s), without distinction of rank, shared the money awarded by the court, based on the sum of £5 ($25) for each man on board the enemy ship.[18] For example, a captured or sunk battleship with a complement of 453 officers and men (confirmed as soon as possible by affidavit) was worth £2,265.
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  #824  
Old September 4th, 2020, 01:00 PM
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I recall, from certain "days of sail" novels, that prize money also depended on things like the state of war and other considerations--if peace had ended (or started) unexpectedly before a prize was taken (or arrived at port?) there were, naturally, different rules--Droits of the Crown vs. Droits of Admiralty, IIRC.
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  #825  
Old November 7th, 2020, 07:29 PM
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I came across this while going through the Naval Documents related to the Quasi-War between the United States and France. It covers prize money to be awarded to any U.S. merchant ship that takes an armed French naval vessel or privateer during the period. It did not allow for the merchant ship to attack and take French merchant vessels. Actually, the U.S. Navy was not to attack French merchant vessels either, only armed French ships or privateers. This is part of a bill enacted by Congress.

Quote:
SEC. 2. And be it further enacted, That whenever the commander
and crew of any merchant vessel of the United States shall subdue and capture any French, or pretended French armed vessel, from which an assault or other hostility shall be first made, as aforesaid, such armed vessel with her tackle, appurtenances, ammunition and lading, shall accrue, the one half to the owner or owners of such merchant vessel of the United States, and the other half to the captors: And being bro ht into any port of the United States, shall and may be adjudged an3 condemned to their use, after due process and trial, in any court of the United States, having admiralty jurisdiction, and which shall be holden for the district into which such captured vessel shall be brought; and the same court shall thereupon order a sale and distribution thereof, accordingly, and at their discretion ; saving any agreement, which shall be between the owner or owners, and the commander and crew of such merchant vessel. In all cases of recapture
of vessels belonging to citizens of the United States, by any armed merchant vessel, aforesaid, the said vessels, with their cargoes, shall be adjudged to be restored, and shall, by decree of such courts as have jurisdiction, in the premises, be restored to the former owner or owners, he or they paying for salvage, not less than one eighth, nor more than one half of the true value of the said vessels and cargoes, at the discretion of the court; which payments shall be made without any deduction whatsoever.
Basically the ship, if it made a capture, had the prize money distributed one-half to the owner or owners, and one-half to the crew. If the ship recaptured an American merchant vessel, the owners and crew were entitled to a salvage award of between one-eighth and one-half of the value of the recovered ship and cargo.

One other side note to this batch of documents and those covering the Barbary Pirates is the value and types of cargo carried around 1800 by U.S. ships, and the fact that some ships would travel to several ports before selling the cargo, looking for the best deal. That would basically be Traveller speculative trading.
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  #826  
Old November 7th, 2020, 11:03 PM
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Interestingly, this is the last prize ship taken by a US Naval vessel

Quote:
The crewmen of USS Omaha hold the distinction of being the last American sailors to receive prize money, for capturing the German freighter Odenwald on 6 November 1941, just before America’s entry into World War II, though the money would not be awarded until 1947.
https://garlanddavis.net/2019/01/22/prize-money/

Quote:
It was not until 30 April 1947, that a case was brought by Odenwald‘s owners in the District Court for Puerto Rico, against the US. Their claim stated that because a state of war between the United States and Germany did not exist at the time of capture the vessel could not be taken as a prize or bounty. The court, however, given the fact that Odenwald was rescued from sinking by the US crew, declared that the seizing of the ship was defined as a legal salvage operation. The US was awarded the profits that were made from Odenwald and her cargo. All the men of the original boarding party received $3,000 each, while the rest of the crewmen in Omaha and Somers, at the time, were entitled to two months’ pay and allowances.
Possibly an easier way to distribute prize money?
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  #827  
Old November 12th, 2020, 11:14 PM
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The following is a quote from an article on the Alamo Scouts which appeared in the Intelligence Bulletin, June 1946, put out by the Military Intelligence Division of the U.S. War Department. The Alamo Scouts were organized by the G-2, that is the chief intelligence officer, of the 6th Army in the Southwest Pacific in World War 2. This was the type of individual that he was looking for. The Scouts served under and reported to him.

