Traveller Store CotI Features New Posts Mark Forums Read Register


Go Back TravellerRPG.com > Citizens of the Imperium > General Traveller Discussions > In the OTU

In the OTU In the Official Traveller Universe. Any milieux that's been published in any edition. Not for discussion of rules except in reference to how they reflect the OTU

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #101  
Old April 20th, 2021, 10:53 PM
Grav_Moped Grav_Moped is offline
Citizen: SOC-14
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Posts: 1,262
Gallery : 9
Grav_Moped Citizen+Grav_Moped Citizen+
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by BackworldTraveller View Post
Of course, without a jump-governor, the empty hex problem is fatal!
Not necessarily. Just carry fuel for two jumps (and that might include twice the four-week power plant allocation).

In retrospect (though I haven't seen any confirmation of this), it's why the Type Y Yacht has fuel for two consecutive jumps, and why Annic Nova has two separate Jump Drives.
Reply With Quote
  #102  
Old April 21st, 2021, 09:49 AM
Baroun Tardis Baroun Tardis is offline
Baronet
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 20
Gallery : 0
Visit Baroun Tardis's Blog
Baroun Tardis Citizen
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Condottiere View Post
Okay, now I get why the Model One computer keeps getting referred to as technological level five, from Classic High Guard.

At the University of Manchester, a team under the leadership of Tom Kilburn designed and built a machine using the newly developed transistors instead of valves. Initially the only devices available were germanium point-contact transistors, less reliable than the valves they replaced but which consumed far less power.[127] Their first transistorised computer, and the first in the world, was operational by 1953,[128] and a second version was completed there in April 1955.[129] The 1955 version used 200 transistors, 1,300 solid-state diodes, and had a power consumption of 150 watts. However, the machine did make use of valves to generate its 125 kHz clock waveforms and in the circuitry to read and write on its magnetic drum memory, so it was not the first completely transistorized computer.

That distinction goes to the Harwell CADET of 1955,[130] built by the electronics division of the Atomic Energy Research Establishment at Harwell. The design featured a 64-kilobyte magnetic drum memory store with multiple moving heads that had been designed at the National Physical Laboratory, UK. By 1953 this team had transistor circuits operating to read and write on a smaller magnetic drum from the Royal Radar Establishment. The machine used a low clock speed of only 58 kHz to avoid having to use any valves to generate the clock waveforms.[131][130]


If this is the case, I suspect the Apple Watch can be programmed with Jump Control One.
Apple watch handling Jump-1.... yeah....
Spent some time reading NASA's familiarization documents for Gemini and the Space Shuttle and ISS.
The average cell phone has more computing mojo.
For example, the storage for the Shuttle's software (OS, applications) was 600kb.
This did get upgraded later, but still....
Reply With Quote
  #103  
Old April 21st, 2021, 11:05 AM
BackworldTraveller's Avatar
BackworldTraveller BackworldTraveller is offline
Citizen: SOC-12
 
Join Date: May 2020
Location: Epping
Posts: 281
Gallery : 21
Visit BackworldTraveller's Blog
BackworldTraveller Citizen+BackworldTraveller Citizen+
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Condottiere View Post
Okay, now I get why the Model One computer keeps getting referred to as technological level five, from Classic High Guard.

At the University of Manchester, a team under the leadership of Tom Kilburn designed and built a machine using the newly developed transistors instead of valves. Initially the only devices available were germanium point-contact transistors, less reliable than the valves they replaced but which consumed far less power.[127] Their first transistorised computer, and the first in the world, was operational by 1953,[128] and a second version was completed there in April 1955.[129] The 1955 version used 200 transistors, 1,300 solid-state diodes, and had a power consumption of 150 watts. However, the machine did make use of valves to generate its 125 kHz clock waveforms and in the circuitry to read and write on its magnetic drum memory, so it was not the first completely transistorized computer.

That distinction goes to the Harwell CADET of 1955,[130] built by the electronics division of the Atomic Energy Research Establishment at Harwell. The design featured a 64-kilobyte magnetic drum memory store with multiple moving heads that had been designed at the National Physical Laboratory, UK. By 1953 this team had transistor circuits operating to read and write on a smaller magnetic drum from the Royal Radar Establishment. The machine used a low clock speed of only 58 kHz to avoid having to use any valves to generate the clock waveforms.[131][130]


If this is the case, I suspect the Apple Watch can be programmed with Jump Control One.
One of my university lecturer's first jobs was to push a shopping-trolley like affair up and down the racks of the computer to swap out the valves...When he said he started IN computers he really meant it!

The computer concerned could be out performed by a Cassio Watch by the 1980s. Apple Watches are Waaaaay more sophisticated.

