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  #21  
Old January 22nd, 2014, 01:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aramis View Post
Yep... has a bit of a mad science vibe, due to both sail rigging and a boiler and prop system. It's the first time i've seen a kite-rigged zeppelin design.
Well, McBean is a mad scientist/inventor, isn't he?

I guess some form of deck must be set on the top of the hydrogen bag (and some way to reach it1) to hold the masts and the solar bolier, both of which should be foldable (in Canal Priests of Mars is described how the Solar mirror is, I guess masts would be even easier).

See that any airship with a solar boiler have similar problems, though I agree the rigging further complicates it...

I was also tinkering with the idea of making it an ethre sail ship, but it will make it even more complex...
Note 1: I'd suggest a ladder column from the basket to the top, through the hydrogen bag, as the best way for it.
In fact, this is an adaptation of an hybrid gunboat I designed years ago for its use in mars by a Red Captain, using the sails to extend its endurance. Of course, the fact that it was a liftwood (not hydrogen) flyer with no extra-atmospheric capability (so no solar boiler nor ether propeller) eased it a bit...

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Originally Posted by aramis View Post
It's the first time i've seen a kite-rigged zeppelin design.
I hope McBean doesn't hear you calling this German name to his airship (remember, politeness is not his strong point )
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Last edited by McPerth; January 22nd, 2014 at 03:11 PM.. Reason: typos
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  #22  
Old January 22nd, 2014, 02:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aramis View Post
I'll suggest going to size 4 on the solar boiler and ether prop, in order to get 2 Million Miles Per Day, but that would require an Engineer. (Noting that an NPC engineer is no big issue.)
According to my numbers, the 4 PP propeller, with an efficiency of 35 (as reliability is 5) gives me a speed of 4*35/200=0.7 Million Miles/day...

Have I somewhat miscalculated it?
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  #23  
Old January 22nd, 2014, 02:23 PM
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The sails could as easily be hung so that they run below the gasbag.

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Originally Posted by McPerth View Post
According to my numbers, the 4 PP propeller, with an efficiency of 35 (as reliability is 5) gives me a speed of 4*35/200=0.7 Million Miles/day...

Have I somewhat miscalculated it?
Looks about right.

Note that hiring a temp crew should be about 3/6 per day for petty officers, and 2/- for able bodies. This is half a shilling more per day than the Navy pays.

Note that total crew would be
Master (Officer)
Helmsman (Petty Officer)
2 Engineers (Able) - only the largest engine mounted needs engineers. And that's, using the corebook rates, at half the power rating rounded down. (Page 83)
2 topmen (able)
2 gunners (able)

Her skeleton should be a helmsman and an engineer.
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Last edited by aramis; January 22nd, 2014 at 02:34 PM..
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  #24  
Old January 22nd, 2014, 02:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aramis View Post
The sails could as easily be hung so that they run below the gasbag.
I thought about that, but I wonder how could the ship land then...

In civilized places, mostly if kites are used (so Mars), I guess there are towers just for this pourpose in the airports, but in Earth I don't expect them, and less so for an exploratory mision to uncivilized places...

Of course, again, unless they may be folded and the steam engine is used for landings/take offs, or if they go laterally to the basket (but that would make the guns useless for boardside)...

And the problem of the solar boiler remains, as I've lways seen it at te top of the ether flyers...

BTW, reviewing the rules. As the ship weight is now 163 tons (3 under the 166 that would allow it to reach VHigh alttitude, that I still see as necessary), could I add a conservatory (2 tons, 200 ) to make it more confortable for the long trip (sorry for not having thought about it before)?
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  #25  
Old January 22nd, 2014, 02:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aramis View Post
Note that hiring a temp crew should be about 3/6 per day for petty officers, and 2/- for able bodies. This is half a shilling more per day than the Navy pays.

Note that total crew would be
Master (Officer)
Helmsman (Petty Officer)
2 Engineers (Able) - only the largest engine mounted needs engineers. And that's, using the corebook rates, at half the power rating rounded down. (Page 83)
2 topmen (able)
2 gunners (able)

Her skeleton should be a helmsman and an engineer.
You forgot 2 deckhands....

