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  #111  
Old July 22nd, 2016, 02:57 PM
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Originally Posted by aramis View Post
The working drafts Marc's been putting to the various focus groups are M1900... The maps look a lot alike, but the empires aren't the same, and quite honestly, some things are going to be QUITE different because of them. But it still will have worlds, ships, and travel, and ethical dilemmas. Just like CT did. And MT, and TNE, and T4.

Then again, Britain 700 years ago had similar borders to now. And so did France and Spain, and the Swiss. And Japan. But those haven't stayed the same in the interim; they have simply wound up by historical and geopolitical happenstance to line up.
Seven hundred years ago was prior to the Hundred Years War, and parts of France still were controlled by England. The Scots had just beaten up on Edward the Second at Bannockburn, and were independent, and busily raiding the North Marches of England.

The Swiss were not really around yet at all in the sense of an independent country, as the Battle of Mortgarten had just occurred, with the three Forest Cantons gaining their independence from the Holy Roman Empire. Burgundy was still an independent power, and controlled what is now the Netherlands and Belgium.

As for Spain, a fair chunk of that was still controlled by the Moors, while Italy was a total and complete mess. The Ottomans were busily expanding in the Balkans, aside from some attempts against Persia, and the Byzantines were still around to an extent.

A map of Europe in 1300 would not at all resemble a map of the Europe of today. Denmark still controlled Norway and Sweden, and nominally Iceland. while the Greenland Norse settlements were hanging on by a thread. Sicily and Naples were independent kingdoms, while the Russians were still getting their act together.

In Asia, the Mongol Empire was still around, and Kublai Khan had just died. The Japanese had just avoided two Mongol invasions.

The, of course, North and South America were pretty much on their own, and clearly did not resemble the present day in the least.

Also, reconcile this with the fact that the 1981 Edition of Traveller is still for sale, as in Starter Traveller and The Traveller Book, along with collections of the Journal of the Traveller's Aid Society. There is a massive disconnect here.
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  #112  
Old July 22nd, 2016, 03:26 PM
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Originally Posted by timerover51 View Post
As for Spain, a fair chunk of that was still controlled by the Moors...
Just as a remark here; Spain as such did not exist by then, the Christian part of the penninsula being confomed by the kingdoms of Castilla y Leon (center/northwest), Corona d'Aragó (east), Portugal (west) and the Kingdom of Navarra (north), while several Moor Caliphates dominated the south (jointly known as Al-Andalus).

Of course, this only reinforces your point in what concerns Spain...
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  #113  
Old July 22nd, 2016, 07:00 PM
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Just as a remark here; Spain as such did not exist by then, the Christian part of the penninsula being confomed by the kingdoms of Castilla y Leon (center/northwest), Corona d'Aragó (east), Portugal (west) and the Kingdom of Navarra (north), while several Moor Caliphates dominated the south (jointly known as Al-Andalus).

Of course, this only reinforces your point in what concerns Spain...
McPerth, I did not want to get into all of the gritty details, but thank you so much for pointing them out.
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  #114  
Old July 22nd, 2016, 07:59 PM
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McPerth, I did not want to get into all of the gritty details, but thank you so much for pointing them out.
Indulge him a bit... he was talking about his homeland...
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  #115  
Old July 26th, 2016, 06:43 PM
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Originally Posted by tjoneslo View Post
The counter argument was from a player perspective you want the library data for the current time. The future (I.e. Time traveler spoilers) had not happened yet. And you didn't want to see them.
I understand that it is feeling but I don't think it holds water with parellels such as:
  • The BattleTech universe with their sarna dot net website where one finds out the Clan thing was pretty much all for naught, the timeline progresses, and still, people play and write stuff in their own sandbox eras of the past
  • The Star Wars expanded universe beyond the movies (albiet somewhat now invalidated)having dealt with future events beyond the (then) six movies and such
I think that people interested can handle spoilers. Unless you are thinking that Traveller fans are SO intolerant of spoilers
Besides a lot of things can happen in ~700 years after 1248 when Galaxiad finally is written about.

My "feeling" or opinion on the matter is that it is you are only prolonging the inevitable to placate an audience segment.
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  #116  
Old July 27th, 2016, 10:14 AM
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It's worth thinking about what you want the Traveller Wiki to be.
  • Do you want it to be a reference site as to what is Canon? I don't think it needs to do this, as a prospective publisher can get the majority of material that is actually considered Canon on the CD-ROMS from FFE. I also think you might be stretching the concept of Fair Use by putting up a comprehensive OTU reference on the Wiki. Remember, Canon is for publishers. It's not for angels-dancing-on-the-head-of-a-pin arguments in forums.
    I'd also argue that posting on here is likely to get you a far better view of what is or isn't Canon if you need clarification after reading the material. Cunningham's law is a marvellous thing if you know how to use it correctly.
  • Do you want it to be a site where fan-made material can be put up? I'm given to the impression that this is what it was originally designed for.
In other words, it would be worth understanding what folks actually use the Traveller Wiki for and optimise it for that. I would be willing to bet that publishers looking up canon to avoid clashes represents a vanishingly small proportion of its actual user base.
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  #117  
Old July 27th, 2016, 02:02 PM
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Originally Posted by nobby-w View Post
  • Do you want it to be a reference site as to what is Canon? I don't think it needs to do this, as a prospective publisher can get the majority of material that is actually considered Canon on the CD-ROMS from FFE. I also think you might be stretching the concept of Fair Use by putting up a comprehensive OTU reference on the Wiki. Remember, Canon is for publishers. It's not for angels-dancing-on-the-head-of-a-pin arguments in forums.
    I'd also argue that posting on here is likely to get you a far better view of what is or isn't Canon if you need clarification after reading the material. Cunningham's law is a marvellous thing if you know how to use it correctly.
Why yes I would like that. On that basis, the TNE 1 and TNE 2 CD ROMS when you click to get the descriptions, the resultant PDF indicates that TNE 1 is "Essential Canon" and TNE-2 is "Extended Canon".
Hyperbole? If not, should they not be included?
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  #118  
Old July 27th, 2016, 02:05 PM
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Originally Posted by nobby-w View Post
  • Do you want it to be a site where fan-made material can be put up? I'm given to the impression that this is what it was originally designed for.
It is already being done as Fandom, at the very least with sectors outside of published materials.
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  #119  
Old July 27th, 2016, 05:17 PM
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Originally Posted by Nathan Brazil View Post
Why yes I would like that. On that basis, the TNE 1 and TNE 2 CD ROMS when you click to get the descriptions, the resultant PDF indicates that TNE 1 is "Essential Canon" and TNE-2 is "Extended Canon".
Hyperbole? If not, should they not be included?
'Comprehensive guide to canon' is a notion that turns up on this site on a semi-regular basis - in various forms. Nobody has actually done it, though, because it's a bit of a can of worms.

The FFE policy on canon roughly boils down to Canon is for publishers. It's there to stop folks from publishing items that conflict with each other. That also means that such a document is only relevant to a few dozen people in the entire world.

The obsession with Canon in Traveller fandom is unhealthy, and writing documents to attempt to codify it in some way simply encourages arguments about its minutae, which do little to advance the start of the art. Really, a canon guide would largely be used as a reference guide for folks getting involved in flame wars. In practice, I think that if such a thing were written it would be little but an attractive nuisance.
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  #120  
Old July 27th, 2016, 05:43 PM
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Really, a canon guide would largely be used as a reference guide for folks getting involved in flame wars.
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