Except of course, the majority of computers at that time were the PEOPLE who checked that the machine had the right answer!
Reply With Quote
  #104  
Old April 21st, 2021, 11:28 AM
Condottiere Condottiere is offline
Citizen: SOC-14
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Posts: 4,063
Gallery : 0
Condottiere Citizen++Condottiere Citizen++Condottiere Citizen++Condottiere Citizen++Condottiere Citizen++
Default

This would be where you shoehorn in the human element in astrogation.
Reply With Quote
  #105  
Old April 21st, 2021, 01:22 PM
coliver988's Avatar
coliver988 coliver988 is offline
Baron
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Asheville
Posts: 1,755
Gallery : 111
Visit coliver988's Blog
coliver988 Citizen++coliver988 Citizen++coliver988 Citizen++coliver988 Citizen++
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Baroun Tardis View Post
Apple watch handling Jump-1.... yeah....
Spent some time reading NASA's familiarization documents for Gemini and the Space Shuttle and ISS.
The average cell phone has more computing mojo.
For example, the storage for the Shuttle's software (OS, applications) was 600kb.
This did get upgraded later, but still....
It was also older equipment that had layers of radiation protection and other things. Circuits are not great with radiation...

Pretty sure things are better/more up to date now, but if I recall it took years to certify computers for space use.

Anyway, a b it of history here for computers in space: https://www.bbvaopenmind.com/en/arti...e-exploration/
__________________
Mostly lurking about...CT is still my favorite with T5 as a neat tool box to plunder.


Duke of The Solomani RimLANGELOS A4249A6-FLangelos Write Up Alpha
Baron, IpkurIpkur C564543-9Ipkur Write Up Alpha
Knight of the Third Imperium [x2]Rhylanor A434934-FIkuna E000410-A
MCG For Conspicuous GallantryThe Assault On Alellhttps://github.com/COliver988/Traveller
Travellers Aid Society 2798Dudid B510526-9http://traveller-ct.blogspot.com/
Reply With Quote
  #106  
Old April 21st, 2021, 02:27 PM
G. Kashkanun Anderson's Avatar
G. Kashkanun Anderson G. Kashkanun Anderson is offline
Citizen: SOC-13
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Frogtown
Posts: 915
Gallery : 4
G. Kashkanun Anderson Citizen
Default

Catching up a little bit:

Quote:
Originally Posted by GypsyComet View Post
An interesting argument. I will hold to my statement that the borders were leaky, though. Some traffic was flowing across those borders even as they supposedly contracted.
I agree with you, and I never said it was an either/or situation. The Yileans benefited from full membership in the Ziru Sirka, and they benefited again by using what they learned to forge a sizable rump empire out of the crumbling remains.

Keep in mind, however, that stories of 'leaking' technology are told from the perspective of the Ziru Sirka, and the Vilani have an exceptionally rigid concept of intellectual property rights. If they invented a technology, they are the only legitimate owners of it; anyone else is either a licensee or a thief. The Yileans and Bwaps were almost certainly regarded as licensees, while the Vargr, Terrans and more radical Vilani breakaways (Sindalians, for example) were thieves.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mike wightman View Post
There is one problem with invoking the Luriani - they are not CT canon, and nor are they unique canon in that there are at least three different versions of them...
Well, they are canon, regardless of which edition they showed up in. Traveller canon, according to The Powers That Be, works backwards from the most recent edition, so the -4100 contact between the Luriani and the Zhodani stands, as that has never been superceded.

I bring this up not to pick squabble over canon, but to allow me to note the interesting fact (at least to me) that the Zhodani are officially recorded as making initial contact with the Vilani in -2000, over 2000 years after they first learned of their existence. Perhaps even more interesting is the fact that -2000 is just after declaration of the founding of the Rule of Man in -2004, meaning that the Zhodani waited until after the Ziru Sirka was no longer in the picture before letting the other major human races know of their existence.

Or I suppose it could be that -2000 is just the date that knowledge of the existence of the Zhodani first leaked out from formerly proprietary First Imperium Bureau (Makhidkarun) sources. Makhidkarun does often come off as the most insular and secretive of the three former bureaux.
Reply With Quote
  #107  
Old April 21st, 2021, 02:27 PM
G. Kashkanun Anderson's Avatar
G. Kashkanun Anderson G. Kashkanun Anderson is offline
Citizen: SOC-13
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Frogtown
Posts: 915
Gallery : 4
G. Kashkanun Anderson Citizen
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by mike wightman View Post
The Terrans had jump 3 for a thousand years before the events of the exploration of the Dark Nebula would lead to empty hex jump math.
That only points to when deep space jump techniques were invented in Dark Nebula Sector; it does not establish that nobody else had figured it out elsewhere in Charted Space. Others, including the Solomani, could have come up with it in any one of the shrinking pockets of technological civilization scattered throughout former imperial space, and nobody else more than a dozen parsecs away or so would be any the wiser for it. Information exchange travels by jump, and the literature makes it abundantly clear that jump travel had completely broken down by -1526 ('9pm'), the early dark of the Long Night.

