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In My Traveller Universe Detail what parts of Traveller you do (or don't) use in your campaign.

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  #71  
Old October 23rd, 2020, 02:41 AM
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The whole dematerialize-rematerialize notion is the least scientific of all scifi, even beyond time travel.

The material thing is, by it's very nature, the most compact form of information about the thing. Each cell is so ridiculously complex that a vast number of molecules in it (perhaps the majority) have yet to be analyzed. You can't analyze every cell and transmit that data (trillions of cells each greater than the sum of human knowledge) nearly instantaneously, much less process that data and reconstruct the whole (from what stock?) in a fraction of a second.

Just sayin' ...
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  #72  
Old October 23rd, 2020, 05:25 AM
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Originally Posted by Straybow View Post
The whole dematerialize-rematerialize notion is the least scientific of all scifi, even beyond time travel.

The material thing is, by it's very nature, the most compact form of information about the thing. Each cell is so ridiculously complex that a vast number of molecules in it (perhaps the majority) have yet to be analyzed. You can't analyze every cell and transmit that data (trillions of cells each greater than the sum of human knowledge) nearly instantaneously, much less process that data and reconstruct the whole (from what stock?) in a fraction of a second.

Just sayin' ...

I could have sworn the new local fiber optic offerings promised that sort of throughput.
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  #73  
Old October 25th, 2020, 09:36 AM
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You don't have to reproduce every subatomic particle! The important information for rebuilding a human being is at the cellular level, and that contains a good deal less information that the positioning and state of every single electron, proton, and neutron. You get the cells in the right positions with the right connections in the human brain and you can reproduce the person with all his thoughts, feelings, and memories, the rest of the person is not as important, all he needs is functioning limbs and organs, which nature takes care of according to our genetic code. Ever see a pair of identical twins? That is how nature does it, so basically we make a cellular copy of your brain and we clone the rest of your body, you will have a different set of finger prints, but who cares? For other objects you use a 3D printer and what GURPS calls a minifac, which is a miniature factory that assembles all the parts that you 3D print.
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  #74  
Old October 25th, 2020, 02:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Werner View Post
You don't have to reproduce every subatomic particle! The important information for rebuilding a human being is at the cellular level,
Big snip. It doesn't work for two main reasons. 1: E=MC2 (btw, if the ship ran low on energy/fuel just chuck a crew member into the dematerializer ...) and 2: when you separate every particle of a persons body they die. EVERY TIME. Otherwise all those ST deaths caused by injury would be reversible by just "beaning in" the missing/damaged body parts
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Old October 25th, 2020, 02:46 PM
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Or just replicating them from the save file.

You did make a backup, didn't you?
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  #76  
Old October 25th, 2020, 04:45 PM
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Or cloned.
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  #77  
Old October 25th, 2020, 06:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Proneutron View Post
Big snip. It doesn't work for two main reasons. 1: E=MC2 (btw, if the ship ran low on energy/fuel just chuck a crew member into the dematerializer ...) and 2: when you separate every particle of a persons body they die. EVERY TIME. Otherwise all those ST deaths caused by injury would be reversible by just "beaning in" the missing/damaged body parts
Does a person have a soul or software? Battlestar Galactica raised that question, but it seems to me that souls are immaterial and so is information, how do you know the two aren't the same thing?

If you have the information to recreate someone's mind and the material and capability to rebuild him with, how do you know it isn't the same person, as far as the recreated person is concerned, he is that same person, as he has the same memories as the original, as far has he knows, his soul must have migrated from the old body to the new. You don't have to convert matter into energy and energy back into matter to recreate him, just transmit the information and use local atoms to reconstruct him, I am sure atoms were pretty much the same millions of years ago as they are today, if we could transmit information about ourselves into the past, we could rebuild ourselves in the past, we would wake up there with memories of the future.
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  #78  
Old October 25th, 2020, 10:14 PM
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Originally Posted by Werner View Post

If you have the information to recreate someone's mind and the material and capability to rebuild him with, how do you know it isn't the same person,
Not sure but the ORIGINAL person knows

But anyway, E=MC2 prohibits that magic process that was started because of a low production budget. Take away transporters and replicators and it works much better.
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  #79  
Old October 26th, 2020, 06:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Werner View Post
You don't have to reproduce every subatomic particle! The important information for rebuilding a human being is at the cellular level, and that contains a good deal less information that the positioning and state of every single electron, proton, and neutron. You get the cells in the right positions with the right connections in the human brain and you can reproduce the person with all his thoughts, feelings, and memories, the rest of the person is not as important, all he needs is functioning limbs and organs, which nature takes care of according to our genetic code. Ever see a pair of identical twins? That is how nature does it, so basically we make a cellular copy of your brain and we clone the rest of your body, you will have a different set of finger prints, but who cares? For other objects you use a 3D printer and what GURPS calls a minifac, which is a miniature factory that assembles all the parts that you 3D print.
That is (early to mid) 20th century thinking. Mechanical stuff could well do with cell templates when recreated. Bone, ligament/tendon, muscle, skin. Perhaps cells in liver, kidney, and some other organs would be nonspecific enough to go be template.

Cellular machinery is far more complex than envisioned even as recently as the 1980s. The state of cells, particularly neurons, could be highly dependent on the molecular stuff that we don't really understand. We don't have a good grasp on how neurons function as a network in the brain. For that you'd need to map all the molecules. That's the stage where the molecule is the simplest form of expressing the data.

But it doesn't matter. There still isn't a way to reconstruct a macroscopic object molecule by molecule in a span of seconds.

I do remember the scene from Fifth Element when they had little more than a small sample of flesh and they reconstructed her in a kind of cellular printer. That's space opera that doesn't take itself seriously.
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Old October 26th, 2020, 10:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Werner View Post
You don't have to reproduce every subatomic particle! The important information for rebuilding a human being is at the cellular level
To reproduce a human with the same genetic profile as Nathan Brazil, no problem. Grab that pound of flesh, find the DNA, disintegrate the unnecessary waste material, transmit. At the receiving end, go backwards medically as it were to determine the undifferentiated stem cells using the transmitted DNA as a blueprint, then apply some process to differentiate the cells. Cool you now have a new blank Nathan Brazil and given a chance his seed will infest the world. (its the season )

But don't you have to scan the ENTIRE brain in some manner to get the Nathan Brazil neuron connections that generate/store memories? That way you get the specific Nathan Brazil whose love of Traveller, Dark Shadows and Industrial Music shapes him? Or you might get the one that likes My Little Pony instead. (Well the Kkree are close yes?)
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