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Liftoff Unofficial discussion related to 13Mann's Traveller: Liftoff set. For official discussion, go to

Note: The project has been cancelled, but the Beta-1.3 files are still available from 13 Mann.

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Old March 15th, 2015, 02:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Easterner9504 View Post
Quote from RouvenW, 13Mann forums Oct, 2014

"While doing so, we failed to keep an eye on the market and forgot that the audience we intended to build was not there, yet. Prices were too high and Liftoff fell flat on its face."

I see nothing secret or classified here. Unless you claim this is untrue?

Personally, I never saw the need for a starter kit, didn't like very much of what I saw or its space wasting format.

Loved their stats gen and now use it all the time: Roll 11dice +5 and arrange 6 stats. Pretty much eliminates 'Adventurers" with stats of 2 or 3 that made them useless in high stress situations i.e. if stats were St, Dx or IQ when a saving roll needed.
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Old March 17th, 2015, 11:55 AM
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The stats thing was my doing, though I may have subconsciously nicked it from some other system or version I played in the distant past.

I have no information about why Liftoff did not get funded - I did what I was contracted to do - which was write - and left the business stuff to 13Mann.

My current Traveller endeavour is a series of supplements for Mongoose. One of which just went up for sale a few minutes ago....
Old March 18th, 2015, 12:12 AM
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I just thought it was a variant on what we've done for D&D and Traveller for years...

D&D games were roll 24D, drop lowest 6, arrange for flavor, and Traveller was roll 18D, drop lowest 6, arrange for flavor. Although your system did sound familiar, like from an issue of a fanzine like Imperium Staple, Third Imperium or even Tidewater Traveller Times.
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Old March 18th, 2015, 10:10 AM
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I don't play D&D (not since 1984 or so), so I'm not familar with that. I think I was influenced by a variant system for RQ I saw a long time ago, but truly I don't know where the original idea came from. It was just something in my head under 'always been an option'. Or maybe something from T4? I dunno.

Wherever it came from, it works quite well.
Old March 18th, 2015, 08:10 PM
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So, what if there was a Book Zero for T5?

Use a character generation system like the Liftoff product used, with Army, Navy, Merchants, Scouts, Nobles, and Others represented.

Add in task resolution, an abbreviated version of combat, basic mainworld generation, and an equipment section. Put it in a book, like both GDW and Mongoose did. Price it at whatever the cost is to print. (Five bucks?) (Offer it as a download on Drive-thru, too.)

Here's where we go different. The following parts are in a PDF only download (the Referee Package): "how to run a game", "introductory adventure" (with combat maps), character tokens, and deck plans for a Type S, a Type A, and a 50T Cutter. (The tokens and the deck plans and the combat maps are supposed to be printed on cardstock, not regular paper.) Maybe add a one page space battle ruleset, and an aid sheet for task resolution and another for combat. That all sells for ten bucks. (If it was worth it, a hardcopy could probably be made for fifteen bucks.)

If someone kickstarted that, I'd pay 15 bucks to support it, especially if it was (a) T5, and (b) gave the whole kit and caboodle if it's successful. Heck, for five extra bucks, I'd bump to that level if it gave some more ship plans and perhaps added a starter subsector map and a booklet for the worlds in the subsector.

Okay. Start tossing rocks.
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Old April 4th, 2015, 06:42 PM
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Liftoff as an idea was superb, and similar products for D&D have been very successful. However anyone could see from the material being presented that it wasnt the same quality as the D&D Starter Sets and didnt include the things people would want to see from a Traveller starter set like a couple of early adventures, some creature/crew/ship tokens and a battle mat for ground and space battles, and limited sand box rules to allow users to create simple games without recourse to the main Mongoose rules, or more complex games with use of the main Mongoose rulesbook.
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Old April 5th, 2015, 02:12 AM
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Actually, the plan was to include all that stuff.

The sample adventure was only one of six or seven;

plenty of play aids, in colour

The rules were still too complex and needed editing right down, but remember it was all draft and all free for playtest and feedback purposes.
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Old August 29th, 2016, 10:05 AM
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A serious shame this didn't work out, and from the reasons I've read here and a few I can put together myself it's not a shock.

Getting a version that's specifically designed to ramp up new/young player is ( I believe ) crucial to the future of any RPG. This on-ramp has to be compelling in its look and feel, easy enough to grok, has to tease about the expansion capabilities of the full game, have a clear body of support materials and very little errata necessary, and it should be designed with a serious factor of "delight" so that news and bits of it gets shared.

Because of my day job, I strongly believe this delight factor needs to be included in the minimum viable product, anything that ships; it's not an option, a "nice to have," or something you'll do in the next version. We'll all buy it regardless. What will make new players buy it?

That'd be key.
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Old August 29th, 2016, 12:15 PM
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What will make new players buy it?
write an ap?
Old August 29th, 2016, 12:40 PM
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An app, or a suite of them, would certainly help. The idea of not doing it all by hand might be anathema to people who "came up" doing it all by hand... but imagine if The new player ( or Referee ) had a suite of apps that were able to do some of the crunchier bits on the fly:

- Here's an NPC, at the touch of a button. And again -touch-, and again -touch-
- Some aspects of a downport, and now saved for later, so the referee can copy them into the session journal
- Here's a "typical" scout loadout for equipment, given my cash on hand and a few set parameters like "eclectic" and "travels light"
- Here's a variant of the Free Trader, all specs, at the touch of a button. Not quite right? Touch the button again, here's another one. Wanna swap cargo space for something else? touch this button here. There we go; perfect to go with on a moment's notice
- This is our ongoing combat sequence, right here. Looks like you're up
- I specify a few parameters, including this particular homeworld, and tap this button for a random compatible sophont, tweakable, savable, exportable, post-able.

And so on.

I think it's possible to have a successful game without supporting apps, but if your goal is adoption by younger people, a tech-savvy generation to be sure, it's probably helpful to have some apps that play by the rules and make the "harder" stuff less-hard, for people that don't enjoy that particular part of what the game can offer.

Tablet compatibility would be sweet, but mobile device works. Non-native web app is doable, and while a native app gives you more flexibility, it might be cost-prohibitive and not really necessary anyway.

Just thinking out loud. Definitely don't mean to hijack.
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