Traveller Store CotI Features New Posts Mark Forums Read Register


Go Back TravellerRPG.com > Citizens of the Imperium > Cepheus Engine > Cepheus General

Cepheus General General discussion of Cepheus Engine products.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #11  
Old July 27th, 2017, 02:02 PM
McPerth's Avatar
McPerth McPerth is offline
Citizen: SOC-14
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Barcelona
Posts: 6,649
Gallery : 0
Visit McPerth's Blog
McPerth has disabled reputation
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chaos View Post
So we could replace ABCD with:
- a Port Rating, similar to the Starport Rating (A through E plus X) in Traveller
- a Reach level (using elements of 2300´s Area and Transportation codes) representing how far around the port it can draw resources and products of outlying settlements, farms, mines etc, and how easy it is to travel overland from the port
- a Position level representing the position, or lack thereof, of the port in the long-distance trade network, to reflect how easy it is to find products of far-away places (or a supply of resources from far-away places to make local products with) in the port
... and what else?
IMHO, this limits too much the settings to maritime ones, ignoring the inland posible adventures. Of course Traveller is set in an environ where ports are important, but in many intresting historical settings they will not be so.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MichaelSTee View Post
I look forward to seeing what you do with Zephyr Engine! I noted in another thread that I thought the Barbarian career should be removed and replaced with a number of low-tech careers, as "Barbarian" to me means a nomadic or semi-nomadic lifestyle, like the Mongols or the Indians of North America, not like Aztecs, Incas, or the Pharaohs' Egyptians.
Barbarian does not always mean nomadic. IITC, in RQ (not sure about what versión) the equivalent to a medieval European Knight was a Barbarian Warrior...
__________________
Duke of ShaiaVland 3215 B64A998-E
Marquis of Ashtagz Tyui SR 1818C548786-8
SEH for actions in Extolay

I'm not afraid about bullets, what scares me is the speed at which they're incoming.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old July 27th, 2017, 02:29 PM
Chaos Chaos is offline
Citizen: SOC-12
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Frankfurt, Germany
Posts: 489
Gallery : 0
Chaos Citizen
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by McPerth View Post
IMHO, this limits too much the settings to maritime ones, ignoring the inland posible adventures. Of course Traveller is set in an environ where ports are important, but in many intresting historical settings they will not be so.
Good point about inland adventures. I´m not sure if the codes limit anything.

We have one digit describing port facilities. Inland cities don´t have ports, unless they´re on navigable rivers, like Paris or Cologne or London are. However there is no "land equivalent" of a port that would need to be described - at least none that requires the sort of infrastructure as port facilities.
We also have one digit describing local trade - how many resources and how much rural production, such as it is, a city has access to. I.e. how much agricultural produce, metals, gemstones, timber, furs, fish or whatever that is locally produce will be for sale in the city?
Then we have one digit describing long distance trade - and nothing says long-distance trade has to be by sea. A city on the Silk Road in the middle of Central Asia would have a high value in that digit, too.

We do not have anything in the code, so far, describing the presence and quality of facilities like inns, stables, warehouses and their supporting trades (like farriers or porters or moneylenders or for that matter prostitutes) that would be of interest to passing traders.
But then, such things tend to develop whereever there is demand for them, so in general the number and quality of these services would be roughly proportionate to the amount of long distance trade in the city - just like I would expect the amount of craftsmen and artisans who make a living processing and refining local goods into something more valuable (say, weavers turning local wool into cloth) to be proportionate to the amount of local trade.
Any cases in which the above expectation does not come true would probably be more easily dealt with by trade codes than by extra digits in the profile.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old July 27th, 2017, 02:34 PM
pendragonman's Avatar
pendragonman pendragonman is offline
Margrave
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Wichita, Kansas
Posts: 2,808
Gallery : 0
Visit pendragonman's Blog
pendragonman Citizen+pendragonman Citizen+pendragonman Citizen+
Default

Maybe the "port" code could actually denote the commercial market development?

After all, a seaside marketplace of great development would clearly have a good port facility but an inland one could have a developed "paved" road nexus.
__________________
"Be polite, be professional, but have a plan to kill everybody you meet." - General James Mattis.