We also do not know how long outsiders like the Zhodani, Vargr and Hivers have been able to do it. The Zhodani certainly have strong impetus to figure it out (the Core Expeditions), and if they had gotten it down, then the Vargr likely swiped it from them with the rest of the jump tech that they stole. And if the Vargr had it, then it probably made it to the former imperial worlds they were harassing in what was once Makhidkarun space.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Condottiere View Post
If this is the case, I suspect the Apple Watch can be programmed with Jump Control One.
You are making the assumption that the algorithms required to calculate jump are solvable by the kind of computers that are ubiquitous today. If jump navigation requires something like quantum gravity modeling, n-body interaction predictions or brute force, hendecadimensional, random walk route calculations, then your Apple watch is not going to be able to cut it, because there's not enough time in the universe for a classical computer of any power to do it. For that, you would need a quantum computer.

And at the moment, there's no indication that you could ever build a quantum computer small enough to fit on a desktop. The insulation requirements to keep the qbits isolated and error free alone could account for a lot of the displacement requirements of the rigs that Traveller starships run on.
Reply With Quote
  #108  
Old April 21st, 2021, 02:45 PM
Condottiere Condottiere is offline
Citizen: SOC-14
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Posts: 4,063
Gallery : 0
Condottiere Citizen++Condottiere Citizen++Condottiere Citizen++Condottiere Citizen++Condottiere Citizen++
Default

So this would be an alternate timeline, like Batman the Animated Series, where Turing invents the quantum computer to decode the Enigma machines.

I can deal with a steampunk aesthetic.
Reply With Quote
  #109  
Old April 22nd, 2021, 12:40 AM
GypsyComet's Avatar
GypsyComet GypsyComet is offline
Citizen: SOC-14
 
Join Date: May 2001
Posts: 3,839
Gallery : 3
GypsyComet Citizen++GypsyComet Citizen++GypsyComet Citizen++GypsyComet Citizen++
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by G. Kashkanun Anderson View Post
Or I suppose it could be that -2000 is just the date that knowledge of the existence of the Zhodani first leaked out from formerly proprietary First Imperium Bureau (Makhidkarun) sources. Makhidkarun does often come off as the most insular and secretive of the three former bureaux.
Cue the recommendation to read Agent of the Imperium and its additional chapter, for those who haven't yet.
__________________
We are all playing different games that happen to have the same name.

"Alright. Where did that Beaker get a cred stick?"
(Website down until further notice)
Reply With Quote
  #110  
Old April 22nd, 2021, 07:56 AM
whulorigan's Avatar
whulorigan whulorigan is offline
Count
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Philadelphia
Posts: 2,813
Gallery : 0
Visit whulorigan's Blog
whulorigan Respected Citizenwhulorigan Respected Citizenwhulorigan Respected Citizenwhulorigan Respected Citizenwhulorigan Respected Citizenwhulorigan Respected Citizen
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by GypsyComet View Post
Cue the recommendation to read Agent of the Imperium and its additional chapter, for those who haven't yet.
To what are you referring when you say: "Its additional chapter"?
__________________
.



WHULorigan (Wayne)

Lord Richard Elruinn Ilendrick Rhovanion of Rhylanor
Count RhovanionSPIN 2716 Rhylanor A434934-FSir Richard, Knight (Kt)SPIN 2716 Rhylanor A434934-F
MarquisSPIN 0433 Jone B792785-9Sir Richard Elruinn, Knight (Kt)FORN 0727 Dirli C994422-8
Baronet of Jae TellonaSPIN 2814 Jae Tellona A560565-8Knight of Deneb (KD)SPIN 2814 Jae Tellona A560565-8
Baron of the Third ImperiumSPIN 3220 Powaza C787566-5Knight of the Third Imperium (KTI)SPIN 3235 Trin A894A96-F
Knight of the Iridium Throne (KIT)CORE 2419 Sevan A544576-A
Richard Elruinn Rhovanion (TAS Member #0008)SPIN 2716 Rhylanor A434934-F

Other Awards
:
Duke of the Third ImperiumREAV 3209 Kylian BA57742-A
Duke of KhouthCORR 0104 Khouth A8C3999-D
Viscount of AlellSPIN 1706 Alell B56789CA
Baron of ImlaarDENE 2212 Imlaar D677551-6SEH - For Extreme Heroism @ The Battle of Ruby
Baroness of NorthammonDENE 0921 Northammon B764667-AMCGx2 - For Conspicuous Gallantry @ The Assaults on Dinomn & Denotam

Link: Traveller5 Noble Patents Registry
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Tags
campaign, imtu, long night

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
The Long Night mike wightman In My Traveller Universe 35 January 16th, 2017 10:43 PM
Why the long night? DangerousThing The Lone Star 107 June 20th, 2012 10:47 AM
The Long Night Mithras The Lone Star 25 February 5th, 2009 09:07 AM
Why Not a Long Night? vutpakdi Traveller: The New Era 7 September 3rd, 2003 11:04 AM

This website and its contents are copyright ©2010- Far Future Enterprises. All rights reserved. Traveller is a registered trademark of Far Future Enterprises .
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright (c) 2010-2013, Far Future Enterprises. All Rights Reserved.