Traveller Store CotI Features New Posts Mark Forums Read Register


Go Back TravellerRPG.com > Citizens of the Imperium > General Traveller Discussions > Imperial Interstellar Scout Service

Imperial Interstellar Scout Service Details of the worlds of the Imperium (and beyond).

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old May 8th, 2016, 11:24 AM
Marchand Marchand is offline
Citizen: SOC-12
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Hinterworlds
Posts: 338
Gallery : 1
Marchand Citizen
Default Gravity greater than M-drive potential

How do you deal with it where a world has greater gravity than a ship's M-drive potential?

(Mainly thinking about CT and other rulesets with simpler ship design; I think GURPS and T5 go into some detail on a ship's aerodynamics.)

You might say the ship just can't get off the ground (and will crash if it attempts to land).

Another way to handle it might be that streamlined ships can still take off (and make controlled landings) where Atm is 4 or greater and the pilot makes one or more successful Piloting throws.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old May 8th, 2016, 11:38 AM
Fovean Fovean is offline
Citizen: SOC-12
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Crescent City
Posts: 348
Gallery : 0
Fovean Citizen+Fovean Citizen+
Default

I've been using the theory that every M-Drive produces twice its rating in Gs - half for maneuver, half for inertial compensation. Turn off compensation and you get extra Gs to work with but your crew/passengers/cargo now suffer the effects of G-forces....
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old May 8th, 2016, 11:48 AM
mike wightman's Avatar
mike wightman mike wightman is offline
Noble
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Newcastle
Posts: 16,384
Gallery : 0
mike wightman Respected Citizenmike wightman Respected Citizenmike wightman Respected Citizenmike wightman Respected Citizenmike wightman Respected Citizenmike wightman Respected Citizenmike wightman Respected Citizen
Default

Ships that operate in an atmosphere generate lift.

They take off like an aeroplane and accelerate, getting faster and faster and faster.

They gain altitude, and continue getting faster and faster.

The magic maneuver drive continues generating 1g of acceleration until you reach escape velocity.
__________________
The beauty of CT LBB1-3 is that the ref is free to make such decisions for themselves.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old May 8th, 2016, 12:30 PM
whulorigan's Avatar
« whulorigan » whulorigan is offline
Count
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Philadelphia
Posts: 2,658
Gallery : 0
Visit whulorigan's Blog
whulorigan Citizen++whulorigan Citizen++whulorigan Citizen++whulorigan Citizen++whulorigan Citizen++whulorigan Citizen++
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marchand View Post
How do you deal with it where a world has greater gravity than a ship's M-drive potential?

(Mainly thinking about CT and other rulesets with simpler ship design; I think GURPS and T5 go into some detail on a ship's aerodynamics.)

You might say the ship just can't get off the ground (and will crash if it attempts to land).

Another way to handle it might be that streamlined ships can still take off (and make controlled landings) where Atm is 4 or greater and the pilot makes one or more successful Piloting throws.
MT/DGP postulated that the M-Drive could be "overpowered' by +40% for an certain amount of time with minimal risk as long as there was a qualified engineer monitoring it (and could be ramped-up to +400% for a few minutes with proper engineer-supervision and significant risk).

T5 includes (form prior rulesets) both Lifters (Z-Drives) and G-Drives & M-Drives. Lifters merely negate weight (and are a hull-fitting) and allow a small degree of lateral movement. With the Lifters in use, the G-Drive or M-Drive can then operate at full acceleration-efficiency unhampered by planetary G-Fields.
__________________
.



WHULorigan (Wayne)

Lord Richard Elruinn Ilendrick Rhovanion of Rhylanor
Count RhovanionSPIN 2716 Rhylanor A434934-FSir Richard, Knight (Kt)SPIN 2716 Rhylanor A434934-F
MarquisSPIN 0433 Jone B792785-9Sir Richard Elruinn, Knight (Kt)FORN 0727 Dirli C994422-8
Baronet of Jae TellonaSPIN 2814 Jae Tellona A560565-8Knight of Deneb (KD)SPIN 2814 Jae Tellona A560565-8
Baron of the Third ImperiumSPIN 3220 Powaza C787566-5Knight of the Third Imperium (KTI)SPIN 3235 Trin A894A96-F
Knight of the Iridium Throne (KIT)CORE 2419 Sevan A544576-A
Richard Elruinn Rhovanion (TAS Member #0008)SPIN 2716 Rhylanor A434934-F

Other Awards
:
Duke of the Third ImperiumREAV 3209 Kylian BA57742-A
Duke of KhouthCORR 0104 Khouth A8C3999-D
Viscount of AlellSPIN 1706 Alell B56789C–A
Baron of ImlaarDENE 2212 Imlaar D677551-6SEH - For Extreme Heroism @ The Battle of Ruby
Baroness of NorthammonDENE 0921 Northammon B764667-AMCGx2 - For Conspicuous Gallantry @ The Assaults on Dinomn & Denotam