3 times elevated Knight of the Iridium Throne, Marquis Djar, Marquis of the Solomani Rim (Fafhrd), Count Uakye, and Count Jana. Duke Ninua of the Imperial Core.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old July 27th, 2017, 03:34 PM
MichaelSTee's Avatar
MichaelSTee MichaelSTee is offline
Citizen: SOC-11
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Peachtree Corners, GA
Posts: 91
Gallery : 0
Visit MichaelSTee's Blog
MichaelSTee has disabled reputation
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by McPerth View Post
Barbarian does not always mean nomadic. IITC, in RQ (not sure about what versión) the equivalent to a medieval European Knight was a Barbarian Warrior...
True. But if I roll up a Barbarian with good riding and fighting skills, I will picture him more of a Geronimo than a Lancelot...

My feelings are that there should be careers for uncivilized "barbarians" and other careers for civilized low-tech people.

As for the port code, take a leaf from Traveller's port code: ABCDEX for starport, and FGHY for spaceports. Use one set of codes for ocean port, another set for river port, another for inland.
__________________
Michael
Count Ishiri (Dene 1429), Baronet Jae (Jae Tellona/Spin 2814), Baronet Ambossa (Reft 0410), Knight of the Iridium Throne (Seku/Core 2312), Sir Michael (Lir/Core 2720), Accidentally made Knight of the 3I (Efate/Spin 1705), MCG for Conspicuous Gallantry
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old July 27th, 2017, 03:42 PM
McPerth's Avatar
McPerth McPerth is offline
Citizen: SOC-14
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Barcelona
Posts: 6,649
Gallery : 0
Visit McPerth's Blog
McPerth has disabled reputation
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by MichaelSTee View Post
True. But if I roll up a Barbarian with good riding and fighting skills, I will picture him more of a Geronimo than a Lancelot....
But you don't deny he could be either...

Quote:
Originally Posted by MichaelSTee View Post
My feelings are that there should be careers for uncivilized "barbarians" and other careers for civilized low-tech people.
Agreed.

As they are described in Traveller, the Roman Imperium or classical Athens would be seen as "barbarians", while there are higher TL people that would deserve this name qute more than them...
__________________
Duke of ShaiaVland 3215 B64A998-E
Marquis of Ashtagz Tyui SR 1818C548786-8
SEH for actions in Extolay

I'm not afraid about bullets, what scares me is the speed at which they're incoming.
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old July 27th, 2017, 03:47 PM
Ulsyus's Avatar
Ulsyus Ulsyus is offline
Baron
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 1,103
Gallery : 0
Visit Ulsyus's Blog
Ulsyus Citizen+Ulsyus Citizen+
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by MichaelSTee View Post
I also wondered for many years if Traveller should have a Charisma score to measure attractiveness.
I finally accepted that worlds/societies with different backgrounds (and even genetic drift or high/low gravity) would very easily have different standards of "beauty" - this applies even today, where someone considered attractive in a country like Thailand may not be considered attractive in other country, like say Argentina. (Just picking two countries at random here.)
As far as charm and likeability goes, I feel the same applies, if to a smaller amount.
So a Charisma characteristic should have negative modifiers for larger distances from the home of the character.
The problem with a characteristic like Charisma is that it's had a lot of historical-gaming legacy to weigh it down and shape perceptions about what it could or should be.

Is it meant to be about the ability to inspire others? Is it meant to be about the ability to lead? What about just influencing through personality? Is it about a character with compelling leadership qualities who others will follow beyond reason and courage?

Other game systems cover this sort of thing with skills. Pendragon uses Orate, Courtesy and Flirting to do some of this. The One Ring uses the skills Awe, Inspire and Persuade to do similar things. BRP includes Fast Talk and Bargaining to achieve some of that. The Fuzion system has Leadership, Persuasion and Seduction (though it has a characteristic called Presence which is added to those). T5 has the skills Carouse, Query, Persuade and Command listed as Personal skills on p142 of the BBB, though Actor is a separate skill as well that you'd imagine may need a bit of personality behind it if the user was to really make their mark.

So I reckon that more important than just adding in another characteristic could be to ask what you're trying to simulate, and how important that is to the player characters in the setting you want to run your games in.

That said, if you just wanted for simplicity's sake to capture it all in a single attribute, and you want to call it Charisma, then go ahead. It's your game and you should enjoy it.
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old July 27th, 2017, 04:26 PM
Chaos Chaos is offline
Citizen: SOC-12
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Frankfurt, Germany
Posts: 489
Gallery : 0
Chaos Citizen
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ulsyus View Post
The problem with a characteristic like Charisma is that it's had a lot of historical-gaming legacy to weigh it down and shape perceptions about what it could or should be.

