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In the OTU In the Official Traveller Universe. Any milieux that's been published in any edition. Not for discussion of rules except in reference to how they reflect the OTU

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  #21  
Old March 8th, 2016, 06:04 PM
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Originally Posted by inexorabletash View Post
The caste system is what irks me about the Zhos. Otherwise, a society where mental health issues are treated early and not stigmatized as in some cultures (*cough*) is pretty appealing.

Of course, the Imps have their hereditary nobility as well so the 3I is hardly superior in that regard. The same spin could apply to justifying both, and at least for the Zhos it's an objective meritocracy.
Meritocracy sounds pretty great in the first place. I wonder if it would ever really work with corruption, nepotism, and the like getting in the way. The Mandarins only worked so well...

And I have yet to see a really functional model of direct democracy, with all due respect to the Swiss for their accomplishments.

And, Josh, I'm not sure about you, but after reading "Agent of the Imperium", I got a really strong impression that the 3i nobility is really corrupt. Great realism.

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  #22  
Old March 8th, 2016, 06:05 PM
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Originally Posted by GypsyComet View Post
By stabilizing dynasties in exchange, and trying never to give away that the Vargr are only pawns.
*** Pawns? What do you mean? ***

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  #23  
Old March 8th, 2016, 06:50 PM
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Originally Posted by mike wightman View Post
When the Zhodani were introduced they were the 'bad guys'.
Or rather they were the 'bad guys' of pro-Imperial propaganda.

The Imperium - a state that does nothing for its members; the Imperium - that locks away political dissenters without trial; the Imperium - that ships criminals in cold sleep to colony worlds on the frontier to provide labour (but not slavery, no never slavery); the Imperium - that turns a blind eye to rampant exploitation of people and resources; the Imperium - the original 'bad guys' for PCs rebel against.

I see the Zhodani as a much more enlightened, benevolent and 'good' polity; the Imperium as the aggressive, expansionist, power hungry state.

Imperial justice - let's execute the criminal.
Zhodani justice - let's treat the criminal and return them to society.
That sounds like subversive talk ... comrade.

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  #24  
Old March 8th, 2016, 08:37 PM
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In all seriousness, you'd have to keep spending resources to maintain that kind of grip or control on society. And standards of acceptable behavior would vary wildly, or so I would think contrary to your conclusion.

The methods of addressing dissatisfaction and criminality may be the same, but jay walking in Hicktown Zho is probably a misdemeanor, whereas even though it's probably on the law books in Metropolis Zho I doubt any enforcer of any rank is even going to bat an eyelash at some jaywalker, unless they were feeling highly uncharitable.

And I would think the privileged psi-noble-class would generate a ton of resentment among the proles.

Think of cat-fights at beauty contests among the contestants who are vying to be the privileged girl to be crowned. Now magnify that among a city, planet, system or even subsector population.

Ultimately I think that's why Zhos fail as a large political entity. I simply think they cannot last with their intrusive heavy handedness.

And perhaps that's the real reason Virus swept through them.
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  #25  
Old March 8th, 2016, 11:03 PM
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And perhaps that's the real reason Virus swept through them.
The Empress Wave is what got the Zhodani. They were still sufficiently put together to aid in the quarantine against Virus, at least at first.
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  #26  
Old March 8th, 2016, 11:06 PM
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Also, the Zhodani culture grew up alongside the Droyne until a WMD disease was accidentally unleashed on Zhdant. I think they found it at an Ancient base on their moon...

The rigid caste of the Droyne, everyone in their place and a place for everyone, would strongly influence Zhodani culture.
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  #27  
Old March 8th, 2016, 11:18 PM
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Originally Posted by SanDragon View Post
Also, the Zhodani culture grew up alongside the Droyne until a WMD disease was accidentally unleashed on Zhdant. I think they found it at an Ancient base on their moon...

The rigid caste of the Droyne, everyone in their place and a place for everyone, would strongly influence Zhodani culture.
Zhodani culture grew up alongside Chirper influence. BIG difference.

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  #28  
Old March 8th, 2016, 11:21 PM
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Oh, well. Memory degrades and all that.
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  #29  
Old March 8th, 2016, 11:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Blue Ghost View Post
But would they really be stable? The young law breaker who steals, who also maybe does a few drugs, sometimes just reforms on his own, seeing and knowing that there's no future, so he shapes up.
He doesn't get much past the first theft. When the theft is discovered, the Tavrchedle are called in to make note. They then HUNT HIM DOWN LIKE A DOG. They start asking around.

If he can't be fixed by the Taverchedle, he's quietly terminated. Either directly, or by being assigned to a high risk job under tight supervision. (Read, Assault troops.)

They don't counsel - they rewire the brain. It's beyond brainwashing. It's forcibly destroying the urge to have that which you don't want to pay for.

Further, they are a socialist society - those too infirm to do their current job will be retrained - by psionic force if need be - and will be put in a job they can do, and made to enjoy it.

Further still - there will likely be 2-3 taverchedle at each elementary school. Johnny never gets the chance to develop the urge to steal, because at age 4, in pre-school, johnny taking toys away from others is grounds for a referral to the "Guardian of Morality" ... who doesn't just tell johnny why it's wrong to take things from others, but literally, if the day's been slow enough, rewires his brain to abhor theft, right then and there.

There is no Young Law Breaker - he's either dead or adjusted. There is no proletarian political will - it's been destroyed from childhood as a form of mental illness. And the few children powerful enough to even have the potential to be a wild talent and resist are culled from the proletariat's population, and moved to a different breeding pool.

This is the dark subtext of the lack of social mobility to the intendant and noble classes... a prole would be mentally incapable of the decision making needed in most intendant jobs. All political thought, all political will, is restricted to the upper classes. And it's ruthlessly excised from childhood on.
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  #30  
Old March 8th, 2016, 11:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aramis View Post
This is the dark subtext of the lack of social mobility to the intendant and noble classes... a prole would be mentally incapable of the decision making needed in most intendant jobs. All political thought, all political will, is restricted to the upper classes. And it's ruthlessly excised from childhood on.
And a good take on Dark Side Zhodani. Or Aramis has been reading too much Imperial propaganda...

Every campaign will use the Zhodani differently.
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