Traveller Store CotI Features New Posts Mark Forums Read Register


Go Back TravellerRPG.com > Citizens of the Imperium > General Traveller Discussions > In the OTU

In the OTU In the Official Traveller Universe. Any milieux that's been published in any edition. Not for discussion of rules except in reference to how they reflect the OTU

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #91  
Old April 19th, 2021, 10:51 AM
whulorigan's Avatar
whulorigan whulorigan is offline
Count
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Philadelphia
Posts: 2,813
Gallery : 0
Visit whulorigan's Blog
whulorigan Respected Citizenwhulorigan Respected Citizenwhulorigan Respected Citizenwhulorigan Respected Citizenwhulorigan Respected Citizenwhulorigan Respected Citizen
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Condottiere View Post
Which leaves us with the King Marc Bible: what does Tee Five have to say about empty hexes?
There are no empty-hex constraints in T5. (In fact, some of the higher-order FTL-Drives depend on the ability to Jump to/from empty hexes in order to be useful as a drive, due to "scatter" (i.e. increasing imprecision of jump-destination for higher order-of-magnitude drives).
__________________
.



WHULorigan (Wayne)

Lord Richard Elruinn Ilendrick Rhovanion of Rhylanor
Count RhovanionSPIN 2716 Rhylanor A434934-FSir Richard, Knight (Kt)SPIN 2716 Rhylanor A434934-F
MarquisSPIN 0433 Jone B792785-9Sir Richard Elruinn, Knight (Kt)FORN 0727 Dirli C994422-8
Baronet of Jae TellonaSPIN 2814 Jae Tellona A560565-8Knight of Deneb (KD)SPIN 2814 Jae Tellona A560565-8
Baron of the Third ImperiumSPIN 3220 Powaza C787566-5Knight of the Third Imperium (KTI)SPIN 3235 Trin A894A96-F
Knight of the Iridium Throne (KIT)CORE 2419 Sevan A544576-A
Richard Elruinn Rhovanion (TAS Member #0008)SPIN 2716 Rhylanor A434934-F

Other Awards
:
Duke of the Third ImperiumREAV 3209 Kylian BA57742-A
Duke of KhouthCORR 0104 Khouth A8C3999-D
Viscount of AlellSPIN 1706 Alell B56789CA
Baron of ImlaarDENE 2212 Imlaar D677551-6SEH - For Extreme Heroism @ The Battle of Ruby
Baroness of NorthammonDENE 0921 Northammon B764667-AMCGx2 - For Conspicuous Gallantry @ The Assaults on Dinomn & Denotam

Link: Traveller5 Noble Patents Registry
Reply With Quote
  #92  
Old April 19th, 2021, 12:36 PM
whartung whartung is offline
Citizen: SOC-14
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 2,900
Gallery : 0
whartung Citizen+whartung Citizen+whartung Citizen+
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by whulorigan View Post
There are no empty-hex constraints in T5. (In fact, some of the higher-order FTL-Drives depend on the ability to Jump to/from empty hexes in order to be useful as a drive, due to "scatter" (i.e. increasing imprecision of jump-destination for higher order-of-magnitude drives).
I don't recall any empty hex limits in CT either.

Does T5 cover historical jump as well?

The premise of the empty hex jump problem is that it's an attribute of early jump. "Today" it's not a problem. It's not a problem with the jump drive, it's not a J1 problem.

It's a navigation problem of computing the computables on the computer for the computation that drive the jump drive.

It's like the problem isn't that the rifle can't make the 1000 yard shot, the problem is that the shooter can't make the 1000 yard shot.

Also, to be fair, there is no mention of this in JTAS 24 (which I frankly consider the canonical jump reference). But, again, it's not a jump drive problem, and it would only come out in early jump history.

Perhaps empty hex jump is the "longitude" problem with jump. We did fine without it for some time, but got much better once that issue of navigation was solved.

Either way, as a game element, I'm totally fine with it in the ISW period.
Reply With Quote
  #93  
Old April 19th, 2021, 03:12 PM
BackworldTraveller's Avatar
BackworldTraveller BackworldTraveller is offline
Citizen: SOC-12
 
Join Date: May 2020
Location: Epping
Posts: 281
Gallery : 21
Visit BackworldTraveller's Blog
BackworldTraveller Citizen+BackworldTraveller Citizen+
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by whartung View Post
I don't recall any empty hex limits in CT either.

Does T5 cover historical jump as well?

The premise of the empty hex jump problem is that it's an attribute of early jump. "Today" it's not a problem. It's not a problem with the jump drive, it's not a J1 problem.

It's a navigation problem of computing the computables on the computer for the computation that drive the jump drive.

It's like the problem isn't that the rifle can't make the 1000 yard shot, the problem is that the shooter can't make the 1000 yard shot.

