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The Fleet Ship designs, strategies, and tactics.

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Old June 3rd, 2003, 04:08 PM
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This is in "The Fleet" forum because I can't think of anywhere else to put it.

Were the Imperial Marines and their technology originally based on the U.S. Marines? If not, then what were they based on?

Hey CotI administrators! This is why we need a section dedicated to adventurers "on the ground!"
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Old June 3rd, 2003, 04:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Jame:
This is in "The Fleet" forum because I can't think of anywhere else to put it.

Were the Imperial Marines and their technology originally based on the U.S. Marines? If not, then what were they based on?

Hey CotI administrators! This is why we need a section dedicated to adventurers "on the ground!"
Marc Miller was in the US Army, so I'd bet there is a fair amount of US influence there.
When Doug Berry, a former US Army NCO, wrote Ground Forces for GURPS:Traveller, he researched traditions from both the US Marine Corps and the British Royal Marines.

I recommend that book regardless of the ruleset you are using. It has a lot of rules independent background material.

As for their tech...Book 1 has Imperial Marines using revolvers.
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Old June 3rd, 2003, 05:29 PM
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The OTU Imperial Marines are not really Marines the WWII. Or should I say that the marines of WWII were the last of the type of marines that I am about to describe.

Alot of players often forget in the grand sweep of the 3I that it is not planets or sectors that make up the Imperium, it is individuals. Out of contact with higher headquarters, with just general operating regulations, any Imperial Commander that can effect a population on the ground is as much the Imperium as Strephon himself. If Capt. von Stern, IN, gets on the ship's intercom and tells his marine force commander to prep for an intervention, he IS the emperor insofar as that system is concerned, and will be for at least two months until his higher headquarters figures out what the hell is going on. Understand, that is the power of a just cruiser commander with a marine infantry company and a squadron of fighters. Now think about the weight that a Rear Admiral commanding a task force centered on a Tigress-class dreadnought would have. Even better, how about the Squadron Admiral of a Battle Rider Squadron (Look Mom! I got a whole SQUADRON of battleships to enforce my whims!)?

Because of the basic fact of interstellar communications, the Imperium is nessessarily decentralized. Any commander invoking Imperial High Law can have an incredible effect on Imperial policy in that sector or subsector. It is for this reason that so many Navy and Marine officers are also nobles. Two chains of command, two possible avenues of consequences, and an increased tie to the principles and faith that holds the IDEAL of the Imperium from citizen to Emperor.

Take that to the next step. A Royal Navy Captain in the eras before reliable radio communications with a Royal Marine company aboard has much the same power. In 1880, the only American official in Alaska was a Coast Guard Cutter commander who happened to be black. He was as much America to the inhabitants of the area as President Grant, and the only thing keeping him to his duty was his oath to the Constitution....

So really, the Teufel-hunden of WWI's Belleau Wood or the China Marines of the Boxer Rebellion are a better template. Hope that helps.
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Old June 3rd, 2003, 08:25 PM
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An aside for those who would pattern their Marines on the Royal Navy's:

In the good old days, when Brittania Ruled the Seas, she ruled them using sailors 'impressed' from waterfront bars, the prisons, merchant vessels (regardless of the flag they sailed under, if you could understand The King's English you were liable to find yourself serving him! One of the main issues in the War of 1812 was British impressment of American sailors). Whaling was critical to industry (prior to petroleum, it was whale oil that lubricated the Industrial Revolution) so British whaling ships and their crews ashore were immune from the press gangs, but anybody else was fair game.

The officers were berthed at the rear of the vessel, the sailors in the 'fore, with the Marines in the middle to prevent mutiny!
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Old June 3rd, 2003, 11:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Zutroi:
An aside for those who would pattern their Marines on the Royal Navy's:

In the good old days, when Brittania Ruled the Seas, she ruled them using sailors 'impressed' from waterfront bars, the prisons, merchant vessels (regardless of the flag they sailed under, if you could understand The King's English you were liable to find yourself serving him! One of the main issues in the War of 1812 was British impressment of American sailors). Whaling was critical to industry (prior to petroleum, it was whale oil that lubricated the Industrial Revolution) so British whaling ships and their crews ashore were immune from the press gangs, but anybody else was fair game.

The officers were berthed at the rear of the vessel, the sailors in the 'fore, with the Marines in the middle to prevent mutiny!
The war of 1812 had more to do with american policy of slavery then with the opression of the shipping. england outlawed slavery at about that time and was as a super power attempting to stop the american slave ships.
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Old June 4th, 2003, 11:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Lord Darkness:
The war of 1812 had more to do with american policy of slavery then with the opression of the shipping. england outlawed slavery at about that time and was as a super power attempting to stop the american slave ships.
I'm not going to touch that one with a ten foot pole (sorry, Vladimir), and I suggest the rest of you ignore it too.


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Old June 4th, 2003, 12:12 PM
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Ain't it funny how half the threads seem to end up political? Yeesh.

Rancke, what did you think of my Marines concept?
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Old June 4th, 2003, 12:29 PM
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Ganidiirsi, I heartily agree about the political nature of many posts. Well, you did answer my question, though. Imperial Marines for CT as more WW1 than WW2 makes sense with the revolver skill (which is why I traded it for an Autopistol skill). Most of my posts, outside of Random Static and maybe The Lone Star, are more technical. Nice to know I can spark debates... [img]graemlins/file_23.gif[/img]
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Old June 4th, 2003, 01:12 PM
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And besides, I LIKE the image of Force Commander Badass von Stern (the Navy Captain's younger brother, of course) entering a enemies ship cutlass in one hand and gauss pistol in the other!

It don't ALL have to be realistic after all. If we really wanted to be stupid about this we could all get out copies of "Aftermath" or "The Morrow Project" and use THEIR combat rules...
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Old June 4th, 2003, 01:27 PM
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I've always assumed that Imperial Marines are inspired by the late 19th century colonial troops, including US Marines, that saw action throughtout the Middle East and Asia. If you've seen the movie THe Wind and the Lion, you know the kind of troops I'm thinking of. Local potnetate does bad things to Imperila citizens, and the Marines land to show him the error of his ways. Just as colonial troops were not above demolishing government buildings to make a point, Imperial Marines won't mind nuking a strongpoint if they have to to get someone's attention. That's why they have so many nukes on their vehicles.

Organizationally, they're usually shown as a fairly standard mech infantry formation (nevermind about Kinnunir's weird platoon; it makes no sense at all). The Marine APC that can all but double as a tank probably owes a lot to some notional "support tank" concepts that were circulating in the West at about the time Traveller first got going. SOme of these involved APCs with tank-caliber guns or with a mix of medium-caliber guns and anti-tank missiles. It makes sense for a uit that will have to fight protracted battles without reinforcement.
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