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In My Traveller Universe Detail what parts of Traveller you do (or don't) use in your campaign.

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  #21  
Old June 1st, 2009, 08:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shadowdragon View Post
one would think a vargr kick to forward would be comparatively similar to a human kick to the rear. i can kick my leg straight back only somewhat effectively but i can break bones in a snap kick forwards. errr... 20 years ago at least...
Great point, thanks SD. Yes, I had envisaged my Vagr ship-defense-Fu consisting of a sudden standing leap over the intruder's head with either a toe-claw rake to the eyes or a killing back-kick to the base of the skull (assuming human target, their Ship-Fu varies by target species & bodyform)


-----
IMTU Vargr Defensive Ship Fu is quite similar to Transhuman Space's Martian(low-gee) Kick-boxing/Savate/Caponeria(sp?), just with the leg moves reversed. E.g. instead of the human karate jumping, spinning, inside-outside axe kick to the top of the head to crack a vacsuit, they do a backflip, forward flick-flack and two-pawed double axe-kick to the armoured vacsuit NVG/optics, or an overhead leap and back-claw to tear helmet hoses and wiring.

So typically my Vargr pilot goes to the airlock while his partner engineer holds the engine room. When the first 2 pirates come on board, holding him at gun-point, he lets them escort him half-way to the bridge, before on his signal (double-blink) the she-wolf cuts the lights and drops the grav for 0.3s, just enough for guns to slip down while he leaps straight up into a pre-placed loose overhead hatch cover, and into the safety of the engineering spaces.

Rude intruders will have been blinded en route...Then he howls while moving
at full quadraped burst speed through the custom duct work to the concealed backup bridge, listening for his mate's answering howl over _all_ coms that she has control of the enemy ships external feeds and turrets (taken over via the docking tube. Then they kill all power, lights and vent the corridors, board the pirate ship and the fun really begins

Pirates in my Marches have a scary old urban legend about a 100ton ship called Lone Wolf or Ghost or Mary something....
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  #22  
Old June 21st, 2009, 06:21 PM
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I always felt that whoever came up with the statement 'Vargr can't kick', are either ignorant of physiology, or just plain naive.

If one is to really stick by this idea, then I would suggest they explain why ostriches can kick, and viciously so. True, the leg proportions are different, and Vargr aren't birds, but they do share the same basic leg structure.
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  #23  
Old June 22nd, 2009, 08:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Kawaresksenjajok View Post
I always felt that whoever came up with the statement 'Vargr can't kick', are either ignorant of physiology, or just plain naive.

Kawaresksenjajok,

They were and are none of those actually. They were speaking with an unvoiced assumption, one that you're completely unaware of.

When they said "Vargr can't kick" what they were really saying is that "Vargr can kick like humans".

And they can't.


Regards,
Bill
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  #24  
Old June 23rd, 2009, 12:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Whipsnade View Post
Kawaresksenjajok,

They were and are none of those actually. They were speaking with an unvoiced assumption, one that you're completely unaware of.

When they said "Vargr can't kick" what they were really saying is that "Vargr can kick like humans".

And they can't.


Regards,
Bill

Apparently I must be missing something, but then again, I don't pretend to speak for others, and can recognize confusion or bad rationale as well as anyone else.
I can speak of my experience with other players of Traveller, and many have expressed the idea that a Vargr could not kick effectively at all, and usually for reasons I have stated before. Although I don't think that's the issue here, but I'm seeing some familiar thought patterns regarding Vargr physiology.
To say Vargr can't kick like humans, is almost so vague, as to be meaningless. What kind of kicks are we talking about? What kind of kick could a human perform that could not be imitated by a Vargr in some form?
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  #25  
Old June 23rd, 2009, 02:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kawaresksenjajok View Post
To say Vargr can't kick like humans, is almost so vague, as to be meaningless.

Kawaresksenjajok,

So vague as to be meaningless? You can't look at a digigrade limb and imagine all the ways it can and cannot move?

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What kind of kicks are we talking about?
I'm sure a knee to the groin will quickly illustrate what the Hobby has been talking about for decades.

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What kind of kick could a human perform that could not be imitated by a Vargr in some form?
Watch a sporting event, MMA fight, or even a dance recital and then imagine people with legs like the Vargr making movements like those athletes, boxers, and dancers.


Regards,
Bill
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  #26  
Old June 23rd, 2009, 04:06 PM
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A Vargr's knee can't generate the force needed to effectively knee someon in the testes; the moment arm is too short. On the other paw, they shure can rend your belly by grabbing your shoulders and jumping.

Humans can generate a LOT of forward momentum, and have dense, bony, club-like feet.

A vargr probably CAN dribble a soccer ball with his feet, but I doubt he'd make a good distance or goal kicker. On the other hand, he'd be an ace rubgy front-liner...
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  #27  
Old June 23rd, 2009, 04:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aramis View Post
A Vargr's knee can't generate the force needed to effectively knee someon in the testes; the moment arm is too short.

Aramis,

Hence my suggestion that a human knee to his groin would quickly illustrate to Kawaresksenjajok what the Hobby has been saying for decades; humans and Vargr kick differently.

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On the other paw, they shure can rend your belly by grabbing your shoulders and jumping.
Oh yes! Just look at what a kangaroo can do!

Quote:
Humans can generate a LOT of forward momentum, and have dense, bony, club-like feet.
Different physiological structures mean different type of movement by different body parts which leads to different types of kicking.

Quote:
A vargr probably CAN dribble a soccer ball with his feet, but I doubt he'd make a good distance or goal kicker. On the other hand, he'd be an ace rubgy front-liner...
Rugby would be a wonderful sport for the Vargr. I'd be surprised if they hadn't developed something very similar to it.


Regards,
Bill
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  #28  
Old June 23rd, 2009, 10:44 PM
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Originally Posted by aramis View Post
A Vargr's knee can't generate the force needed to effectively knee someon in the testes; the moment arm is too short. On the other paw, they shure can rend your belly by grabbing your shoulders and jumping.
This is just plain speculative, the movement arm may or may not be able to generate 'appropriate' force - either way, I'll let you be the guinea pig for that test. My advice - wear a cup.

I keep hearing about these rending claws that Vargr possess, and frankly I don't know any details about the matter except that we can assume they have fingernails and toenails like that of terran canines.
Vargr operate sensitive and complicated equipment and tools, they wear clothing, they wear vacc-suits; it would seem to me they would routinely manicure those nails down so they don't become a detriment. It's not like those things are designed to be weapons.
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  #29  
Old June 23rd, 2009, 11:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kawaresksenjajok View Post
This is just plain speculative, the movement arm may or may not be able to generate 'appropriate' force - either way, I'll let you be the guinea pig for that test.
But if it may or may not be true, then it is true. The original description of the Vargr says so. If you want to contradict that, it's up to you to show that it can't possibly be true.


Hans
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  #30  
Old June 24th, 2009, 02:30 AM
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"it would seem to me they would routinely manicure those nails down "

just like human women keep their nails trimmed down rather than artificially exaggerating them ?

"Vargr operate sensitive and complicated equipment and tools"

if human females can operate in current society with "false nails", I'm sure any species that has claws etc naturally occuring would have adapted their technological society to cope with their existence. Traveller races are not the David Brin "uplift" races .... traveller "terran" races like the Vargr evolved and grew into their technology over millenia

Last edited by Peter Schutze; June 24th, 2009 at 02:34 AM..
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