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In the OTU In the Official Traveller Universe. Any milieux that's been published in any edition. Not for discussion of rules except in reference to how they reflect the OTU

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  #111  
Old April 22nd, 2021, 08:14 AM
kilemall kilemall is offline
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Originally Posted by Condottiere View Post
1. I didn't think anyone would make a challenge on this, but, okay:

Auto-Plotted Jumps

For unknown reasons, automated jumps are prone to an increased risk of misjump. A jump plotted by the automatic systems without the involvement of a sentient astrogator is subject to the same DM-4 as all other fully automated actions. For this reason, if just one skilled crewmembers is carried it is usually an astrogator. A jump plotted in semi-automatic mode by someone without the Astrogator skill but with a basic understanding of the concepts involved suffers DM-2. It is thought that a machine will produce several apparently equal solutions to the same jump plot and cannot distinguish between them but a sentient mind somehow ‘feels’ which one is slightly better than the others. Even someone who is not a trained astrogator can do this to some extent and if one is available they can oversee the plot. Their Astrogator skill applies in this case and the DM-2 is not suffered.

Attempting to send a ship through jumpspace without people on board enormously increases the risk of misjump, for reasons unknown. In addition to the DM-4 for the autoplot, a vessel suffers an additional DM-4 if there are no conscious minds aboard. Low berth passengers are by definition not conscious and experiments with highly intelligent but non-sentient minds have produced wildly differing results.

pages 236-7 ALIENS OF CHARTED SPACE VOLUME 2


Sounds almost as though Astrogation jump accuracy is a matter of a minor trained psionics talent.


Or that they need Spice....
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  #112  
Old April 22nd, 2021, 10:35 AM
kilemall kilemall is offline
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Which sort of trivializes jump control programmes computer processing powers, since I'll assume the technological nine model can easily deal with jump control six, though the textual implications are it automatically would know it, or at least, be included in any update.

Fair chance a Jump-6 is exponentially more difficult a calculation then a Jump-1.


The more interesting question is why is so much fuel required for it?
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  #113  
Old April 22nd, 2021, 11:03 AM
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1. Latent psionic talent; certainly tones of the Butlerian Jihad where human involvement is a requirement.

2. The primary taste of Coca-Cola is thought to come from vanilla and cinnamon, with trace amounts of essential oils, and spices such as nutmeg.

3. If the bandwidth of jump control six is thirty, Core forty (bis) would have a reserved bandwidth of thirty reserved exclusively for jump control programmes; I'd rather have that thirty for seventy total general utility bandwidth, and buy the jump control programmes as required.

4. Outside of game balance, I've come to the conclusion it's part of an alchemistical process.

Last edited by Condottiere; April 22nd, 2021 at 11:21 AM..
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  #114  
Old April 22nd, 2021, 11:26 AM
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Originally Posted by whulorigan View Post
To what are you referring when you say: "Its additional chapter"?
There was a Baen anthology released online a few months ago. Marc submitted an Agent chapter to it that isn't in the book.

https://www.baen.com/free-stories-20...jjWxzXAB9bvRFo

As Marc said on fb, this is best read after the book.
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  #115  
Old April 22nd, 2021, 11:29 AM
Baroun Tardis Baroun Tardis is offline
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Computers "more up to date now" - yeah, laptops on the ISS for example. Or, in a bigger way, compare the UI for the Dragon to the Shuttle.
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  #116  
Old April 23rd, 2021, 01:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kilemall View Post
Fair chance a Jump-6 is exponentially more difficult a calculation then a Jump-1.


The more interesting question is why is so much fuel required for it?
Out-of-universe, it's a performance-limiting game mechanic -- especially in LBB2, and most particularly in 2nd Edition. Restricts the highest jump numbers to higher tech levels (due to fixed-size components, and drive power scaling by TL), in a way that would become formalized in High Guard. High Guard's drop tanks can almost entirely decouple (core) ship size and Jump capability. (Minimum stripped-down J6 xboat is about 150Td without drop tanks, minimum J-6 ship is 100Td with a lot of payload capacity and maneuver capability if drop tanks are used.)