Link: Traveller5 Noble Patents Registry
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old May 8th, 2016, 12:42 PM
mike wightman's Avatar
mike wightman mike wightman is offline
Noble
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Newcastle
Posts: 16,384
Gallery : 0
mike wightman Respected Citizenmike wightman Respected Citizenmike wightman Respected Citizenmike wightman Respected Citizenmike wightman Respected Citizenmike wightman Respected Citizenmike wightman Respected Citizen
Default

Al that is necessary is streamlined hull generated lift, an airframe hull does so with even greater efficiency.
__________________
The beauty of CT LBB1-3 is that the ref is free to make such decisions for themselves.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old May 8th, 2016, 04:45 PM
Whipsnade's Avatar
Whipsnade Whipsnade is offline
Citizen: SOC-14
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Dover, New Hampshire, USA
Posts: 5,916
Gallery : 5
Visit Whipsnade's Blog
Whipsnade Citizen+Whipsnade Citizen+Whipsnade Citizen+
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marchand View Post
How do you deal with it where a world has greater gravity than a ship's M-drive potential?

From the first I assumed "contra-grav" or "anti-grav" capabilities as implied parts of the M-drive.

After all, LBB:2 allowed acceleration up to 6 gees without ever mentioning inertial dampening, internal "gravitic nets", or even gee-tolerating mechanisms like special suits, special couches, or the Forever War's pressure-buoyancy tanks.

It was when MT added much detail to ship design and description that we got all the systems CT had earlier implied; contra-grav, gravitic deck plates, plus radios, masers, radars, different sensors, etc.

If you want to ignore CT's implied capabilities while also not using MT's increased numbers of systems, you use the suggestions already posted; aerodynamics, overpowering M-drives, etc.

If exploring a "gravitics-free" setting sounds interesting, you might be interested in fellow COTI member Omer G. Joel's up coming Hard Space. Here's a link
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old May 8th, 2016, 05:31 PM
aramis's Avatar
aramis aramis is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Anchorage, AK, USofA
Posts: 29,252
Gallery : 53
Visit aramis's Blog
aramis has disabled reputation
Send a message via ICQ to aramis Send a message via AIM to aramis Send a message via Yahoo to aramis
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Whipsnade View Post
From the first I assumed "contra-grav" or "anti-grav" capabilities as implied parts of the M-drive.

After all, LBB:2 allowed acceleration up to 6 gees without ever mentioning inertial dampening, internal "gravitic nets", or even gee-tolerating mechanisms like special suits, special couches, or the Forever War's pressure-buoyancy tanks.

It was when MT added much detail to ship design and description that we got all the systems CT had earlier implied; contra-grav, gravitic deck plates, plus radios, masers, radars, different sensors, etc.

If you want to ignore CT's implied capabilities while also not using MT's increased numbers of systems, you use the suggestions already posted; aerodynamics, overpowering M-drives, etc.

If exploring a "gravitics-free" setting sounds interesting, you might be interested in fellow COTI member Omer G. Joel's up coming Hard Space. Here's a link
MT did NOT add Contra-Grav - that was TNE.

MT used 400% thrust on axis for up to 10 minutes, and inertial compensation.
__________________
~ Aramis
aramis.hostman.us /trav
Smith & Wesson: The Original Point and Click interface!

Archduke of Sylea (CORE 2118)
Duke of the Third Imperium (SPIN 0534)
Count Terra (SOLO 1827)
Count Gorod (REFT 1302)
Count of the Third Imperium (SPIN 2232)
Viscount of Adabicci (SPIN 1824)
Marquis of the Solomani Rim (SOLO 0606)
Marquis of the Third Imperium (SPIN 2410)
Baron of the Third Imperium (SPIN 2231)
Knight of the Iridium Throne (CORE 1434)
Sir William Hostman (OLDE 0512)
Sir William Hostman (DAGU 0622)
Knight of Deneb (REFT 2239)
Knight of Deneb (Spin 2532)
SEH w/Diamonds for Extreme Heroism - Battle of Boughene
MCG - Battle of Boughene
TAS: William Hostman (CORR 2506)
TAS: Bearer (DAIB 1326)
IMTU ct+ tm++ tne tg-- tt+ tmo+ t4- t20+ to ru+ ge+ 3i+ c+ jt au ls pi+ ta he+ st+
Wil Hostman 0602 C539857-9 S A724
OTU: 95% 3i an+ au+ br- cpu± dt± f+ fs++ ge± ih- inf± j± jf+ jm+ jt+ ls- n= nc+ pi+ pp-- tp+ tr+ tv- vi-- xb+-
Unless there is bold red text, presume my posts to be my personal material only.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old May 8th, 2016, 05:43 PM
Whipsnade's Avatar
Whipsnade Whipsnade is offline
Citizen: SOC-14
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Dover, New Hampshire, USA
Posts: 5,916
Gallery : 5
Visit Whipsnade's Blog
Whipsnade Citizen+Whipsnade Citizen+Whipsnade Citizen+
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by aramis View Post
MT did NOT add Contra-Grav - that was TNE.