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Foremost of the requisites of a good scout is that he be intelligent. This does not mean "well educated." He need not hold a degree, he need not even have completed high school, though experience has proved that the better scouts are men who have at least completed high school. He must have "horse sense"—be able to think logically and make sound deductions.

Physically, a scout need not be a big man nor have the frame of an athlete. He must be strong enough to withstand fatigue on arduous marches and he must have no physical defects or debilitating diseases. His vision must be clear without the use of glasses and he must be a capable swimmer. This does not mean that he be merely able to swim. It means that he must be able to swim in rough surf or over distances up to at least a half mile. His physical vigor and resistance must be such that he is able to travel for weeks without the need of medical attention, since normally it will be impossible for him to get such attention.

Hand-in-hand with his intelligence and physical fitness, a scout needs courage and an attribute which may be called daring or a spirit of adventure— and this is to be distinguished from recklessness and lack of reasonable judgment.

Scouts are often called upon to make marches over tortuous terrain, up to 30 or 40 miles with little rest and little food. Trails and easy going are normally forbidden him since he must not be seen. A man without grit cannot do it. It takes courage, too, to get into a rubber boat with five or six other men. paddle silently through darkness and land on an enemy shore where there are no friendly troops. Scout teams never know whether they have gone undetected or whether they are paddling into the hands of an alert enemy. They do know that, if they are caught, there is virtually no hope for assistance. They must dare the risk.

Being naturally observant is part of a scout's equipment, and in this respect, men from small communities and rural areas seem most gifted. City-bred men are not excluded, however. Some of them have made excellent scouts. In basic training, all soldiers get instruction in scouting and patrolling, the use of the compass, and the use of cover and concealment. If they have not shown a natural aptitude for these subjects, it is not likely that they would make good scouts and time does not permit "starting from scratch."

Proper temperament or personality is the last requisite, but certainly not the least important. Teamwork is the key to successful scouting and not every man is willing or temperamentally suited to. mold himself into part of a small unit. Certainly initiative and individuality are desirable, since no one wants to work with a "deadhead," but a scout must harmonize his individualism with that of other members of his team. Being bellicose, loud, "mouthy"—being self-centered, contemptuous of others' opinions, unamenable to compromise, he will not succeed in this field.
Now, these are military intelligence scouts, not the type of Scout in the Scout Service in Traveller, but there would be some similarities. Clearly, the G-2 put a premium on intelligence and endurance, not so much strength, and the ability to work on a team. Their mission was to scout and report back, not fight.
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  #828  
Old November 13th, 2020, 08:32 AM
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Old November 13th, 2020, 11:40 AM
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thanks for posting these: not only interesting peeks into history and conceptions/ideas for those times, but also how they often still apply.
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Old December 6th, 2020, 10:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Condottiere View Post
Setting aside the requisite repairs and refit to commission a captured enemy warship in your navy, if it blows up while being boarded would pretty much ensure there's not much left to purchase, except possibly, the figurehead.

While French naval architecture was a worthwhile study for the Admiralty, most captured French warships weren't really worth the effort to recommission.

In Britain, until the passing of the Navy Prize Act 1918 a bounty was paid to all ships present at an enemy vessel's actual destruction; each man on board the victorious ship(s), without distinction of rank, shared the money awarded by the court, based on the sum of £5 ($25) for each man on board the enemy ship.[18] For example, a captured or sunk battleship with a complement of 453 officers and men (confirmed as soon as possible by affidavit) was worth £2,265.[/I]
If a ship was sunk the victorious RN ship(s) received "head and gun money".
I believe this applied to captured slavers from 1816 with a payment for each released slave.

Following Fleet actions the admiralty usually made an amount of prize money available despite the condition of the ships.

Kind Regards

David
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