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In My Traveller Universe Detail what parts of Traveller you do (or don't) use in your campaign.

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  #121  
Old April 25th, 2021, 12:46 PM
whartung whartung is offline
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Originally Posted by Werner View Post
I believe the first four tech levels after 0 are agrarian, that is most people make a living by operating farms, this doesn't change Roman society very much, slavery operates all the way to the beginning of the 20th century.
But all that is assuming that the Roman society doesn't collapse like it did before.

Even with the promise of accelerated TL growth, it's just a flat out long time for a society to last, and the TL changes promote rapid change, not just in the society, but outside of it.

I'm no historian, but societal collapse is pretty abrupt, all things considered. And all of the large societies have collapsed in some dramatic way at some point.

And then, simply, even if it did survive, would the society have the political will to drive these changes and move off in to the stars.
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  #122  
Old April 25th, 2021, 12:53 PM
Werner Werner is offline
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Originally Posted by whartung View Post
But all that is assuming that the Roman society doesn't collapse like it did before.

Even with the promise of accelerated TL growth, it's just a flat out long time for a society to last, and the TL changes promote rapid change, not just in the society, but outside of it.

I'm no historian, but societal collapse is pretty abrupt, all things considered. And all of the large societies have collapsed in some dramatic way at some point.

And then, simply, even if it did survive, would the society have the political will to drive these changes and move off in to the stars.
The Western Roman Empire lasted until the 5th century, the Eastern Roman Empire lasted until the 15th century, when it was conquered by Turks with cannons, it was also known as the Byzantine Empire. The Roman Empire split in two because of the difficulty in communicating over the width of the empire, a problem which gets solved by the telegraph and telephone at tech level 4.
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  #123  
Old April 25th, 2021, 05:12 PM
Krikkitone Krikkitone is offline
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Originally Posted by Werner View Post
The tech levels 1 through 4 are pretty much the same from the farming perspective:

TECHNOLOGICAL LEVELS
Digit Description
1 = Bronze Age to Middle Ages
2 = circa 1400 to 1700
3 = circa 1700 to 1860
4 = circa 1860 to 1900

As far as the farmer was concerned farming was back breaking labor with the assistance of farm animals, most of the technological improvements were in the field of warfare. If you were raising chickens of planting crops, it didn't make much difference to you whether the soldiers of the time were swinging swords, firing muskets, rifles, or Gatling Guns, farming was pretty much the same and unmechanized, people mostly traveled on foot or on a horse, that didn't change much until tech level 5 was reached. In tech level 4 you had steam trains, but you still had to walk to the station to get on one, the invention of the telegraph and telephone did allow for faster communication, but you still had to stand behind you plow horse to till the fields. Farming was pretty safe up until 1900, and even at tech level 5 plenty of people still farmed the old fashioned way, horses and cars coexisted on the roads for a few decades in the early 20th century, at tech level 6 people started living in suburbs and started making use of the automobile to commute to work, better transportation allowed for the creation of larger more automated farms and thus fewer farmers. I think by the time tech level 6 is reached you start having upheavals, and the Romand did love road building.

I think you can have advancement in tech levels up to 5 without major disruptions in the way people earn a living, which was that of yeoman farming, the single family farm where people grow their own food, and use their surpluses in crop production to trade for stuff they cannot make themselves. In tech levels 1 through 4 the Roman peasant is going to be growing his own food, riding on a horse or walking on his own two feet, not much changes for him unless he is going to be doing military service.
There was a major agricultural revolution in 1400-1700 (TL 2-3) not any new machinery but new practices.
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  #124  
Old April 25th, 2021, 07:21 PM
Werner Werner is offline
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Here is a sample of Roman colonies:
Star Namex (ly)y (ly)z (ly)z (pc)Spect TypeLumin L/L⊙Planet OrbitMoon OrbitWorldUWP
Sol14.6717.9314.675G2 V11MercuryF300664-E
2VenusF8B0764-F
3TerraA8679A4-F
60LunaF200764-F
4MarsF430864-F
5Asteroid Belt
6JupiterLG (70,000 km)
7SaturnLG (60,000 km)
8UranusSG (30,000 km)
8.5NeptuneSG (30,000 km)
Proxima Centauri C13.0716.7310.873M5e V0.00006C520721-5
1Imhotep
1 moon
2Rock Planet
1 moonLG (100,000 km)
3Asteroid Belt

