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  #11  
Old May 14th, 2013, 01:28 PM
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I was wonder that also.

I was thinking small side 400 tons
ave 600 tons
upper end 800- 900 tons

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  #12  
Old May 14th, 2013, 10:18 PM
warwizard warwizard is offline
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Even at Jump 4 I have something like 63% of the ship available for controls and mission spaces

10 tons per person to avoid SAN checks
5 tons per console to avoid mishaps
4 tons for a lab, 4 scholars in different diciplines = 4 labs to my mind.
I saw some folks wanted sub craft that really eats up the tonnages fast, the ship is able to go nearly anywhere, it will not be stuck in orbit cause it can't land.

If you really need more volume I can attach a sub hull or pod to bring the hull + pods+ sub hulls up to no more than 1249 tons if I increase the drive to letter F, course lugging all that volume will drop it to jump 1. (Drive F's drop to J-4 when the ship gains that last ton to become hull C, so that could have been planned for)

So let's have a conversation about what the team is looking for in a ship.

How many Player Characters?
How many NPC's?
How much lab space per scholar?
What capabilities must be provided?
Frontier Refuelling
Orbit to surface interface
Sensors of what quality and range and type
What are the personal transport off the ship requirements?
What self defense requirements do you have?

I want Each PC to answer these questions so that I can meet the group's needs.
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His Grace Duke of Glisten by the hand of his IM Strephon in 1116.

IMTU tc !23 mgt- mt+ TNE+ T4++ T20- T5 ?T5LBB ?tp tg-- ?th ?to ru ge++ !3i+ c++ jt- au+ ls- pi+,-- ta- he+ ?kk ?hi as dr ?ith ?vr ?ne vg+ So++ Zh- Vi-- da Sy
*all non So humaniti are much closer related to Homo Nethanderalis than are So, and are immediately recognizable to So as "cavemen" complete with fur and the other morphological characteristics that were unimportant to Grandfather's need for a better servant
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  #13  
Old May 14th, 2013, 10:55 PM
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Default Sciency stuff

The lab people may want larger lab spaces. Best possible lab equipment for possible dissections, powerful microscopes, centrifuges, mass spectrometers, alloy analyzers, etc

Do we have a bank of low births for emergencies?

Medical Bay? Suggest 10 tons with State of the Art equipment.

Exploration purposes dictate Best quality longest ranged sensor suite.

Stealth masking?

Weapons suite? I hate having to kill people in the hallways. Blood just doesn't come completely out of the carpet, repainting is a bore. Just sayin'
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  #14  
Old May 15th, 2013, 12:13 AM
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Jin is a biologist and biologicist, and so a biology lab would be what he has a use for and would look for in a ship, but after checking on the other folks, perhaps we don't need as much actual lab space as I first thought, so the smaller ship might be fine, and would certainly be easier to handle with a smaller actual crew. Also, while Jin was a scholar and scientist, the bulk of his former career life and his skill list are actually in the various facets of operating a passenger star ship, so other than maybe a pair of labs, I'd say common areas and amenities suitable for higher class passengers for extended periods would be required as well. Also emergency low berths are a good idea, and I second the call for a good medical facility.
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  #15  
Old May 15th, 2013, 01:45 AM
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Arrow [Referee] Refueling Restrictions.

Quote:
Originally Posted by warwizard View Post
Even at Jump 4 I have something like 63% of the ship available for controls and mission spaces

10 tons per person to avoid SAN checks
5 tons per console to avoid mishaps
4 tons for a lab, 4 scholars in different diciplines = 4 labs to my mind.
I saw some folks wanted sub craft that really eats up the tonnages fast, the ship is able to go nearly anywhere, it will not be stuck in orbit cause it can't land.

If you really need more volume I can attach a sub hull or pod to bring the hull + pods+ sub hulls up to no more than 1249 tons if I increase the drive to letter F, course lugging all that volume will drop it to jump 1. (Drive F's drop to J-4 when the ship gains that last ton to become hull C, so that could have been planned for)

So let's have a conversation about what the team is looking for in a ship.

How many Player Characters?
How many NPC's?
How much lab space per scholar?
What capabilities must be provided?
Frontier Refuelling
Orbit to surface interface
Sensors of what quality and range and type
What are the personal transport off the ship requirements?
What self defense requirements do you have?

I want Each PC to answer these questions so that I can meet the group's needs.
As far as Frontier Refueling, that is generally moderated at the National (System) level and most see unregistered, unplanned, unregulated, unprofitable frontier refueling as outright unlawful with all the fun that comes with that.