So, hiring a full crew (Engineers, topmen, deckhands and helmsman, gunners excluded, as we're in a civilized and patroled area) will cost 15/6 a day, while a skeleton one would cost 5/6 a day. At speeds shown in the rules (300 miles/day with steam engine, 200-400 by sails), it will take about 2 days to go from Scotland to London...

OTOH, if I can sell find passengers, I could charge them (at standard rates) 10/- each a day. Let's asume I hire 2 stewards (using the empty gunners staterooms) to care for them while making this service, at 4/- a day (able's fares)...

And maybe I could carry some cargo (e.g. Scottish whool or whisky) to London...
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  #26  
Old January 22nd, 2014, 03:17 PM
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If you paid for 200T hydrogen lift, then you can get to VH with 200T capacity.

Looking at the core rulebook sequence...
hydrogen should be (200-20)*50 = 9000
The Cloudships sequence doesn't include hydrogen.
The IC&EF sequence provides Hull Size x 5000, so that should be 10000

Boiler crew is half, round down, the rating of the largest power plant. Military vessels (ie, IC&EF designs) would use the highest single plant, but not halved.

Forced Draft Boilers are 2000/power according to IC&EF, C&G, and SG, so we'll use the half cost core book ones, at 600 for the boiler and 400 for the airscrew per power.

Corrections in bold.
ItemTonsCrew
Hull 200T hydrogen900002 (deckhands)Hull Size 2
Armor 120020none
Control Roomfree12 (bridge)
Solar boiler Power 5*102 (engineering)
Ether propeller Power 4*4noneReliability 5 = 0.35 Eff
Rigging (as kite)1200202 (topmen)
Forced Draught boiler(size 2)2000100 (engineers)Includes Airscrews
Coal bunker010none100/2=50 days
2 x 6pdr HRC440302 (gunners)
Laboratory20003none
4 passengers8010none
Cargo072none
Totals1492020013

Space Speed = 4*0.35/2= 0.7MM/D

Note that if only using 150 tons, the cost of lift can be reduced, and the speeds increased. IC&EF explicitly allows fractional hull sizes.

Smaller version -
ItemTonsCrew
Hull 150T hydrogen650001 (deckhands)Hull Size 1.5
Armor 115015none
Control Roomfree12 (bridge)
Solar boiler Power 5*102 (engineering)
Ether propeller Power 4*4noneReliability 5 = 0.35 Eff
Rigging (as kite)900152 (topmen)
Forced Draught boiler(size 2)2000100 (engineers)Includes Airscrews
Coal bunker010none100/2=50 days
2 x 6pdr HRC440302 (gunners)
Laboratory20003none
4 passengers8010none
Cargo0 42 none
Totals1207015013

Speed = 4*0.35/1.5 = .93 MM/D
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Wil Hostman 0602 C539857-9 S A724
OTU: 95% 3i an+ au+ br- cpu dt f+ fs++ ge ih- inf j jf+ jm+ jt+ ls- n= nc+ pi+ pp-- tp+ tr+ tv- vi-- xb+-
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  #27  
Old January 22nd, 2014, 03:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aramis View Post
If you paid for 200T hydrogen lift, then you can get to VH with 200T capacity.
I used the assumptions on C&G where the ration from lift to tonnage must be 1.2 (so about 81 tons/hull number) to reach VHigh...

You're right in your numbers, I took some of them wrong. Sorry about that...

I like the 150 ton. If allowed, I'd add the conservatory to it (lowering cargo to 40 tons and raising the price by 200 ).

As C&G, the coal bunker comes in size, each representing 10 tons, and endurance is 10*size/ES, so, endurance would be 5 days.