Also, to be fair, there is no mention of this in JTAS 24 (which I frankly consider the canonical jump reference). But, again, it's not a jump drive problem, and it would only come out in early jump history.

Perhaps empty hex jump is the "longitude" problem with jump. We did fine without it for some time, but got much better once that issue of navigation was solved.

Either way, as a game element, I'm totally fine with it in the ISW period.
Of course, without a jump-governor, the empty hex problem is fatal!
Reply With Quote
  #94  
Old April 19th, 2021, 05:06 PM
Condottiere Condottiere is offline
Citizen: SOC-14
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Posts: 4,063
Gallery : 0
Condottiere Citizen++Condottiere Citizen++Condottiere Citizen++Condottiere Citizen++Condottiere Citizen++
Default

When I was trying to streamline the ten tonne jump drive, I tried to figure out how how much space the jump governor took and how much it cost.

If I remember correctly, it was a tonne and and add on for Book Two jump drives, though I can't remember where I saw it.

You probably don't need one for a factor one jump drive, since it's only for regulating fuel use.
Reply With Quote
  #95  
Old April 19th, 2021, 05:22 PM
Jetrock Jetrock is offline
Citizen: SOC-7
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 23
Gallery : 0
Jetrock Citizen
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by whartung View Post
Either way, as a game element, I'm totally fine with it in the ISW period.
I'm kind of liking the limitation on jumping to empty hexes during the ISW/2E/Long Night period (presumably the problem gets solved during the Aslan border wars as outlined in Dark Nebula) as I'm progressing from general Long Night info into a specific campaign setting, using some existing Traveller sectors that make reference to events during the Long Night. In this (now non-canon) campaign setting, a formerly hostile and expansionist (subsector-sized) empire established during the Rule of Man and a relatively benevolent planetary federation, who had some fairly nasty shooting wars during the early Twilight phases of the Long Night, were physically separated by two-parsec jumps.

My spin on the setting is, when both empires regressed in technology during the Long Night, they lost Jump-2 technology, which cut off the intervening space between the empire and the federation. Because the result was a cluster of relatively resource-rich worlds on a subsector main, relatively isolated from other systems and hard to reach, piracy dropped to nearly nil. The cluster started to develop into a peaceful, economically successful if informal alliance of worlds, dedicated to collaborative exploration and economic development. This led to a rekindling of scientific curiosity and exploration. Eventually, they rediscover Jump-2 and start expanding, only to realize that the nearby empire has also been consolidating its power and developed a Jump-2 drive of its own--which necessitates expanding in the other direction, to find out if their old homeworlds in that federation are potential allies in a potential fight for which their peaceful scout ships are poorly suited--or whether their worlds survived at all. I'm still trying to work out the details of a TL 9-10-11 based campaign in roughly the 30th Century (Terran), but disallowing jumps into non-star hexes (or, at best, making them an extremely risky proposition) is a concept I hadn't encountered before (guess I'll have to give GT:ISW a more thorough read, as well as other old Traveller fluff I'm digging through and acquring)--but it makes sense to me dramatically, and fills what had otherwise become a plot hole in my campaign setting!
Reply With Quote
  #96  
Old April 19th, 2021, 06:30 PM
Condottiere Condottiere is offline
Citizen: SOC-14
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Posts: 4,063
Gallery : 0
Condottiere Citizen++Condottiere Citizen++Condottiere Citizen++Condottiere Citizen++Condottiere Citizen++
Default

Okay, now I get why the Model One computer keeps getting referred to as technological level five, from Classic High Guard.

At the University of Manchester, a team under the leadership of Tom Kilburn designed and built a machine using the newly developed transistors instead of valves. Initially the only devices available were germanium point-contact transistors, less reliable than the valves they replaced but which consumed far less power.[127] Their first transistorised computer, and the first in the world, was operational by 1953,[128] and a second version was completed there in April 1955.[129] The 1955 version used 200 transistors, 1,300 solid-state diodes, and had a power consumption of 150 watts. However, the machine did make use of valves to generate its 125 kHz clock waveforms and in the circuitry to read and write on its magnetic drum memory, so it was not the first completely transistorized computer.

That distinction goes to the Harwell CADET of 1955,[130] built by the electronics division of the Atomic Energy Research Establishment at Harwell. The design featured a 64-kilobyte magnetic drum memory store with multiple moving heads that had been designed at the National Physical Laboratory, UK. By 1953 this team had transistor circuits operating to read and write on a smaller magnetic drum from the Royal Radar Establishment. The machine used a low clock speed of only 58 kHz to avoid having to use any valves to generate the clock waveforms.[131][130]


If this is the case, I suspect the Apple Watch can be programmed with Jump Control One.
Reply With Quote
  #97  
Old April 19th, 2021, 07:00 PM
Condottiere Condottiere is offline
Citizen: SOC-14
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Posts: 4,063
Gallery : 0
Condottiere Citizen++Condottiere Citizen++Condottiere Citizen++Condottiere Citizen++Condottiere Citizen++
Default

Jump Governor: It is possible to procure a jump governor for ships produced according to Book 2. It allows such a ship to utilize fuel more efficiently; instead of consuming all fuel when performing a jump, regardless of jump number, the ship will consume fuel equal to O.1MJn, where Jn is the actual jump number used, rather than the maximum jump number available. Available at any industrial world with tech level 10 or higher. Cost: Cr300 000. Mass: 1 ton. Ships produced according to this book already have the jump governor as part of their drives.