Fair Warning: The Imperium totally enforces Warrants for Arrest for the Crime of Resource Theft (Capital).

The rest sounds like shipwright and player territory to me.
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  #16  
Old May 15th, 2013, 02:39 AM
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Default Frontier Refuelling

It's a capability fitting for visiting unpopulated systems for scientific investigations.

I rather think the ship would see taking a drink of water and having that called a crime carying the death penalty as quite beyond conceptualization. Having been evolved in oceans on a water world, grew up in oceans, and needs water for it's metabolic processes. Organic fuel tanks and all. Rather like the North American Indian's concept of natural resourses (the nomadic tribes at least) nobody owns an ocean.

There may be some contract language that humans have with Ships to avoid such misunderstandings one of your 10,000 year contracts perhaps?
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His Grace Duke of Glisten by the hand of his IM Strephon in 1116.

IMTU tc !23 mgt- mt+ TNE+ T4++ T20- T5 ?T5LBB ?tp tg-- ?th ?to ru ge++ !3i+ c++ jt- au+ ls- pi+,-- ta- he+ ?kk ?hi as dr ?ith ?vr ?ne vg+ So++ Zh- Vi-- da Sy
*all non So humaniti are much closer related to Homo Nethanderalis than are So, and are immediately recognizable to So as "cavemen" complete with fur and the other morphological characteristics that were unimportant to Grandfather's need for a better servant
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  #17  
Old May 15th, 2013, 03:02 AM
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Arrow [Referee] When In Danger of Loss of Life or Limb.

Quote:
Originally Posted by warwizard View Post
It's a capability fitting for visiting unpopulated systems for scientific investigations.

I rather think the ship would see taking a drink of water and having that called a crime carying the death penalty as quite beyond conceptualization. Having been evolved in oceans on a water world, grew up in oceans, and needs water for it's metabolic processes. Organic fuel tanks and all. Rather like the North American Indian's concept of natural resourses (the nomadic tribes at least) nobody owns an ocean.

There may be some contract language that humans have with Ships to avoid such misunderstandings one of your 10,000 year contracts perhaps?
When In Danger of Loss of Life or Limb.

Within the Imperium this is a recognized right and in this case may include an exception with attendant riders and conditions understanding that the Ship is a living being and does have the right to preserve itself. As a 10,000 Contract, good luck. Not saying it can't be done but the last one created was the "Treaty of Submission and Armistice said to have ended the Great War that destroyed the formerly glorious Fifth Imperium. Most folks don't want to touch them and the practice of extreme long term contract law is very, very specialized. Some say that such contracts are still made, but in secret by the Great and Elder Powers of the Imperiums. You know the old "secret masters" conspiracy which spread to space with its endless unknowns and tiny Man alone among the stars. Horrible and lasting prices are asked and such costs are always paid.

The first step would be to do some research.
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Seventh Captain of the Imperial Guard, CO (O3) D Trp/3 Sqdn/4518th LIR,
Duke of Sinta, Count Smoug, Viscount Alell, Musayid, & Nii Khu, Marquis Malory & Phlume, Baron Donu-na,
Knight Retainer of the Emperor for Salla, Inarli, & Bhuur,
Knight Retainer of the Baron Jacha, Knight Retainer of the Baronet Kiind,
Knight of the Third Imperium for Trane,
Travellers' Aid Society Member #0543.

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  #18  
Old May 15th, 2013, 03:06 AM
warwizard warwizard is offline
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If we want to go with drive F's instead of D's it's NEARLY free.
Drive D: Jump Drive (25/4 *1.1 min 10) = 10 m-drive (7/4 *.8 min 2) = 2 PPlant = 13/4 *.9 min 4 = 4 Cost 36 MCr

Drive F: Jump Drive (35/4 *1.1 min 10) = 10 m-drive (11/4 *.8 min 2) = 2.2 PPlant = 19/4 *.9 min 4 = 4.275 Cost 37.35 MCr

so for 1.75 MCr and 1/2 ton we can have drive F's installed instead of drive D's

Drive F (ULT) in Hull B P1 =6 P2 = 8 TL limit J = 4, P = 6, M = 8 so it would be J-4, P6, M-6

Drive F (ULT) in Hull C P1=4 P2 = 5 TL limit J=4 , so it would be J-4, P-5, M-5.
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His Grace Duke of Glisten by the hand of his IM Strephon in 1116.

