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In My Traveller Universe Detail what parts of Traveller you do (or don't) use in your campaign.

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Old February 7th, 2007, 11:34 AM
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I'd be interested in other peoples' conception of how Imperial Marine units would be configured in your Traveller universe. While it's entirely in keeping with the style of the OTU, I can't help but think that a 57th century Marine battalion, for example, looks an awful like a 21st century marine unit. What do you think is missing from a true TL F setting? Should it be more like the Mobile Infantry from Starship Troopers? Include robots?
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Old February 7th, 2007, 11:54 AM
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Yes and yes. I can't answer what a TL-F force should look like; I barely know what a TL-7/8 force looks like!

IMTU, they receive both Rifle-1 and Vacc-1 along with Cutlass-1 (no way is any proper space military going to send its grunts out armed with swords, not when the enemy has FGMPs!).
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Old February 7th, 2007, 01:14 PM
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Given the weapons at TL F - I see manuever (combat infantry) units in battledress with a squad being used the way a tank company is used today.

Non BD units would be support elements - including MPs, mechanics, artillery (or ortillery depending), pilots, cooks, engineers, etc - all trained to function as light infantry (riflemen) if needed but with other specialties as well. The tooth to tail ratio (combat to non-combat) will likely be very low by our standards (just judging from the historical trend - as tech goes up, support needs per combatant go up as well.)

I also agree that the 57th century marine will be highly skilled. Rifleman 1 is a must. Probably communications 1 as well. Cutlass 1 for tradition (or not depending on YTU) A specialty skill will also be a must (selected by branch / assignment). Most true combat marines will be battle dress trained in a TL F force. Those that aren't will be trained in Ortillery, Commando ops, piloting (grav, fighter, or ships boat) or some similar specialized combat skill.
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Old February 7th, 2007, 01:39 PM
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The way I see it (based on LBB4), Imperial Marine "line" infantry would be battledressed and equipped with grav-belts; the primary armament would be FGMP-14's so the default skill should probably be High Energy Weapons rather than combat Rifleman. Only non-battledressed marines (the various support arms listed by SGB) would probably be trained in the Combat Rifleman by default/

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Originally posted by SGB - Steve B:
Given the weapons at TL F - I see manuever (combat infantry) units in battledress with a squad being used the way a tank company is used today.

Given the grav-belts which are probably issued to Imperial Marines, I could eaily see manuever (combat infantry) units in battledress with a squad being used the way a group (wing?) of helicopters is used today.
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Old February 7th, 2007, 02:33 PM
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Quote:
Given the grav-belts which are probably issued to Imperial Marines, I could eaily see manuever (combat infantry) units in battledress with a squad being used the way a group (wing?) of helicopters is used today. [/QB]
One of the things I was wondering was whether or not a squad, nominally 8 people today, wouldn't be treated as the equivalent of a tank platoon (nominally four armored vehicles) in the TL F setting. I guess a lot depends on how effective you see battledress/fusion weapon equipped troops as being.

And what kind of air support are we talking about at that TL? Autonomous 'smart drones'? Manned gunships? (Or is the answer simply, whatever is coolest ?).
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Old February 7th, 2007, 03:58 PM
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What do you think is missing from a true TL F setting?
hard to say. it's like ancient romans wondering what a 21st century legion would look like. "every man will have a horse!"

probably a lot more psy- and psycho-war - chemicals, sonics, terror ('scuse me, "shock and awe"). a lot more attacks on materials - gasket reducers, corrosives, insidious chemicals, emp, sensor opaquers (a paintball gun works real well against someone wearing a face plate). paint grenades, laser grenades, emp grenades, robot grenades, maybe gravity grenades. probably an extreme reliance on drones and artillery of whatever sort - hard to argue with a man who has a factor 9 meson gun on-call. and when you go that far back pretty soon there's no room for infantry, it's all decided by ships, and the only role infantry has is in the peripherial corners where the ships can't reach or are too destructive.

nah. by tech F there won't be marines, just a navy and a few ship's troops.
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Old February 7th, 2007, 04:12 PM
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I'd say manned G-unships replacing both MBTs and heavy helicopter gunships. The Imperium isn't really into drones (outside of surveilance roles) and combat robots - that's a Zhodani territory [img]smile.gif[/img]
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Old February 7th, 2007, 05:02 PM
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Yeah but look at what their main missions are supposed to be according to Book 4 - police actions, raids, ship troops, counter-insurgency/internal security.

Much of this would be wildly inappropriate for battle-dressed guys with FGMP-14's.

Think about Iraq where tank crews are having to serve as infantry because tanks are not much use for internal security and counter insurgency.