EDIT TO ADD: The other thing the 10%/Jn factor does is create a rules-based "physical" limit to Jn. In LBB2 2nd Ed, it's not possible to build a J7 ship because the drives and fuel won't fit, even using the magically effective Size Z drives. Drop tanks break this limitation, but HG replaces the "it can't be built" constraint with a "nobody knows how to build it yet" (tech level) limitation.

In-universe, it's because you need to get to a higher level of Jump Space to get the additional distance, which takes more energy (and thus fuel) to reach.

Last edited by Grav_Moped; April 23rd, 2021 at 01:28 PM..
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  #117  
Old April 23rd, 2021, 10:12 AM
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Originally Posted by Condottiere View Post
So this would be an alternate timeline, like Batman the Animated Series, where Turing invents the quantum computer to decode the Enigma machines.

I can deal with a steampunk aesthetic.
That works too, but I was thinking more along the lines of once quantum computers become a mature technology, later Brilliant Minds might come up with ways to build less sophisticated (but still useful) ones at lower Tech Levels. After all, no edition of Traveller ever specifies what type of computer runs a starship. Admittedly, this is largely because hardly anyone had even conceived of a quantum computer before the 1990s, but that doesn't mean that that couldn't be what High Guard meant all along, retroactively speaking. After all, brown dwarfs were barely more than theory in the 1970s, too.

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Originally Posted by GypsyComet View Post
Cue the recommendation to read Agent of the Imperium and its additional chapter, for those who haven't yet.
I read the 'extra chapter', but I haven't read 'Agent' yet. Is there weird Makhidkarun related stuff in there or other Ziru Sirka stuff worth knowing about?

The one thing I got from the short story, besides learning about the existence of creepy-deepy organitech aliens (Essaray again?) lurking about in Vargr space, was the offhand remark that there's an example of functioning pre-Grandfather(?!) ultratech chugging away somewhere in Deneb Sector.

Last edited by G. Kashkanun Anderson; April 23rd, 2021 at 10:54 AM.. Reason: fixing typos
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  #118  
Old April 23rd, 2021, 10:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kilemall View Post
Sounds almost as though Astrogation jump accuracy is a matter of a minor trained psionics talent.
Unlikely, as there is at least one race (Hivers) who have managed to master jump travel despite virtually no aptitude for psionics.

I think, perhaps, it has something to do with the fact that every instance of jump travel is a concrete example of Schodinger's Box in action, and as such it needs a literal observer to complete its function. Without some qualified observer of the phenomenon, the contents of the 'box' (in this case a starship) cannot either collapse into a single defined state (under Copenhagen interpretation) or manifest into its multiple possibilities (under the Many Worlds interpretation). The end result, from the outside universe's point of view, is that the jump fails somehow, quite often catastrophically.

So, what qualifies as an observer? Obviously, humans and other sentient beings do. But how low does it go? Do dogs, cats and lizards qualify? Ants and cockroaches? Divorce attorneys and social media influencers?

Nobody has ever figured that part out for certain, except that standard issue AI's (like robots and ship's computer systems) don't count, as well as most incarnations of the mysterious Essaray. Tech derived from naturally evolved silicon life (Virus) seems to work, although that is small comfort to the rest of us in Charted Space.
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  #119  
Old April 23rd, 2021, 11:36 AM
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Originally Posted by G. Kashkanun Anderson View Post
I read the 'extra chapter', but I haven't read 'Agent' yet. Is there weird Makhidkarun related stuff in there or other Ziru Sirka stuff worth knowing about?

The one thing I got from the short story, besides learning about the existence of creepy-deepy organitech aliens (Essaray again?) lurking about in Vargr space, was the offhand remark that there's an example of functioning pre-Grandfather(?!) ultratech chugging away somewhere in Deneb Sector.
Apropos to this discussion is the conversation the Agent has with the Comms guy at the end of that story. It needs the book to be in full context, though.
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  #120  
Old April 24th, 2021, 09:23 PM
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It leaves us with a lot of dead Aslan.

MongoVerse assumption is more sentient intuition as to the correct course of action, or just course, of course, to avoid going off course.

Coarsely speaking.
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