IMTU tc !23 mgt- mt+ TNE+ T4++ T20- T5 ?T5LBB ?tp tg-- ?th ?to ru ge++ !3i+ c++ jt- au+ ls- pi+,-- ta- he+ ?kk ?hi as dr ?ith ?vr ?ne vg+ So++ Zh- Vi-- da Sy
*all non So humaniti are much closer related to Homo Nethanderalis than are So, and are immediately recognizable to So as "cavemen" complete with fur and the other morphological characteristics that were unimportant to Grandfather's need for a better servant
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  #19  
Old May 15th, 2013, 03:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Magnus von Thornwood View Post
When In Danger of Loss of Life or Limb.

Within the Imperium this is a recognized right and in this case may include an exception with attendant riders and conditions understanding that the Ship is a living being and does have the right to preserve itself. As a 10,000 Contract, good luck. Not saying it can't be done but the last one created was the "Treaty of Submission and Armistice said to have ended the Great War that destroyed the formerly glorious Fifth Imperium. Most folks don't want to touch them and the practice of extreme long term contract law is very, very specialized. Some say that such contracts are still made, but in secret by the Great and Elder Powers of the Imperiums. You know the old "secret masters" conspiracy which spread to space with its endless unknowns and tiny Man alone among the stars. Horrible and lasting prices are asked and such costs are always paid.

The first step would be to do some research.
Well perhaps not a 10,000 year contract, though a "lifetime" contract for this Ship may well exceed 10,000 years. So let's explore the contract between the Ship and DDB shall we.

Synopsis of the agreement (Draft version):
In exchange for genetic modifications and cybernetic implants the Ship agrees to assoiate with humans and be an employee of DDB, who may assign the Ship's services to third parties as it sees fit.

The ship is NOT required to obey illegal orders and is required to refuse such orders. The standard illegal orders are Extinction, Genocide, Rebellion, Barraty, Piracy. If the ship willingly participates in the illegal orders listed it is in breech of contract and shall be returned to homeworld as provided by the trust fund below.

DDB agrees to maintain a trust fund by witholding a portion of the ship's pay sufficient to provide for transport back to Ship's homeworld and removal of cybernetic implants and genetic modifications and returning the ship to the world's surface in a fit condition to have normal chances in it's ecosystem.

If during the ship's service with DDB, it discovers a world with a compatible biosphere for the Ship ecology to colonize the world, the ship may call upon DDB or it's heirs and assigns for assistance in establishing a colony of Ships on this newly discovered world. The value of this assistance is not less than 5 RU as adjusted for changes in buying power, DDB may provide more than this ammount at it's discression. This section may be invoked once for each such world discovered. (DDB wants to expand production of Ships and it's intrest align's nicely with the Ship's desire to colonize other worlds.)

Ships are tried in a special court under special rules. Ships are not expected to learn the laws of every world their employment may take them to, but there is a general set of rules the ships understand and and agree to. Here in referenced by attachment and incoporated into this agreement.

Riders:
This Ship has a non-combatant rider: This Ship may not be assigned to provide services as a warship. Any weaponry installed is for self defense.
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His Grace Duke of Glisten by the hand of his IM Strephon in 1116.

IMTU tc !23 mgt- mt+ TNE+ T4++ T20- T5 ?T5LBB ?tp tg-- ?th ?to ru ge++ !3i+ c++ jt- au+ ls- pi+,-- ta- he+ ?kk ?hi as dr ?ith ?vr ?ne vg+ So++ Zh- Vi-- da Sy
*all non So humaniti are much closer related to Homo Nethanderalis than are So, and are immediately recognizable to So as "cavemen" complete with fur and the other morphological characteristics that were unimportant to Grandfather's need for a better servant
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  #20  
Old May 15th, 2013, 08:25 AM
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Post Dear Citizen warwizard (shipwright/bioengineer).

Originally Posted by Citizen warwizard (shipwright/bioengineer).
DDB Responses by Advocate Daansan Thungirson, Esq. (see below)


DDB Employment Contract with the Ships species.
(Draft Agreement Version 1.2.0)


Negotiation of Terms and Conditions: Extreme Long Term Contract between two parties. (see below).

Synopsis of the agreement between the Species: [Aquatic-Atmo-Space Ship], the Natives of [Homeworld Withheld] [Native Self Name: Yet to be translated.] (hereafter "the Ships"), represented by Citizen warwizard (the Citizen's relationship other than as their representative is unknown at this time, but this firm believes him to have standing in this matter and acting in good faith on behalf of his constituent(s) till proven otherwise) and Daarnulud Design Bureaux (hereafter "DDB") who shall be investing their Power of Attorney (limited to this matter alone and no other) to Thungirson and Associates, Advocates at the High Courts Bar by Appointment to House hault-Daarnulud, The hault-Daarnulud of the Ancient and Great House of Daarnuludak.) upon the 75th day of the 158th year of the Interregnum of the Mighty Sixth Empire of ManKind of the world of Regina at [FS 1910].