Except during the Fifth Frontier War even Marines will be in a very similar situation - full battle kit is more a last resort than in daily use.

In chargen terms what you really need is a sensible rule about the combat skill cascades that doesn't pretend that there is no similarity whatever between pointing a rifle and a laser or hi-energy weapon at a target.

I just houserule that all gun combat skills default to half level for all other types of guns (obviously you might vary that for an archaic arquebus user picking up an FGMP-14).

Also rule that Marines get ALL the skills in Book 4 they are qualified to roll for at level-0 and that this is enough for effective use.

This solves the Marines without Battledress problem or hi-energy weapons problem.
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Old February 7th, 2007, 05:32 PM
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If you're cutting loose from the OTU entirely then Forever Peace by joe Haldeman has wars conducted by robot drones remotely controlled by soldiers fighting from within a drug-induced VR environment many miles away from the action.

The same idea also crops up in Ken MacLeod's Star Fraction where the battledress suits are empty shells controlled by video-troopers safe in a bunker somewhere.

The T4 book Emperor's Arsenal also replaces regular battledress at TL-13+ in favour of flying armoured one-man battle pods - which while it completely screws Traveller canon actually makes a lot of sense at least on the battlefield.

The same book also has a nice selection of non-lethal weapons like thud-guns, hazers and flashers which I think would be heavily used in internal security ops as main battle weapons pose greater collateral damage threats.
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Old February 7th, 2007, 07:19 PM
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Much depends on the rules. For example in CT there is little advantage to Battledress over Combat Armor. In T20, there is lots to say in favor of BD over Combat Armor.

The big thing missing is a suppressive fire weapon. There isn't the equivalent to a Squad Automatic Weapon or Machinegun.

IMTU, (T20 rules) there are three branches of Marines. Line Marines (By far the most common), Ground Forces Marines (Used for Planetary security and similar missions where the Army isn't available or it wouldn't be politically a good idea to deploy an Army unit for one reason or another.) and Marine Commandos.

Ground Forces Marines are task organized and may have vehicles, such as APC's and may be equipped to a level other than TL-E+ (depending on era). These units are formed specifically for the task at hand and most Marines that serve there spend most of their career there. There are usually Marine NCO's and some officers, specifically senior officers that are transferred in from Line units. During the course of a deployment there will probably be some transfers out. (Though if you started there you are likely to need additional training to go to a "Normal" fleet unit.)
Fleet Marines serve aboard Starships, serve as Starport security (Usually as a Quick Reaction force leaving the mundane tasks to contracted locals, and Embassy Guards.) These are the Marines normally encountered and what most citizens and enemies of the Imperium think of when they think of Marines.

They specialize in rapid strikes from Starships, Boarding Operations, Seizing High Orbitals, etc.

Because of their reliance on Starship transport (After all the Navy would rather carry more missiles or supplies) Fleet Marines are largely light units. Because the environment they are likely to operate in is Vacuum and not on a planetary surface, they also tend to be light and instead of Tanks and traditional armored vehicles they are generally equipped with a specialized Light Fighter. (Multi-purpose makes more sense than specialized vehicles because of both lack of space aboard ship and not knowing where or under what conditions they will be deployed.

Line Marines are organized into a Squad of two 4 man fireteams. (8 men, which happens to be how many are on a Type-T.) Each Fireteam will have 2 marines equipped with Gauss Rifles, one with an FGMP-14 or 15 and one with a Light Tribarrel (Figure 3 Gauss Rifles welded together). Each Marine in the Fireteam is equipped with a special Marine Battledress which includes excellent passive sensors, laser comms, and a dual Grav/Leg drive. The Squad Leader leads the first fireteam and a team leader leads the second fireteam. At least one member of the squad is also trained as a Combat Lifesaver (Not quite a medic but almost.).

Three of these squads form the core of a Fleet Marine Platoon. The platoon will also have a Weapons squad. (Squad Leader and Team Leader with a Gauss Rifle.) This squad will be equipped with a mix of FGMP-14/15s and Tribarrels. (Mission dependent, as many as 6 of one.) The Platoon will have a Platoon Leader, Platoon Sergeant, and a Medic. (Total 35 members the same as the Marine complement of a Kinunir.)

A Company is made up of 3 Platoons, a 15 person Medical section. 4 Light Fighters (Crew of 2 and 1 member of a ground crew.)12 member HQ Section, which includes the Commander, the XO and a First Sergeant. (Total 150 members, the same as the Marine Complement on a AHL.)

I have it figured out to brigade level. [img]smile.gif[/img]
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