Atmospheric speed would be (according to C&G) ES*6/HS, with any number over 6 being halved. So it would be 2*6/1.5 = 8. Halving the portion over 6, it would be 6 + 2/2 = 7

Crew would be 9, not 13 (1 deckhand, 2 bridge, 2 engineers, 2 tompen, 2 gunners)

Quote:
Originally Posted by aramis View Post
Speed = 4*0.35/1.5 = .93 MM/D
As it is rounded to the nearest tenth, speed would be 0.9 MM/D
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Last edited by McPerth; January 22nd, 2014 at 03:52 PM.. Reason: Adding atmospheric speed.
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  #28  
Old January 22nd, 2014, 07:39 PM
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ItemTonsCrew
Hull 150T hydrogen650001 (deckhands)Hull Size 1.5
Armor 115015none
Control Roomfree12 (bridge)
Solar boiler Power 5*102 (engineering)
Ether propeller Power 4*4noneReliability 5 = 0.35 Eff
Rigging (as kite)900152 (topmen)
Forced Draught boiler(size 2)2000100 (engineers)Includes Airscrews
Coal bunker010none10/2=50 days
2 x 6pdr HRC440302 (gunners)
Laboratory20003none
Conservatory2002none
4 passengers8010none
Cargo0 40 none
Totals1227015013
Speed = 4*0.35/1.5 = .9 MM/D

Airspeed under boil: 6*Es/Hs (with amount ≥6 halved) = 6*2/1.5=12/1.5=8, which reduces to 7. She's FAST under boil.... that's 35kts. A 10 hour steam day is 350 NM...

The arcs of the HRC's need to be determined. One can be an underside turret; one or both can be 180 arc pivots.
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Archduke of Sylea (CORE 2118)
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IMTU ct+ tm++ tne tg-- tt+ tmo+ t4- t20+ to ru+ ge+ 3i+ c+ jt au ls pi+ ta he+ st+
Wil Hostman 0602 C539857-9 S A724
OTU: 95% 3i an+ au+ br- cpu dt f+ fs++ ge ih- inf j jf+ jm+ jt+ ls- n= nc+ pi+ pp-- tp+ tr+ tv- vi-- xb+-
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  #29  
Old January 23rd, 2014, 07:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aramis View Post
Airspeed under boil: 6*Es/Hs (with amount ≥6 halved) = 6*2/1.5=12/1.5=8, which reduces to 7. She's FAST under boil.... that's 35kts. A 10 hour steam day is 350 NM...
I understand this would be combat speed, with cruising speed being lower, let's say (to make numbers easy) 20 kts.

Quote:
Originally Posted by aramis View Post
The arcs of the HRC's need to be determined. One can be an underside turret; one or both can be 180 arc pivots.
Form Rules book, page 85:

Quote:
It is nearly imposible for an inventor to obtain or mount wide variety of naval ordnance in sophisticated turret mounts and the like.
That's why I suggested the boardside balconies. If this ventral turret is allowed, It would be wonderful. The other one would be mounted on a balcony as I suggested, but forward firing (with arc of firing forward and boardsides). Of course, this would preclude the underside rigging, and would need some landing pylons (and probably a ramp for people to board/unboard the ship and cargo to be loade/unloaded).

As for rigging, I believe top rigging, with foldable (or telescopic) masts, or lateral rigging (if the guns are not in lateral balconies) make it a more "Verne-like" invention...
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  #30  
Old January 23rd, 2014, 11:36 AM
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Twin side mounts, then? each 180. If you got 6# HRC's, then odds are, you have the connections for passable turrets. The 6# is a 57mm rotary cannon - not "lightweight" gear. (Most of the weight is the traverse gear and gunner quarters.) If you like, we can define that the turrets are actually pintels, and the gun is fully exterior... (Aramis is now envisioning gunners in ethersuits...)

Cruise speed is typically 60% of flank; 0.6*35 = 21kts, but for single shift runs, flank speed should be maintainable. And an engineer should be able to eke out an extra 10% over flank, for emergency speed.
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IMTU ct+ tm++ tne tg-- tt+ tmo+ t4- t20+ to ru+ ge+ 3i+ c+ jt au ls pi+ ta he+ st+
Wil Hostman 0602 C539857-9 S A724
OTU: 95% 3i an+ au+ br- cpu dt f+ fs++ ge ih- inf j jf+ jm+ jt+ ls- n= nc+ pi+ pp-- tp+ tr+ tv- vi-- xb+-
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