Same difference.

CT implied certain technologies while later versions detailed the same down to mass, volume, and power requirements.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old May 8th, 2016, 09:41 PM
Jeff M. Hopper's Avatar
Jeff M. Hopper Jeff M. Hopper is offline
Citizen: SOC-14
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Knoxville, TN, USA
Posts: 2,764
Gallery : 2
Visit Jeff M. Hopper's Blog
Jeff M. Hopper Citizen+Jeff M. Hopper Citizen+
Default

I like Repulsors.

If they can deflect incoming missiles, then surely they can loft payloads into orbit or give those pesky merchant vessels with no legs a helping lift, for a small fee of course.
__________________
Sir Jeff Hopper
Knight of the Third Imperium Zaru 2305 Indus B859653-A
Baron of the Third Imperium Corr 2836 Igudi D586643-2
TAS Member Corr 0213 Erlu B7C0626-9
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old May 8th, 2016, 10:55 PM
aramis's Avatar
aramis aramis is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Anchorage, AK, USofA
Posts: 29,252
Gallery : 53
Visit aramis's Blog
aramis has disabled reputation
Send a message via ICQ to aramis Send a message via AIM to aramis Send a message via Yahoo to aramis
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Whipsnade View Post
Same difference.

CT implied certain technologies while later versions detailed the same down to mass, volume, and power requirements.
Not quite. TNE's CG cuts the ship off from 98% of local gravity. Which is VERY VERY different from MT's 400% thrust.

MT, you can take off, but you don't have time to dawdle - 1G in a 1.5 G, you make the roll, and push at 2.5G net... some risk of failure and drive damage.

It also puts all but the cloud tops of GG's as needing to be hypersonic parabolae, even with the 400% thrust, because the journey is too long to maintain it...

The Inertial Compensation simply prevents those on board from being thrown about; it has no external protection.


TNE, however, 1 G in 1.5G is taking off at 0.97G with no risk. In fact, TNE CG means you can go down to near crush depth of a brown dwarf and still escape with a near-zero speed... because you can do down to the 19G line and still be accelerating, and be in deep enough to scoop while doing so, so fuel time isn't an issue.

TNE's CG is a HUGE and significant difference from MT's pure thrust and internal acceleration compensation. And TNE also has IC, in addition...

Essentially, in TNE, any ship with 1G can leave any non-gas-giant world under normal thrust with at least 0.5G's of acceleration, and can pretty safely skim; at crush depths, they typically will be wanting to rise to the surface if the CG is working.

In MT, anything past 4G is unreachable by civil shipping, and further, much of the depths are dangerous.
__________________
~ Aramis
aramis.hostman.us /trav
Smith & Wesson: The Original Point and Click interface!

Archduke of Sylea (CORE 2118)
Duke of the Third Imperium (SPIN 0534)
Count Terra (SOLO 1827)
Count Gorod (REFT 1302)
Count of the Third Imperium (SPIN 2232)
Viscount of Adabicci (SPIN 1824)
Marquis of the Solomani Rim (SOLO 0606)
Marquis of the Third Imperium (SPIN 2410)
Baron of the Third Imperium (SPIN 2231)
Knight of the Iridium Throne (CORE 1434)
Sir William Hostman (OLDE 0512)
Sir William Hostman (DAGU 0622)
Knight of Deneb (REFT 2239)
Knight of Deneb (Spin 2532)
SEH w/Diamonds for Extreme Heroism - Battle of Boughene
MCG - Battle of Boughene
TAS: William Hostman (CORR 2506)
TAS: Bearer (DAIB 1326)
IMTU ct+ tm++ tne tg-- tt+ tmo+ t4- t20+ to ru+ ge+ 3i+ c+ jt au ls pi+ ta he+ st+
Wil Hostman 0602 C539857-9 S A724
OTU: 95% 3i an+ au+ br- cpu± dt± f+ fs++ ge± ih- inf± j± jf+ jm+ jt+ ls- n= nc+ pi+ pp-- tp+ tr+ tv- vi-- xb+-
Unless there is bold red text, presume my posts to be my personal material only.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
CT Only: Using 1981 Drive Potential table with 1977 rules? BlindGuy The Lone Star 3 April 27th, 2015 05:22 PM
Drive Potential Table Kaveman Koder Classic Traveller 14 October 4th, 2008 04:42 PM
Drive potential table - filling in the missing hulls mike wightman Classic Traveller 33 June 7th, 2008 04:53 PM
Revised LBB2 Drive Potential Table Thunderbolt Classic Traveller 9 May 17th, 2008 12:49 AM
Missing Jump Drive Potential Table Gruffty T4 - Marc Miller's Traveller 5 June 7th, 2004 06:27 PM

This website and its contents are copyright ©2010- Far Future Enterprises. All rights reserved. Traveller is a registered trademark of Far Future Enterprises .
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright (c) 2010-2013, Far Future Enterprises. All Rights Reserved.