Is it meant to be about the ability to inspire others? Is it meant to be about the ability to lead? What about just influencing through personality? Is it about a character with compelling leadership qualities who others will follow beyond reason and courage?

Other game systems cover this sort of thing with skills. Pendragon uses Orate, Courtesy and Flirting to do some of this. The One Ring uses the skills Awe, Inspire and Persuade to do similar things. BRP includes Fast Talk and Bargaining to achieve some of that. The Fuzion system has Leadership, Persuasion and Seduction (though it has a characteristic called Presence which is added to those). T5 has the skills Carouse, Query, Persuade and Command listed as Personal skills on p142 of the BBB, though Actor is a separate skill as well that you'd imagine may need a bit of personality behind it if the user was to really make their mark.

So I reckon that more important than just adding in another characteristic could be to ask what you're trying to simulate, and how important that is to the player characters in the setting you want to run your games in.

That said, if you just wanted for simplicity's sake to capture it all in a single attribute, and you want to call it Charisma, then go ahead. It's your game and you should enjoy it.
Just as with virtually everything else, the characteristic Charisma covers the basic ability, while skills are specialisations that improve aspects of that ability.

I get what you are saying, but the same argument could be used against Education, or Social Standing - *especially* Social Standing - to say they would be better portrayed as skills.
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old July 27th, 2017, 04:34 PM
Chaos Chaos is offline
Citizen: SOC-12
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Frankfurt, Germany
Posts: 489
Gallery : 0
Chaos Citizen
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by MichaelSTee View Post
As for the port code, take a leaf from Traveller's port code: ABCDEX for starport, and FGHY for spaceports. Use one set of codes for ocean port, another set for river port, another for inland.
That seems to be the best way to handle this.
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old July 27th, 2017, 04:45 PM
sfchbryan's Avatar
sfchbryan sfchbryan is offline
Citizen: SOC-12
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: El Paso
Posts: 424
Gallery : 3
Visit sfchbryan's Blog
sfchbryan has disabled reputation
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by McPerth View Post
IMHO, this limits too much the settings to maritime ones, ignoring the inland posible adventures. Of course Traveller is set in an environ where ports are important, but in many intresting historical settings they will not be so.

Barbarian does not always mean nomadic. IITC, in RQ (not sure about what versión) the equivalent to a medieval European Knight was a Barbarian Warrior...
If you have to move anything - it is going by boat - people or cargo. TL0-4 societies do not have extensive transportation networks - it isn't just roads/rail networks - you don't have the infrastructure to build the engines & rolling stock.

There is a reason transportation infrastructure follow waterways, it is as true today as it was a hundred years ago.

My Grandfather was moving his general store goods via barge, because it simply wasn't possible with the road/rail network in the southern US in the 1930's (TL-5).

Your adventures are going to be near the water.

Edwardian England also qualifies as a "Barbarian" culture (TL-4).
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old July 27th, 2017, 07:49 PM
MichaelSTee's Avatar
MichaelSTee MichaelSTee is offline
Citizen: SOC-11
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Peachtree Corners, GA
Posts: 91
Gallery : 0
Visit MichaelSTee's Blog
MichaelSTee has disabled reputation
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by McPerth View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by MichaelSTee:
True. But if I roll up a Barbarian with good riding and fighting skills, I will picture him more of a Geronimo than a Lancelot....

by McPerth:
But you don't deny he could be either...
Under Rules as written, yes, the character could be either. But the nice thing about Cepheus is that I can make my own Rules-as-written, where Barbarians can only come from a TL0 world (or society).
__________________
Michael
Count Ishiri (Dene 1429), Baronet Jae (Jae Tellona/Spin 2814), Baronet Ambossa (Reft 0410), Knight of the Iridium Throne (Seku/Core 2312), Sir Michael (Lir/Core 2720), Accidentally made Knight of the 3I (Efate/Spin 1705), MCG for Conspicuous Gallantry
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Historical IN fleet figures? rancke The Fleet 13 March 17th, 2014 03:27 PM
Adventures from historical incidents Dragoner The Lone Star 21 September 27th, 2012 12:37 AM
Question for the rules and Traveller historical Gurus about Hull costs in MT JRDavis The Fleet 3 August 17th, 2010 02:26 AM
Historical Striker? jrients Traveller Wargames 6 May 13th, 2006 11:54 AM

This website and its contents are copyright ©2010-2013 Far Future Enterprises. All rights reserved. Traveller is a registered trademark of Far Future Enterprises .
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright (c) 2010-2013, Far Future Enterprises. All Rights Reserved.