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Liftoff Unofficial discussion related to 13Mann's Traveller: Liftoff set. For official discussion, go to http://forum.13mann.de/wbb/index.php?page=Board&boardID=67.

Note: The project has been cancelled, but the Beta-1.3 files are still available from 13 Mann.


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  #31  
Old August 29th, 2016, 01:49 PM
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Definitely don't mean to hijack.
you joined in 2001, and have 7 posts? you should hijack more often.

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I think it's possible to have a successful game without supporting <electronic/net stuff> ....
a game, with over-the-hill graybeards who argue about how many bases the darrians had before the maghiz, sure. but the subject was new players. young people today have been surrounded by vast amounts of other people's highly detailed work just handed to them electronically all their lives. many of them never have developed any of their own work, and are poorly inclined to use their own imaginations and effort to construct a game world - they've been stepping into other people's worlds for so long that to them that's just how it's done.
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Old August 29th, 2016, 02:10 PM
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I was being gracious, or trying to be, anyway.

In truth, I don't believe that a modern paper-and-dice RPG with a serious intention of bringing on new blood can reasonably expect to thrive without supporting digital apps.

As to the lack of creativity with today's young people... I'm not sure I'm down. Some, yea. And I know that's the stereotype. But consider this: probably -the- defining computer game of the younger generation is all about creativity - Minecraft. The Extra Credits have an excellent video on this somewhere, and while I know mixing vidgame and paper-and-dice game talk ( or with card game or board game or war game talk, for that matter ) can get complex quick, I wonder if you couldn't make the T5 Player's Guide supporting digital stuff a good mix - here's some apps to help bypass some crunch, but here's some SDK type goodness for people that -really- wanna tweak. Like, on-steriods-tweak.

I also think it's entirely possible to do apps in ways that appease the graybeards. TravellerMap immediately comes to mind as a stellar ( heh ) example. Definitely useful, easy to use, shiny looking, and extensible.

More like that, please. Talk about those apps would drive people to the game. Not all of them would be goofballs. : )
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  #33  
Old August 29th, 2016, 08:27 PM
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Originally Posted by Spenser TR View Post
I was being gracious, or trying to be, anyway.

In truth, I don't believe that a modern paper-and-dice RPG with a serious intention of bringing on new blood can reasonably expect to thrive without supporting digital apps.
Star Wars does quite well. Pretty much the #3 game, right after Pathfinder.
Only one app is actually approved and supporting the game direct - FFG's Star Wars Dice.
A couple unlicensed Character Sheet apps are available.

D&D 5E is doing really well. #1 selling RPG in all available market data.
The licensed apps are a couple character sheet handlers, and a virtual-tabletop implementation automating much of play. The later, while incredibly popular with VTT D&D 5E players, has little reach outside that. 5E doesn't even have official PDFs.
Several less-than official bits are out there, too - a spellbook app, a couple more character sheet apps, a couple initiative handlers...

Thing is, at D&D AL, the only apps I'm seeing used with any regularity are "5E Character" and "5E spellbook"; both for Android. And I'm the only one I know using the latter.

5E character is really nice. I use it to get new D&D players customized characters. It shortens the process for newbs to about 3-10 minutes, instead of 10-60 minutes with the books.

I know ONE chap using a PC character gen app... because he (not unlike me) has issues with legibility handwritten.

I'm not seeing a whole lot of demand for apps.

I'm seeing a number of new games with support apps - but they usually fall into four categories - Character sheets, initiative, and customized dice apps, with a few having spellbook apps.

Generally, tho', people seem to be avoiding games that need apps...
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  #34  
Old August 30th, 2016, 05:26 AM
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I'm in complete agreement with the idea that a game ( paper and dice RPG, meant for widespread appeal ) that -requires- apps for play is in for a serious uphill climb, regardless of its intended audience.

I meant "needs" more in the same sense that a game "needs" artwork, or "needs" to be clear and understandable for the intended audience. And the examples you ( Aramis ) give are very relevant, of course. There's definitely a lot of nuance to the matter. To do well, it certainly helps to have a multi-billion dollar entertainment franchise supporting your system, or to have market penetration such that most non-gamers would recognize the name of your game, give it if pressed for an example.
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  #35  
Old August 30th, 2016, 05:38 AM
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I'm in complete agreement with the idea that a game ( paper and dice RPG, meant for widespread appeal ) that -requires- apps for play is in for a serious uphill climb, regardless of its intended audience.

I meant "needs" more in the same sense that a game "needs" artwork, or "needs" to be clear and understandable for the intended audience. And the examples you ( Aramis ) give are very relevant, of course. There's definitely a lot of nuance to the matter. To do well, it certainly helps to have a multi-billion dollar entertainment franchise supporting your system, or to have market penetration such that most non-gamers would recognize the name of your game, give it if pressed for an example.
The real irony is that the character sheet program for D&D 5E isn't by a big name. It's a ≤$5 by a small shop, who got DMCA'd, then permitted to license it...
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  #36  
Old August 30th, 2016, 12:05 PM
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The real irony is that the character sheet program for D&D 5E isn't by a big name. It's a ≤$5 by a small shop, who got DMCA'd, then permitted to license it...
That is an interesting sentence, that makes my UX architect ears perk up.
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  #37  
Old August 30th, 2016, 12:47 PM
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That is an interesting sentence, that makes my UX architect ears perk up.
It's well designed but is missing one feature for big screen android users (Tabletheads like me - I've a Note Pro... 12" tablet)

The app is Fifth Edition Character Sheet.

The one thing I wish Walt would implement is an "all panes at once in landscape."
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Old August 30th, 2016, 04:56 PM
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Originally Posted by flykiller View Post
young people today have been surrounded by vast amounts of other people's highly detailed work just handed to them electronically all their lives. many of them never have developed any of their own work, and are poorly inclined to use their own imaginations and effort to construct a game world - they've been stepping into other people's worlds for so long that to them that's just how it's done.
Are you seriously claiming that all young people nowadays are unimaginative clods who can't create anything? Wow.

They're just as imaginative as any of us were in our youth. The idea that somehow all or even most young people expect everything to be "spoonfed" to them and are incapable of creativity is one that is (a) totally wrong, (b) peculiar to this board (which does have a well-deserved reputation for being filled with older, more insular players), and (c) pretty insulting to young people, plenty of which are quite imaginative thank you very much.

Last edited by flg; August 31st, 2016 at 12:54 AM..
  #39  
Old August 31st, 2016, 02:15 PM
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Are you seriously claiming that all young people nowadays are unimaginative clods who can't create anything? Wow.

They're just as imaginative as any of us were in our youth. The idea that somehow all or even most young people expect everything to be "spoonfed" to them and are incapable of creativity is one that is (a) totally wrong, (b) peculiar to this board (which does have a well-deserved reputation for being filled with older, more insular players), and (c) pretty insulting to young people, plenty of which are quite imaginative thank you very much.
For what its worth, I'm on this board, and I don't hold to what flykiller wrote at all.
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Old August 31st, 2016, 05:40 PM
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Originally Posted by flg View Post
Are you seriously claiming that all young people nowadays are unimaginative clods who can't create anything? Wow.

They're just as imaginative as any of us were in our youth. The idea that somehow all or even most young people expect everything to be "spoonfed" to them and are incapable of creativity is one that is (a) totally wrong, (b) peculiar to this board (which does have a well-deserved reputation for being filled with older, more insular players), and (c) pretty insulting to young people, plenty of which are quite imaginative thank you very much.
I'm with Creativehum on this. I am a relatively insular curmudgeon here, but even I understand that young people are as highly creative as they ever were, and certainly more imaginative than I am today.
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