Paragraph 1. Well perhaps not a 10,000 year contract, though a "lifetime" contract for this Ship may well exceed 10,000 years. So let's explore the contract between the Ship and DDB shall we.
Well, considering the data that this firm has gathered lengths of 100 to 1000 years are easily comprehendible.
Paragraph 2. In exchange for genetic modifications and cybernetic implants the Ship agrees to assoiate with humans and be an employee of DDB, who may assign the Ship's services to third parties as it sees fit.
We find this agreeable so far.
Paragraph 3. The ship is NOT required to obey illegal orders and is required to refuse such orders. The standard illegal orders are Extinction, Genocide, Rebellion, Barraty, Piracy. If the ship willingly participates in the illegal orders listed it is in breech of contract and shall be returned to homeworld as provided by the trust fund below.
Stipulated.

We would be criminal not too include this paragraph.
Paragraph 4. DDB agrees to maintain a trust fund by witholding a portion of the ship's pay sufficient to provide for transport back to Ship's homeworld and removal of cybernetic implants and genetic modifications and returning the ship to the world's surface in a fit condition to have normal chances in it's ecosystem.
This has been done before and I think we can find some mutually beneficial boilerplate for it.
Paragraph 5. If during the ship's service with DDB, it discovers a world with a compatible biosphere for the Ship ecology to colonize the world, the ship may call upon DDB or it's heirs and assigns for assistance in establishing a colony of Ships on this newly discovered world. The value of this assistance is not less than 5 RU as adjusted for changes in buying power, DDB may provide more than this ammount at it's discretion. This section may be invoked once for each such world discovered. (DDB wants to expand production of Ships and it's interest align's nicely with the Ship's desire to colonize other worlds.)
Here, I see a need for clarity. Exactly what are you proposing that involves RUs?

As to colonizing worlds, that is in the discretion of neither this firm or the party it represents. Only the Imperium can make such guaranteed offers to a Species or Individual, sir. It would be High Treason by Word and Deeds to make such a Claim and Grant to a Mainworld.

What DDB can guarantee is a fair share in the first naming rights, first landing rights, future resource rights, and/or discovery land grants. Again, I am pretty sure we can find some boilerplate to cover this too.
Paragraph 6. Ships are tried in a special court under special rules. Ships are not expected to learn the laws of every world their employment may take them to, but there is a general set of rules the ships understand and and agree to. Here in referenced by attachment and incorporated into this agreement.
We will have to address this with the Crown Courts, the Scouts, and Government House representatives present. Special courts are so frowned upon by The Honorable Lord Judges and the Citizens (though the Senate keeps plugging at it).
Paragraph 7. Rider: (non-combatant). This Ship has a non-combatant rider: This Ship may not be assigned to provide services as a warship. Any weaponry installed is for self defense.
This must be discussed as there are Flag of Origin and those Ships that are armed and flagged as Imperial Star Ships are required by High Law to engage in combat if so order by a properly commissioned and lawful commander. It gets sticky, and is probably going to evolve into a case by case base on the individuals work contract.

For Daarnulud Design Bureaux:
Your Most Sincere Servant,
Advocate Daansan Thungirson, Esq.


***

Archivist,

This is a Setting source document of historical value.

Also it is a legal document which is why I have used the little paper page icon for this post.

Titile Icons:
  • The Imperial Starburst is for Character Play or Setting information, which sometimes sadly does contain both mechanics and color.
  • I will be using the Ref's Green Arrow for mechanics stuff.
  • The Little Page is for all Legal Matters.
  • Shades is probably me talking as not-Ref.
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Laterness,
Lord Craig A. Glesner, PC,
Seventh Captain of the Imperial Guard, CO (O3) D Trp/3 Sqdn/4518th LIR,
Duke of Sinta, Count Smoug, Viscount Alell, Musayid, & Nii Khu, Marquis Malory & Phlume, Baron Donu-na,
Knight Retainer of the Emperor for Salla, Inarli, & Bhuur,
Knight Retainer of the Baron Jacha, Knight Retainer of the Baronet Kiind,
Knight of the Third Imperium for Trane,
Travellers' Aid Society Member #0543.

Thornwood-Daarnulud LLC

Last edited by Magnus von Thornwood; May 15th, 2013 at 08:28 AM.. Reason: Shades. format, what else.
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