Finally tracked it down.

Probably integrated by now in all designs from all editions.
Reply With Quote
  #98  
Old April 19th, 2021, 11:14 PM
GypsyComet's Avatar
GypsyComet GypsyComet is offline
Citizen: SOC-14
 
Join Date: May 2001
Posts: 3,839
Gallery : 3
GypsyComet Citizen++GypsyComet Citizen++GypsyComet Citizen++GypsyComet Citizen++
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Condottiere View Post
Probably integrated by now in all designs from all editions.
Yes, for the simple reason that the thirsty jump drive mode is never mentioned again.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jetrock View Post
I'm kind of liking the limitation on jumping to empty hexes during the ISW/2E/Long Night period (presumably the problem gets solved during the Aslan border wars as outlined in Dark Nebula)
As previously noted, it's not that those hexes are truly empty, but that you don't know where the masses that make a jump safer are located. That takes some fairly powerful passive astronomy to remedy. If your two warring clusters were spoiled by having J2 they may not have the necessary navigational ephemera to know where the masses are, and, having come from a Ziru Sirka background, don't have the observational astronomical resources to find new ones. The old data would have aged out while they were in survival mode, as well, so even if they did have that data it is no longer useful.
__________________
We are all playing different games that happen to have the same name.

"Alright. Where did that Beaker get a cred stick?"
(Website down until further notice)
Reply With Quote
  #99  
Old April 19th, 2021, 11:19 PM
tjoneslo tjoneslo is offline
Citizen: SOC-14
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Ferrisburgh, VT, USA
Posts: 2,969
Gallery : 2
Visit tjoneslo's Blog
tjoneslo Citizen+tjoneslo Citizen+tjoneslo Citizen+
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Condottiere View Post
Jump Governor: It is possible to procure a jump governor for ships produced according to Book 2. It allows such a ship to utilize fuel more efficiently; instead of consuming all fuel when performing a jump, regardless of jump number, the ship will consume fuel equal to O.1MJn, where Jn is the actual jump number used, rather than the maximum jump number available. Available at any industrial world with tech level 10 or higher. Cost: Cr300 000. Mass: 1 ton. Ships produced according to this book already have the jump governor as part of their drives.

Finally tracked it down.

Probably integrated by now in all designs from all editions.
https://wiki.travellerrpg.com/Jump_Governor/meta For the full story.
__________________
Archduke of the Solomani Rim - Terra (Solomani Rim 1827)
Duke Akumid - Akumid (Vland 1628)
Marquis Yeremyh - Yeremyh (Solomani Rim 1804)
Marquis Hysyl - Hysyl (Deneb 2425)
Baron Regina - Regina (Spinward Marches 1910)
TAS member - Vipan (Empty Quarter 1038)
Be part of the history of Traveller:

https://wiki.travellerrpg.com/Main_Page
Reply With Quote
  #100  
Old April 20th, 2021, 09:42 AM
Condottiere Condottiere is offline
Citizen: SOC-14
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Posts: 4,063
Gallery : 0
Condottiere Citizen++Condottiere Citizen++Condottiere Citizen++Condottiere Citizen++Condottiere Citizen++
Default

The jump governor was mentioned earlier, and got me thinking that the brute force approach would be simply jumping to any parsec within reach.

That extended to astrogation requiring a faster than light, to almost instantaneous, information about the gravitational fields at the destination to prohibit execution of the jump.

Without that instantaneous feedback, it becomes more a discrete decision as to whether the risks involved are worthwhile the attempt, rather than the inability to execute.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Tags
campaign, imtu, long night

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
The Long Night mike wightman In My Traveller Universe 35 January 16th, 2017 10:43 PM
Why the long night? DangerousThing The Lone Star 107 June 20th, 2012 10:47 AM
The Long Night Mithras The Lone Star 25 February 5th, 2009 09:07 AM
Why Not a Long Night? vutpakdi Traveller: The New Era 7 September 3rd, 2003 11:04 AM

This website and its contents are copyright ©2010- Far Future Enterprises. All rights reserved. Traveller is a registered trademark of Far Future Enterprises .
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright (c) 2010-2013, Far Future Enterprises. All Rights Reserved.