Just testing out the Tables here. I got a bunch more, but there are limits on table size, so I am just seeing how they appear for the time being and will debug them later. As you can see I am going 3D with the charts. I used a random system generator with random names, some of the rows are misaligned and I will fix that later.
The Roman's don't want to offend any of the gods Mercury, Venus, Diana, and Mars but giving their associated celestial bodies Substandard Spaceports, also each rock world listed above has a temple to the god it was named after, there is a temple to Diana on the Moon for instance, they don't understand why Venus has such a horrible planet, but they built a temple to her on the planet's surface under a dome at great expense anyway.

Last edited by Werner; April 25th, 2021 at 07:35 PM..
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  #125  
Old May 12th, 2021, 09:07 AM
Davik Davik is offline
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Originally Posted by whartung View Post
Even were the traveller to stay healthy and live a normal life (say, to 80), I think he would be amazed how stymied progress really was even after 60 years. Leaps would be made, but, slower than they perhaps might enjoy.
Were I that time traveller, I'd use my 80 years a few weeks at a time, skipping ahead a decade or two between each... to provide longterm guidance.
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  #126  
Old May 15th, 2021, 09:06 AM
Werner Werner is offline
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Were I that time traveller, I'd use my 80 years a few weeks at a time, skipping ahead a decade or two between each... to provide longterm guidance.
The Roman's might have a few surprises for you after a multi-decade absence. I assume, you'd be using the Scout ship's maneuver drive to fly around in circles at near the speed of light for time dialation, this time dialation only applies to the Roman's universe, not to the OTU, as that is in synch with the passage of time in the Scout ship, or the starship's chronometer. So let's assume the time traveler steals the Starship in 1103 imperial and arrives in the Roman timeline in 113 AD.

The Starship can accelerate for 6 months in total, if it uses a full fuel tank of hydrogen jump fuel plus power plant fuel, of those 6 months, it can use 3 months to accelerate reaching a velocity of 145,152 km/sec or about 48.3% of the speed of light and another 3 months to slow down again, it would take 9.1 years to reach Alpha Centauri in this universe and 9.1 years, after refueling at Proxima Centauri c, to return. Assume the ship is equipped with 4 low berths, the time Traveller gets in one for the trip to Alpha centauri and the trip back. 18.2 years pass in both the Roman Universe and the OTU, there is not much time dialation at 48.3% of the speed of light, so the time Traveller uses the low berth to avoid aging, so he arrives back in Rome in the year 131 AD, and meanwhile in the OTU its 1121. He can do this 5 more times, I suppose he will have to jump to the OTU for maintenance after that first trip. Perhaps 18 years later they won't be looking for that stolen time ship as much.
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  #127  
Old June 22nd, 2021, 11:08 AM
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I seem to remember a sci fi novel along these lines that I read a long, long time ago and can't remember the title.

Basically, it was the "Grandfather" theme where aliens abducted an entire legion (the Ninth?) to use as low-tech mercenaries because of some interstellar law forbidding uneven tech levels while meddling in the affairs of planets and worlds.

So drop ships would bring down the legion to do their thing throughout the novel's galaxy.

Can't remember much more than that, though.
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  #128  
Old June 22nd, 2021, 11:34 AM
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  #129  
Old June 22nd, 2021, 11:36 AM
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THAT WAS IT!!!!!

yea, and Hammer's Slammers was in head too as I was thinking about it but I didn't know why - David Drake, same author, duh!
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  #130  
Old June 24th, 2021, 02:00 AM
kilemall kilemall is offline
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Time to drop that CA TV commercial in, to give a look at what a 2th century Roman Empire might look like.....


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vO87vtK7kQY
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